Digital TV quality
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Joerg
Guest
Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 9:35 am    Post subject: Digital TV quality Reply with quote
Hello Folks,

I just had the 'pleasure' to see digital cable at a neighbors house,
just because the TV happened to be on when we were there. The image was
'pixely' and kind of ok when viewed from the usual distance.

However, the real disappointment came during a car ad. The usual, a
sporty car driven around a race track. There were huge lags in the
movement and the rear of the car was gravely distorted. It looked as if
the data path was choking.

Is this what we are going to get once the analog channels are turned off?

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

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JustMe
Guest
Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 9:35 am    Post subject: Re: Digital TV quality Reply with quote
Yup.

Too many channels squeezed into the pipe and a set top box made by the
lowest bidder. It sure can look awful.


"Joerg" <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote in message
news:pn8mf.24763$BZ5.22600@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
Quote:
Hello Folks,

I just had the 'pleasure' to see digital cable at a neighbors house, just
because the TV happened to be on when we were there. The image was
'pixely' and kind of ok when viewed from the usual distance.

However, the real disappointment came during a car ad. The usual, a sporty
car driven around a race track. There were huge lags in the movement and
the rear of the car was gravely distorted. It looked as if the data path
was choking.

Is this what we are going to get once the analog channels are turned off?

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com
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Frithiof Andreas Jensen
Guest
Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 9:35 am    Post subject: Re: Digital TV quality Reply with quote
"Joerg" <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> skrev i en meddelelse
news:pn8mf.24763$BZ5.22600@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...

Quote:
Is this what we are going to get once the analog channels are turned off?

Yup - but considering the programme material on TeeVee, it might not be a
bad thing.

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Kalman Rubinson
Guest
Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Digital TV quality Reply with quote
Of course, the problem could be due to many things other than digital
cable. Poor cabling, inappropriate option selection, mediocre
display....

Kal (pleased with his digital cabel HD)

On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 05:12:53 GMT, Joerg
<notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

Quote:
Hello Folks,

I just had the 'pleasure' to see digital cable at a neighbors house,
just because the TV happened to be on when we were there. The image was
'pixely' and kind of ok when viewed from the usual distance.

However, the real disappointment came during a car ad. The usual, a
sporty car driven around a race track. There were huge lags in the
movement and the rear of the car was gravely distorted. It looked as if
the data path was choking.

Is this what we are going to get once the analog channels are turned off?

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com
Back to top
Jim Thompson
Guest
Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Digital TV quality Reply with quote
On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 05:12:53 GMT, Joerg
<notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

Quote:
Hello Folks,

I just had the 'pleasure' to see digital cable at a neighbors house,
just because the TV happened to be on when we were there. The image was
'pixely' and kind of ok when viewed from the usual distance.

However, the real disappointment came during a car ad. The usual, a
sporty car driven around a race track. There were huge lags in the
movement and the rear of the car was gravely distorted. It looked as if
the data path was choking.

Is this what we are going to get once the analog channels are turned off?

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

I'm just an "Expanded Basic" cable user, so I have no set-top boxes...
which I totally despise.

Tell me, Joerg, I'm guessing that digital cable is going to require
set-top boxes? Or will there be TV sets that can handle it directly?

Will analog booster amplifiers (Channel Plus now in use here)
distribute the signals? Or will new equipment be needed for this
function as well?

(Before anyone jumps on my case... except for the TV set in my office,
which I bought on 9/11, I don't own a TV set newer than 12 years old,
and there are 6 sets in the house... I'm not a big follower of
state-of-the-art consumer electronics... but I like old movies on DVD
:-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
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Jim Thompson
Guest
Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Digital TV quality Reply with quote
On Fri, 9 Dec 2005 14:03:59 -0000, "john jardine"
<john@jjdesigns.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

Quote:

"Joerg" <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote in message
news:pn8mf.24763$BZ5.22600@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
[snip]
...the rear of the car was gravely distorted. It looked as if
the data path was choking.

Is this what we are going to get once the analog channels are turned off?

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

Yes Indeed!.
In the UK we've about 4 years before the analogue transmissions are switched
off. Part of the process involves softening us up with a small number of
free-to-view digital channels.
Picture quality is noticeably inferior to that of an analogue transmission
yet I've never seen any complaints.
Couldn't rent VHS videos any more, so 6 months ago had to buy a DVD player.
Found DVD picture quality is even poorer than a VHS tape, yet the DVD
industry tells me their picture quality is better!.
[snip]
Bollocks to 'em. I won't be going digital :-)
regards
john

I'm puzzled by your DVD quality problem complaint. I get excellent
results here.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
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john jardine
Guest
Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Digital TV quality Reply with quote
"Joerg" <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote in message
news:pn8mf.24763$BZ5.22600@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
Quote:
Hello Folks,

I just had the 'pleasure' to see digital cable at a neighbors house,
just because the TV happened to be on when we were there. The image was
'pixely' and kind of ok when viewed from the usual distance.

However, the real disappointment came during a car ad. The usual, a
sporty car driven around a race track. There were huge lags in the
movement and the rear of the car was gravely distorted. It looked as if
the data path was choking.

Is this what we are going to get once the analog channels are turned off?

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

Yes Indeed!.
In the UK we've about 4 years before the analogue transmissions are switched
off. Part of the process involves softening us up with a small number of
free-to-view digital channels.
Picture quality is noticeably inferior to that of an analogue transmission
yet I've never seen any complaints.
Couldn't rent VHS videos any more, so 6 months ago had to buy a DVD player.
Found DVD picture quality is even poorer than a VHS tape, yet the DVD
industry tells me their picture quality is better!.
Fitted a T.V card in the PC. Asssumed a high res' screen and dedicated
processing path etc would give superior results. Not so, picture quality is
substandard. Yet again, seen no complaints.
Mpeg or whatever the common digital factor is in these systems, has a lot to
answer for. Initially attractive as it invariably offers sharp edges and
solid colour surfaces but look for detailing and you won't find it.
Yet another case of industry money managing to herd people into assigning
value to that which does not exist.
Bollocks to 'em. I won't be going digital :-)
regards
john
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Roger Hamlett
Guest
Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Digital TV quality Reply with quote
"Jim Thompson" <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@My-Web-Site.com> wrote in
message news:p37jp1p6k1f7lg5q4mcs6pcniqevnaiipk@4ax.com...
Quote:
On Fri, 9 Dec 2005 14:03:59 -0000, "john jardine"
john@jjdesigns.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:


"Joerg" <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote in message
news:pn8mf.24763$BZ5.22600@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
[snip]
...the rear of the car was gravely distorted. It looked as if
the data path was choking.

Is this what we are going to get once the analog channels are turned
off?

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

Yes Indeed!.
In the UK we've about 4 years before the analogue transmissions are
switched
off. Part of the process involves softening us up with a small number
of
free-to-view digital channels.
Picture quality is noticeably inferior to that of an analogue
transmission
yet I've never seen any complaints.
Couldn't rent VHS videos any more, so 6 months ago had to buy a DVD
player.
Found DVD picture quality is even poorer than a VHS tape, yet the DVD
industry tells me their picture quality is better!.
[snip]
Bollocks to 'em. I won't be going digital :-)
regards
john

I'm puzzled by your DVD quality problem complaint. I get excellent
results here.
I have to agree.

Digital quality, can be excellent. Yes, the signal will broadcast using a
normal amplifier box. However every extra 'stage', will degrade the
signal, increasing the risk of pixelation.
Seriously, my current digital signals, run 'rings' round the analog
service. You can see the nose-hairs, on the presenters faces (if this is
your 'thing!), and DVD, is superb. I'd suspect first of all that the
original poster, is using the analog out on the DVD, at UHF, rather than
RGB signalling. I'd then further suspect that the DVD's output is tuned to
a frequency that is perhaps getting interference from channel 5 (a common
effect). DVD, is normally limited by the quality of the player iself, and
the set involved. I'd perhaps suspect that this is one of the cheaper DVD
players, and combined with an analog 'aerial style' connection, is giving
the poor results seen.
I have analog, Freeview, cable, and satellite. Currently satellite has the
best quality (just), unless there is odd atmospheric conditions. Cable is
a very close second, Freeview gives more tendency to pixelation, but for
80% of the time still easily beats analog.

Best Wishes
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The Cheese Machine
Guest
Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 10:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Digital TV quality Reply with quote
john jardine wrote:


Quote:
Yes Indeed!.
In the UK we've about 4 years before the analogue transmissions are
switched off. Part of the process involves softening us up with a small
number of free-to-view digital channels.
Picture quality is noticeably inferior to that of an analogue transmission
yet I've never seen any complaints.


I've noticed that Freeview colour is significantly desaturated, I presume
to preserve bandwidth.

Does digital use the same luma/chroma system as analogue?

TCM
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Kalman Rubinson
Guest
Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 12:33 am    Post subject: Re: Digital TV quality Reply with quote
On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 08:02:12 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

Quote:
Tell me, Joerg, I'm guessing that digital cable is going to require
set-top boxes? Or will there be TV sets that can handle it directly?

There are units with "cable card" that can run without STB.

Quote:
Will analog booster amplifiers (Channel Plus now in use here)
distribute the signals? Or will new equipment be needed for this
function as well?

Probably new if you want HD. My guess is that you don't.

Kal
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Rich Grise
Guest
Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 12:59 am    Post subject: Re: Digital TV quality Reply with quote
On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 17:50:46 +1100, JustMe top-posted:
Quote:
Yup.

Too many channels squeezed into the pipe and a set top box made by the
lowest bidder. It sure can look awful.

Maybe we should start supporting/patronizing the companies that buy the
ads that keep commercial, on-air TV free, "the way God intended it",
according to Dave Letterman. ;-) The ads give me time to catch up on
my reading. ;-)

And it's FREE!!!!!!!!! (well, except for the $69.95 for the analog,
off-air TV set, a one-time expense.) ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

Quote:
"Joerg" <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote in message
news:pn8mf.24763$BZ5.22600@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
Hello Folks,

I just had the 'pleasure' to see digital cable at a neighbors house, just
because the TV happened to be on when we were there. The image was
'pixely' and kind of ok when viewed from the usual distance.

However, the real disappointment came during a car ad. The usual, a sporty
car driven around a race track. There were huge lags in the movement and
the rear of the car was gravely distorted. It looked as if the data path
was choking.

Is this what we are going to get once the analog channels are turned off?

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com
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James Beck
Guest
Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 1:36 am    Post subject: Re: Digital TV quality Reply with quote
In article <pn8mf.24763$BZ5.22600@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>,
notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net says...
Quote:
Hello Folks,

I just had the 'pleasure' to see digital cable at a neighbors house,
just because the TV happened to be on when we were there. The image was
'pixely' and kind of ok when viewed from the usual distance.

However, the real disappointment came during a car ad. The usual, a
sporty car driven around a race track. There were huge lags in the
movement and the rear of the car was gravely distorted. It looked as if
the data path was choking.

Is this what we are going to get once the analog channels are turned off?

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

Just because his set, and maybe even the feed, was "digital" the source

material is usually the weak link. I have a 42" HDTV with digital cable
and let me tell you, the Discovery HD Channel is beyond belief. They
use nothing but the best quality source material and I could see the
individual scales on the reef fish during one program. But you know the
old saying GIGO.

Jim
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Pooh Bear
Guest
Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 1:36 am    Post subject: Re: Digital TV quality Reply with quote
Joerg wrote:

Quote:
Hello Folks,

I just had the 'pleasure' to see digital cable at a neighbors house,
just because the TV happened to be on when we were there. The image was
'pixely' and kind of ok when viewed from the usual distance.

However, the real disappointment came during a car ad. The usual, a
sporty car driven around a race track. There were huge lags in the
movement and the rear of the car was gravely distorted. It looked as if
the data path was choking.

Is this what we are going to get once the analog channels are turned off?

It wasn't an LCD telly was it ? They're pretty crap even on an analogue
signal.

But yes, standards are all being reduced in order to provide us with 500+
channels of shit. Digital radio uses mp3 like compression too.

Graham
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Rich Grise
Guest
Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 1:37 am    Post subject: Re: Digital TV quality Reply with quote
On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 20:01:47 +0000, Mac wrote:

Quote:
On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 05:12:53 +0000, Joerg wrote:

Hello Folks,

I just had the 'pleasure' to see digital cable at a neighbors house,
just because the TV happened to be on when we were there. The image was
'pixely' and kind of ok when viewed from the usual distance.

However, the real disappointment came during a car ad. The usual, a
sporty car driven around a race track. There were huge lags in the
movement and the rear of the car was gravely distorted. It looked as if
the data path was choking.

Is this what we are going to get once the analog channels are turned off?

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

I don't know about digital cable, but terrestrial broadcast HDTV looks
good. I have noticed a small but annoying amount of lag between audio and
video, but I hope that is just a problem with my tuner, and not a
fundamental flaw in the system.


One of the local stations, KABC, channel 7, LA, CA, is so proud of their
"HD" sky-cam that they plug the HD every time they switch to the sky-cam
feed. It looks pretty much the same; but since I need 1.25 glasses just to
see the computer screen, and 2.0 to do the newspaper's crossword puzzle,
the resolution of my 17" TV isn't really an issue. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich
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Mac
Guest
Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 1:37 am    Post subject: Re: Digital TV quality Reply with quote
On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 05:12:53 +0000, Joerg wrote:

Quote:
Hello Folks,

I just had the 'pleasure' to see digital cable at a neighbors house,
just because the TV happened to be on when we were there. The image was
'pixely' and kind of ok when viewed from the usual distance.

However, the real disappointment came during a car ad. The usual, a
sporty car driven around a race track. There were huge lags in the
movement and the rear of the car was gravely distorted. It looked as if
the data path was choking.

Is this what we are going to get once the analog channels are turned off?

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

I don't know about digital cable, but terrestrial broadcast HDTV looks
good. I have noticed a small but annoying amount of lag between audio and
video, but I hope that is just a problem with my tuner, and not a
fundamental flaw in the system.

--Mac
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