| Author |
Message |
Steve TR
Guest
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 Posted:
Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:35 am Post subject:
Source For LED Panels (See Design) |
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I've got a 1971 Ford LTD Convertible. These cars have eight 1157 style
bulbs in the rear to give full width tail and brake lights. That's a LOT
of current going through 30+ year old wiring, switches, and corroded sockets
when you hit the brakes.
This is what the rear end looks like: http://216.110.197.146/ltdrear.jpg
I want to install LEDs to do a couple of things. The first is to give the
"instant on" look for safety and the second is to reduce the current draw
going to the rear of the car when the tail lights are on and you have your
foot on the brakes.
I've seen the cheap bayonet replacement LED based 1157s and they suck.
Yeah, they are bright and give the LED look, but only in a single spot. You
don't have soft diffusion like you do with a filament bulb.
So, I drew up a little blueprint of what I'd like to find for my LTD. Look
at my design and tell me if such a board already exists in mass production.
(Just don't laugh at the drawings... I'm no architect! lol) If it doesn't
exist, I'd be willing to pay someone with soldering skills to create four of
these.
http://216.110.197.146/led_design.gif
The drawing is not perfect and the device doesn't need to be exactly like
this, but just a flat panel around 3 to 4" high and roughly 6-10" long. I
can disassemble my tail lamp housings and fit these panels in there with the
LED's facing the diffuser lense and I think it would give an EVENLY DIFFUSED
look to both the tail lamp lighting and the lighting when you hit the
brakes.
Ideas???
Thanks,
-Steve
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dkuhajda@locl.net
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:35 am Post subject:
Re: Source For LED Panels (See Design) |
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What is the current draw for one 1157 bulb?
What is the current draw for 19X5= 95 high output LEDS? |
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Steve TR
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:35 am Post subject:
Re: Source For LED Panels (See Design) |
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Hey, thanks for the advice. I had no idea what to search for to find the
(as I was calling it) generic printed circuit boards.
I can solder wires together, but just never have had much luck with
soldering components together. maybe I'll buy a bag full of LEDs and see
what happens...
Thanks,
-Steve
"Matt" <mattmorgan64@msn.com> wrote in message
news:1130623919.088861.267790@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | Steve -
I don't know of anywhere that mass produces something like this, but
then again I don't really know anything about replacements like this, I
just happened to run across your post.
I can see what you want, but I think you will probably need to go
through a few prototypes before you get what you want.
I'd recc. you get some breadboard, something like:
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102846&cp=&kw=breadboard&parentPage=search
or google breadboard and look for something else.
You can then cut the board to the dimensions you need, and start
prototyping.
Soldering really isn't that difficult, and this would be an ideal
project to learn that skill.
Other than that, maybe post over in sci.electronics.design for some
other ideas.
Seems like it might be a fun project, if nothing else.
Good luck,
Matt
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Steve TR
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:35 am Post subject:
Re: Source For LED Panels (See Design) |
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I appreciate the advice.
I actually already have 2 of these "drop in" bayonet replacements and while
they are okay for the "casual user" (lol) I'm quite picky and don't want to
look like the rest of the import kiddies with the funky looking LED tail
lamps only lighting up in small spots.
I'm willing to spend $$$ for this project so I can get a correct look and it
seems a flat panel filling the entire area behind the lense will work
wonderfully. Aside from someone's time, I wouldn' think it would be all
that expensive... You can buy generic blank PCBs and a box of LEDs and
solder away. I just suck at soldering. LOL
"3T39" <rubbishrat@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4363edf1$0$23278$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk...
| Quote: | Hello, 3T39!
You wrote to Steve TR on Sat, 29 Oct 2005 22:42:18 +0100:
"You can buy off the shelf replacements for the 1157's"
Sorry,
just noticed you already knew this. Dooh!
I didn't read the whole post and jumped to the wrong conclusion.
With best regards, 3T39. E-mail: rubbishrat@hotmail.com
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Steve TR
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:35 am Post subject:
Re: Source For LED Panels (See Design) |
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I appreciate the advice. As far as the legality of it, well, oh well...
I'm not worried with it enough to go look up lighting regulations, but I'm
thinking that as long as it lights up in a manner close enough to the
original, I'll be okay.
It sure can't be worse than all of the imports/ricers/etc running around
with blue/green/red/amber LEDs and those funky "Altezza" tail lamps they
think is "so cool."
-Steve
"Ken Weitzel" <kweitzel@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:McS8f.338861$1i.173284@pd7tw2no...
| Quote: |
Steve TR wrote:
I've got a 1971 Ford LTD Convertible. These cars have eight 1157 style
bulbs in the rear to give full width tail and brake lights. That's a
LOT of current going through 30+ year old wiring, switches, and corroded
sockets when you hit the brakes.
This is what the rear end looks like: http://216.110.197.146/ltdrear.jpg
I want to install LEDs to do a couple of things. The first is to give
the "instant on" look for safety and the second is to reduce the current
draw going to the rear of the car when the tail lights are on and you
have your foot on the brakes.
I've seen the cheap bayonet replacement LED based 1157s and they suck.
Yeah, they are bright and give the LED look, but only in a single spot.
You don't have soft diffusion like you do with a filament bulb.
So, I drew up a little blueprint of what I'd like to find for my LTD.
Look at my design and tell me if such a board already exists in mass
production. (Just don't laugh at the drawings... I'm no architect! lol)
If it doesn't exist, I'd be willing to pay someone with soldering skills
to create four of these.
http://216.110.197.146/led_design.gif
The drawing is not perfect and the device doesn't need to be exactly like
this, but just a flat panel around 3 to 4" high and roughly 6-10" long.
I can disassemble my tail lamp housings and fit these panels in there
with the LED's facing the diffuser lense and I think it would give an
EVENLY DIFFUSED look to both the tail lamp lighting and the lighting when
you hit the brakes.
Ideas???
Thanks,
-Steve
Hi Steve...
I'd strongly urge you to check before you install anything other than
the original incandescents. I'm very sure that most places we can't
change them without "breaking the law"
Take care.
Ken
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Rob
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:35 am Post subject:
Re: Source For LED Panels (See Design) |
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Steve TR wrote:
| Quote: | I've got a 1971 Ford LTD Convertible. These cars have eight 1157 style
bulbs in the rear to give full width tail and brake lights. That's a LOT
of current going through 30+ year old wiring, switches, and corroded sockets
when you hit the brakes.
This is what the rear end looks like: http://216.110.197.146/ltdrear.jpg
I want to install LEDs to do a couple of things. The first is to give the
"instant on" look for safety and the second is to reduce the current draw
going to the rear of the car when the tail lights are on and you have your
foot on the brakes.
I've seen the cheap bayonet replacement LED based 1157s and they suck.
Yeah, they are bright and give the LED look, but only in a single spot. You
don't have soft diffusion like you do with a filament bulb.
So, I drew up a little blueprint of what I'd like to find for my LTD. Look
at my design and tell me if such a board already exists in mass production.
(Just don't laugh at the drawings... I'm no architect! lol) If it doesn't
exist, I'd be willing to pay someone with soldering skills to create four of
these.
http://216.110.197.146/led_design.gif
The drawing is not perfect and the device doesn't need to be exactly like
this, but just a flat panel around 3 to 4" high and roughly 6-10" long. I
can disassemble my tail lamp housings and fit these panels in there with the
LED's facing the diffuser lense and I think it would give an EVENLY DIFFUSED
look to both the tail lamp lighting and the lighting when you hit the
brakes.
Ideas???
Thanks,
-Steve
Hello Steve, |
Not sure if this does exist comercially, but I'll make some up for you
if you don't find any from a comercial source.
Regards
Robert
http//notrocketscience.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/ |
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Matt
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:35 am Post subject:
Re: Source For LED Panels (See Design) |
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Steve -
I don't know of anywhere that mass produces something like this, but
then again I don't really know anything about replacements like this, I
just happened to run across your post.
I can see what you want, but I think you will probably need to go
through a few prototypes before you get what you want.
I'd recc. you get some breadboard, something like:
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102846&cp=&kw=breadboard&parentPage=search
or google breadboard and look for something else.
You can then cut the board to the dimensions you need, and start
prototyping.
Soldering really isn't that difficult, and this would be an ideal
project to learn that skill.
Other than that, maybe post over in sci.electronics.design for some
other ideas.
Seems like it might be a fun project, if nothing else.
Good luck,
Matt |
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James Sweet
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:35 am Post subject:
Re: Source For LED Panels (See Design) |
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Steve TR wrote:
| Quote: | Hey, thanks for the advice. I had no idea what to search for to find the
(as I was calling it) generic printed circuit boards.
I can solder wires together, but just never have had much luck with
soldering components together. maybe I'll buy a bag full of LEDs and see
what happens...
Thanks,
-Steve
|
Yeah, breadboard, perfboard, vectorboard, it's all pretty similar stuff.
Check out here for LEDs, I've gotten some pretty good deals.
http://www.surplusled.com/ |
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stickyfox@gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:35 am Post subject:
Re: Source For LED Panels (See Design) |
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Make sure you go for superbrites if you are replacing the lamps.
"Ordinary" red LEDs are in the 10-30 mCd range. You should be shopping
in the 500+ mCd range. If you get the 10 Cd ones you may end up with
something that will blind other motorists at night, but you can always
drop the current a little. Each LED will draw about 30-70 mA at around
2V.
You will probably end up wiring them in series-parallel, and you will
find in that case that some LEDs are a little more "greedy" than
others, and will draw all of the current off, so if you plan to use a
series-parallel arrangement, buy extras and then test all of them to
match voltages.
If you don't want to be bothered with all of that, you can just use
more resistors. |
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Matt
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:35 am Post subject:
Re: Source For LED Panels (See Design) |
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Steve,
Glad to help.
Also, google 'how to solder electronics' or something similar, you will
find plenty of tutorials to help you get started with the selction of
the proper iron and solder, (some even have viddys you can watch) and
then it's just practice.
The only other thing I would be concerned with, and it's a minor
concern, but I would guess that once you get to a final version you are
ready to install, it will be subject to the same corrosion/vibration
factors as the bulbs you are replacing; and also you will want the back
of the circuit to be well insulated from touching the car frame. I know
that the circuit boards in my washer and dryer are sealed in some sort
of epoxy to protect them from corrosion, perhaps others can point you
in a direction for some sort of epoxy or enclosure to protect the
finished product.
Matt
Hey, thanks for the advice. I had no idea what to search for to find
the
(as I was calling it) generic printed circuit boards.
I can solder wires together, but just never have had much luck with
soldering components together. maybe I'll buy a bag full of LEDs and
see
what happens...
Thanks,
-Steve |
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| Back to top |
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Steve TR
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:35 am Post subject:
Re: Source For LED Panels (See Design) |
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If I do come up with some sort of raw circuit board with hundreds of tiny
solder joints on the rear, I was going to cover it in a layer of silicone or
some sort of nonconductive insulator to help keep moisture out, although
these tail lights seal pretty tightly against weather and dust.
We shall see what happens.
"Matt" <mattmorgan64@msn.com> wrote in message
news:1130625384.479755.69490@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | Steve,
Glad to help.
Also, google 'how to solder electronics' or something similar, you will
find plenty of tutorials to help you get started with the selction of
the proper iron and solder, (some even have viddys you can watch) and
then it's just practice.
The only other thing I would be concerned with, and it's a minor
concern, but I would guess that once you get to a final version you are
ready to install, it will be subject to the same corrosion/vibration
factors as the bulbs you are replacing; and also you will want the back
of the circuit to be well insulated from touching the car frame. I know
that the circuit boards in my washer and dryer are sealed in some sort
of epoxy to protect them from corrosion, perhaps others can point you
in a direction for some sort of epoxy or enclosure to protect the
finished product.
Matt
Hey, thanks for the advice. I had no idea what to search for to find
the
(as I was calling it) generic printed circuit boards.
I can solder wires together, but just never have had much luck with
soldering components together. maybe I'll buy a bag full of LEDs and
see
what happens...
Thanks,
-Steve
|
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Clive Mitchell
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:35 am Post subject:
Re: Source For LED Panels (See Design) |
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In message <ffS8f.1284$zb5.1057@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
Steve TR <noemail@all.com> writes
| Quote: | I'm willing to spend $$$ for this project so I can get a correct look
and it seems a flat panel filling the entire area behind the lense will
work wonderfully. Aside from someone's time, I wouldn' think it would
be all that expensive... You can buy generic blank PCBs and a box of
LEDs and solder away. I just suck at soldering. LOL
|
OK, here's how you do it.
You take the lens dimensions and create a PCB outline to fit using a PCB
CAD program. You then populate the entire area with the pads required
for the LEDs and matching series resistors, and connect the pads with
tracks to make series multiples of four LEDs and a resistor per circuit
across common power bus tracks. Remember to allow for fixings to fit
the final PCB into the lens or base, and allow a couple of big pads for
attaching the connection wires. If you have multiple circuits then the
LEDs can be wired in clusters, possibly with diodes to allow individual
or multiple groups to be used from a common switch line.
Now print the finished PCB artwork onto a transparent or translucent
medium and expose a piece of photo sensitive PCB material in a suitable
UV exposure unit. The PCB can then be developed in an alkaline
developer based on Sodium Hydroxide, then rinsed and etched in a hot
bath of Ferric Chloride with air being blown through it to cause
circulation and agitation of the etchant. Once etched you can then hand
drill the several hundred 1mm holes required for the components with a
small hand-held drill and then crop the PCB to size and shape before
mounting the resistors on the back, cropping the leads at the front and
then populating the entire front surface with high output (635nm?) LEDs.
If using superflux these are pretty good at self levelling, but 5mm LEDs
are best having their anodes soldered first then hand levelled
individually before having the cathodes soldered. The choice of
resistor value can be calculated as 13.8 - (4*LED-Vf) / LED-I (20mA for
5mm or 50mA for superflux). You can calculate the appropriate power
rating for the resistors by multiplying the voltage dropped across them
by the current and rounding up to the nearest power rating.
Now simply pop into your lens and bingo, there you go.
--
Clive Mitchell
http:/www.bigclive.com |
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frenchy
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:35 am Post subject:
Re: Source For LED Panels (See Design) |
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How about coming up with some off the shelf or homemade diffuser of
some kind to snap or attach to the end of the 1157 LED bulbs? Sure it
would take more than just spraying some white paint over them but
doesn't seem insurmountable... some thick white transluscent plastic
lens, clear plastic lens with bunch of metal flakes suspended in it,
little piece of foil on tips of the lenses and them white material at
base fo lens so light bounces off the lens back onto the white backing,
I dunno. How bout just clear lens that spreads the light out like a
projector? Maybe once you diffused them perfectly then you'd find out
they don't have enough light output anyway. |
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3T39
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:35 am Post subject:
Re: Source For LED Panels (See Design) |
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Hello, 3T39!
You wrote to Steve TR on Sat, 29 Oct 2005 22:42:18 +0100:
"You can buy off the shelf replacements for the 1157's"
Sorry,
just noticed you already knew this. Dooh!
I didn't read the whole post and jumped to the wrong conclusion.
With best regards, 3T39. E-mail: rubbishrat@hotmail.com |
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Ken Weitzel
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:35 am Post subject:
Re: Source For LED Panels (See Design) |
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|
Steve TR wrote:
| Quote: | I've got a 1971 Ford LTD Convertible. These cars have eight 1157 style
bulbs in the rear to give full width tail and brake lights. That's a LOT
of current going through 30+ year old wiring, switches, and corroded sockets
when you hit the brakes.
This is what the rear end looks like: http://216.110.197.146/ltdrear.jpg
I want to install LEDs to do a couple of things. The first is to give the
"instant on" look for safety and the second is to reduce the current draw
going to the rear of the car when the tail lights are on and you have your
foot on the brakes.
I've seen the cheap bayonet replacement LED based 1157s and they suck.
Yeah, they are bright and give the LED look, but only in a single spot. You
don't have soft diffusion like you do with a filament bulb.
So, I drew up a little blueprint of what I'd like to find for my LTD. Look
at my design and tell me if such a board already exists in mass production.
(Just don't laugh at the drawings... I'm no architect! lol) If it doesn't
exist, I'd be willing to pay someone with soldering skills to create four of
these.
http://216.110.197.146/led_design.gif
The drawing is not perfect and the device doesn't need to be exactly like
this, but just a flat panel around 3 to 4" high and roughly 6-10" long. I
can disassemble my tail lamp housings and fit these panels in there with the
LED's facing the diffuser lense and I think it would give an EVENLY DIFFUSED
look to both the tail lamp lighting and the lighting when you hit the
brakes.
Ideas???
Thanks,
-Steve
|
Hi Steve...
I'd strongly urge you to check before you install anything other than
the original incandescents. I'm very sure that most places we can't
change them without "breaking the law"
Take care.
Ken |
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