| Author |
Message |
--,
Guest
|
 Posted:
Tue Jun 07, 2005 4:36 pm Post subject:
26. NEWBEES, if possible avoid wireless alarm systems |
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They are not reliable and are dead on warning when a transmitter
operates in a condition who muzzle the wireless alarm system.
This is easily done with Radio Transmitters operating:
- ON the wireless frequency
- Saturating the receiver
- Intermodulation
- Harmonics
- Falling in the receiver bandpass
- On the IF frequency
- and more...
This is what i call basically Radio Frequency Interferences (RFI) but
in fact it covers, like you can notice above a lot more.
In essence the problems is the fact that by no way two (or more)
systems can use simultaneously the same frequency, its called
collisions, interferences and more like you see above.
The WORST is that the OWNER DON'T KNOW THAT HISS alarm system is no
longer operational, no message (20 years records hold by so called
experienced professionals: no RFI alarm).
Use a wired systems and use WIRELESS only when impossible to wire, but
BE AWARE that YOUR SAFETY IS HAZARDOUS (my system was dead during more
than one year before i found out by accident and measuring the
wireless receiver output signal content).
Muzzling can occurs permanently or occasionally, mine was permanent.
Note: So called low level mechanically (who claim them self
professional) try to let you believe that my system was dumb and/or
badly installed and they don't realize that it is an external
influences that can't be avoided whatever wireless alarm system you
have.
Its a pure radio communication problem know by telecommunication
specialists.
There is a way around for $$$ investments but that is out of reach of
a wireless alarm system.
Paul
NOTE: My system is replaced with a wired one, do the same.
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Craig B
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Jun 09, 2005 7:20 am Post subject:
Re: 26. NEWBEES, if possible avoid wireless alarm systems |
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Just an FYI, most wireless systems, if they are to meet UL requirements for
resi or commercial burg (and fire too for that matter), are REQUIRED to send
a supervisory report at least every hour which includes bits that tell the
panel the batteries are low. UL requires that this signal is sent
consistently every hour thereafter, and the battery must last for two weeks
after the initial low battery signal.
As for interference, most panels if they are worth their salt include some
sort of option which provides a time window after which, if the
above-mentioned supervision signals are not received from EVERY sensor, the
panel will notify the user and/or the central station. Thus, it looks like
somehow your system may have been sending the signals to the central station
but not alerting you.
Out of curiosity, which system was giving you this trouble?
Craig B.
<--> wrote in message news:uciba110rm8fs20unqhlo7uq934ploimrc@4ax.com...
| Quote: |
They are not reliable and are dead on warning when a transmitter
operates in a condition who muzzle the wireless alarm system.
This is easily done with Radio Transmitters operating:
- ON the wireless frequency
- Saturating the receiver
- Intermodulation
- Harmonics
- Falling in the receiver bandpass
- On the IF frequency
- and more...
This is what i call basically Radio Frequency Interferences (RFI) but
in fact it covers, like you can notice above a lot more.
In essence the problems is the fact that by no way two (or more)
systems can use simultaneously the same frequency, its called
collisions, interferences and more like you see above.
The WORST is that the OWNER DON'T KNOW THAT HISS alarm system is no
longer operational, no message (20 years records hold by so called
experienced professionals: no RFI alarm).
Use a wired systems and use WIRELESS only when impossible to wire, but
BE AWARE that YOUR SAFETY IS HAZARDOUS (my system was dead during more
than one year before i found out by accident and measuring the
wireless receiver output signal content).
Muzzling can occurs permanently or occasionally, mine was permanent.
Note: So called low level mechanically (who claim them self
professional) try to let you believe that my system was dumb and/or
badly installed and they don't realize that it is an external
influences that can't be avoided whatever wireless alarm system you
have.
Its a pure radio communication problem know by telecommunication
specialists.
There is a way around for $$$ investments but that is out of reach of
a wireless alarm system.
Paul
NOTE: My system is replaced with a wired one, do the same.
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Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Jun 09, 2005 4:35 pm Post subject:
Re: 26. NEWBEES, if possible avoid wireless alarm systems |
|
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On Wed, 8 Jun 2005 22:20:19 -0400, "Craig B" <twl3001@hotmail.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | Just an FYI, most wireless systems, if they are to meet UL requirements for
resi or commercial burg (and fire too for that matter), are REQUIRED to send
a supervisory report at least every hour which includes bits that tell the
panel the batteries are low. UL requires that this signal is sent
consistently every hour thereafter, and the battery must last for two weeks
after the initial low battery signal.
|
I'm not talking about the panel but the sensors who are blown out when
Radio Frequency Interference (RFI) occur.
| Quote: | As for interference, most panels if they are worth their salt include some
sort of option which provides a time window after which, if the
above-mentioned supervision signals are not received from EVERY sensor, the
panel will notify the user and/or the central station.
|
I like your statement "option" and what about the others, how do they
react when RFI occur and muzzle incoming sensor signals?
By the way having that marvelous option that give a warning after a
long period is of no use or not efficient for intruders.
The long period is required to avoid false alarms and it give only a
warning that the system is bingo.
It don't solve the inability of the system to give any kind of alarm
because the sensor signals are no longer valid due to that RFI
muzzling problem anyway.
| Quote: | Out of curiosity, which system was giving you this trouble?
Craig B.
|
Its not a mater of type of the system, its a mater of radio data
communication who is unreliable/unusable when an other transmitter use
and block the sensor alarm convey frequency, the problem is known by
radio tech's as RFI.
ALL wireless alarm systems go bingo when RFI occur.
It seems that you didn't read my other posts about it.
| Quote: |
--> wrote in message news:uciba110rm8fs20unqhlo7uq934ploimrc@4ax.com...
They are not reliable and are dead on warning when a transmitter
operates in a condition who muzzle the wireless alarm system.
This is easily done with Radio Transmitters operating:
- ON the wireless frequency
- Saturating the receiver
- Intermodulation
- Harmonics
- Falling in the receiver bandpass
- On the IF frequency
- and more...
This is what i call basically Radio Frequency Interferences (RFI) but
in fact it covers, like you can notice above a lot more.
In essence the problems is the fact that by no way two (or more)
systems can use simultaneously the same frequency, its called
collisions, interferences and more like you see above.
The WORST is that the OWNER DON'T KNOW THAT HISS alarm system is no
longer operational, no message (20 years records hold by so called
experienced professionals: no RFI alarm).
Use a wired systems and use WIRELESS only when impossible to wire, but
BE AWARE that YOUR SAFETY IS HAZARDOUS (my system was dead during more
than one year before i found out by accident and measuring the
wireless receiver output signal content).
Muzzling can occurs permanently or occasionally, mine was permanent.
Note: So called low level mechanically (who claim them self
professional) try to let you believe that my system was dumb and/or
badly installed and they don't realize that it is an external
influences that can't be avoided whatever wireless alarm system you
have.
Its a pure radio communication problem know by telecommunication
specialists.
There is a way around for $$$ investments but that is out of reach of
a wireless alarm system.
Paul
NOTE: My system is replaced with a wired one, do the same.
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Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Jun 10, 2005 8:36 am Post subject:
Re: 26. NEWBEES, if possible avoid wireless alarm systems |
|
|
On Thu, 9 Jun 2005 09:01:34 -0700, Crash Gordon®
<webmaster@siriussystems.INVALID> wrote:
I'm discussing with "Craig B" <twl3001@hotmail.com> not with you who
has proven already enough that you are a stupid "low level
electrician" who don't know how radio com work.
But if by any chance I'm wrong and YOU know better, please explain,
its to the benefit of all readers (so called pro's included). |
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Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Jul 02, 2005 2:31 pm Post subject:
Re: 26. NEWBEES, if possible avoid wireless alarm systems |
|
|
On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 18:23:03 +0200, --, <> wrote:
| Quote: |
They are not reliable and are dead on warning when a transmitter
operates in a condition who muzzle the wireless alarm system.
This is easily done with Radio Transmitters operating:
- ON the wireless frequency
- Saturating the receiver
- Intermodulation
- Harmonics
- Falling in the receiver bandpass
- On the IF frequency
- and more...
This is what i call basically Radio Frequency Interferences (RFI) but
in fact it covers, like you can notice above a lot more.
In essence the problems is the fact that by no way two (or more)
systems can use simultaneously the same frequency, its called
collisions, interferences and more like you see above.
The WORST is that the OWNER DON'T KNOW THAT HISS alarm system is no
longer operational, no message (20 years records hold by so called
experienced professionals: no RFI alarm).
Use a wired systems and use WIRELESS only when impossible to wire, but
BE AWARE that YOUR SAFETY IS HAZARDOUS (my system was dead during more
than one year before i found out by accident and measuring the
wireless receiver output signal content).
Muzzling can occurs permanently or occasionally, mine was permanent.
Note: So called low level mechanically (who claim them self
professional) try to let you believe that my system was dumb and/or
badly installed and they don't realize that it is an external
influences that can't be avoided whatever wireless alarm system you
have.
Its a pure radio communication problem know by telecommunication
specialists.
There is a way around for $$$ investments but that is out of reach of
a wireless alarm system.
Paul
NOTE: My system is replaced with a wired one, do the same. |
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