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Bret Ludwig
Guest
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 Posted:
Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:35 am Post subject:
The textbook scam |
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Spending large sums of money for textbooks for EE is a scam because
classical EE is an old discipline and it could be taught perfectly
using mostly booke now out of copyright from old age or from government
free use texts like Navy rate training manuals.
They pay professors enough, they should be prohibited from writing
textbooks and then making them mandatory.
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Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 30, 2005 7:12 am Post subject:
Re: The textbook scam |
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Bret, hate to tell you this but the US Navy has never pplublished an EE
text. They have some great technicians texts, but that's about all.
You're correct that EE textbooks are far to overpriced and often
uneeded new versions are introduced, but that's simply a way to keep
them up to date. While the basic theory hasn't changed in over 100
years, new applications have, and the profs try to keep their students
updated on new developments.
Would you want to fork over a tuition payment of now over $20K per year
to any university that didn't?
Harry C. |
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Mike W.
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 30, 2005 7:31 am Post subject:
Re: The textbook scam |
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Well when you have to come up with $500 a quarter (or semester, whatever)
for books that you can't sell back, it gets a little rediculous.
<hhc314@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1130638330.531532.83170@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | Bret, hate to tell you this but the US Navy has never pplublished an EE
text. They have some great technicians texts, but that's about all.
You're correct that EE textbooks are far to overpriced and often
uneeded new versions are introduced, but that's simply a way to keep
them up to date. While the basic theory hasn't changed in over 100
years, new applications have, and the profs try to keep their students
updated on new developments.
Would you want to fork over a tuition payment of now over $20K per year
to any university that didn't?
Harry C.
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Ian Bell
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Oct 31, 2005 1:35 am Post subject:
Re: The textbook scam |
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Bret Ludwig wrote:
| Quote: | Spending large sums of money for textbooks for EE is a scam
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No it is stupid because there are plenty of them around second hand.
Ian |
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Mark Haase
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Oct 31, 2005 1:35 am Post subject:
Re: The textbook scam |
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In article <1130621105.206554.233800@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"Bret Ludwig" <bretldwig@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Spending large sums of money for textbooks for EE is a scam because
classical EE is an old discipline and it could be taught perfectly
using mostly booke now out of copyright from old age or from government
free use texts like Navy rate training manuals.
They pay professors enough, they should be prohibited from writing
textbooks and then making them mandatory.
|
Buy your books online. A lot of those companies reimport from overseas
where the exact same textbooks are sold at 33-50% of the US retail price.
half.com is a good place...I saved well over a thousand dollars by using
that the last two years of college.
--
|\/| /| |2 |<
mehaase(at)gmail(dot)com |
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Mike Berger
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Oct 31, 2005 5:35 pm Post subject:
Re: The textbook scam |
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Yes, but that's a separate problem. EE is one of the areas where
I think textbook revisions are useful. You could probably convince
me that calculus doesn't change all that much. The basic theory
textbooks are a very small part of the whole package.
Mike W. wrote:
| Quote: | Well when you have to come up with $500 a quarter (or semester, whatever)
for books that you can't sell back, it gets a little rediculous. |
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Naveed
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Oct 31, 2005 5:35 pm Post subject:
Re: The textbook scam |
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"Bret Ludwig" <bretldwig@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1130621105.206554.233800@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | Spending large sums of money for textbooks for EE is a scam because
classical EE is an old discipline and it could be taught perfectly
using mostly booke now out of copyright from old age or from government
free use texts like Navy rate training manuals.
They pay professors enough, they should be prohibited from writing
textbooks and then making them mandatory
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Why don't you share with friends or borrow from the library and make notes
from the material? |
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Charles Schuler
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 01, 2005 1:35 am Post subject:
Re: The textbook scam |
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"Bret Ludwig" <bretldwig@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1130621105.206554.233800@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | Spending large sums of money for textbooks for EE is a scam because
classical EE is an old discipline and it could be taught perfectly
using mostly booke now out of copyright from old age or from government
free use texts like Navy rate training manuals.
|
NAVPERS manuals are simply great (for technicians):
http://www.tscm.com/NEETS-v13-Logic.pdf No reason why engineering
students cannot use them ... but they are somewhat lacking in theory and
math.
| Quote: | They pay professors enough, they should be prohibited from writing
textbooks and then making them mandatory.
|
I taught EET at universities for 33 years and chose to write textbooks and
consult to be able to feed a family of four and live in a decent home and
drive a decent car and afford dental care (not provided by my employer) and
send my kids to college. Point of view is everything! My book royalties
and consulting income exceeded my salary for 15 of those years.
I absolutely agree about the mandatory part! That sucks and should not be
allowed. |
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Paul Perry
Joined: 12 Nov 2005
Posts: 4
Location: Melbourne Australia
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| Posted:
Sat Nov 12, 2005 1:27 pm Post subject:
re:The textbook scam |
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I notice that some universities put material on the web (sometimes at least as comprehensive as the average text). That way, it can be updated whenever the need arises. I was a secondhand book dealer for many years & you can tell that most books were very lightly read. The vast majority of texts are completely unnecessary, & the stuff that changes from year to year could easily be coveredby a few web references today.
As for 'timeless' stuff like calculus.. each year the books are fatter, more colorful, and more dumbed down, on the average.
I'm not sure where the pressure for "me too" average texts comes from, probably more ego than greed.
When it comes to a basic practical analog text, Horowitz & Hill "The Art of Electronics" will do me fine. I can fill the gaps from the web, no problem. |
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Winfield Hill
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Nov 13, 2005 9:01 am Post subject:
Re: re:The textbook scam |
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Paul Perry wrote...
| Quote: |
I notice that some universities put material on the web (sometimes
at least as comprehensive as the average text). That way, it can be
updated whenever the need arises. I was a secondhand book dealer for
many years & you can tell that most books were very lightly read.
The vast majority of texts are completely unnecessary, & the stuff
that changes from year to year could easily be coveredby a few web
references today.
As for 'timeless' stuff like calculus.. each year the books are
fatter, more colorful, and more dumbed down, on the average.
I'm not sure where the pressure for "me too" average texts comes
from, probably more ego than greed.
When it comes to a basic practical analog text, Horowitz & Hill
"The Art of Electronics" will do me fine. I can fill the gaps from
the web, no problem.
|
Well, as an author of the fine book you mention above, I can tell
you that both Paul and I have massive personal electronics-book
libraries, that we rely on frequently, and that we're constantly
seeking to expand our holdings. The web simply doesn't hack it.
But I agree textbook prices over $100 is crazy. The addition of
CDs of dubious value, accompanied by $180+ prices, is an outrage.
--
Thanks,
- Win |
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Steven Swift
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Nov 16, 2005 1:35 am Post subject:
Re: The textbook scam |
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Winfield Hill <Winfield_member@newsguy.com> writes:
| Quote: | Paul Perry wrote...
I notice that some universities put material on the web (sometimes
at least as comprehensive as the average text). That way, it can be
updated whenever the need arises. I was a secondhand book dealer for
many years & you can tell that most books were very lightly read.
The vast majority of texts are completely unnecessary, & the stuff
that changes from year to year could easily be coveredby a few web
references today.
As for 'timeless' stuff like calculus.. each year the books are
fatter, more colorful, and more dumbed down, on the average.
I'm not sure where the pressure for "me too" average texts comes
from, probably more ego than greed.
When it comes to a basic practical analog text, Horowitz & Hill
"The Art of Electronics" will do me fine. I can fill the gaps from
the web, no problem.
Well, as an author of the fine book you mention above, I can tell
you that both Paul and I have massive personal electronics-book
libraries, that we rely on frequently, and that we're constantly
seeking to expand our holdings. The web simply doesn't hack it.
But I agree textbook prices over $100 is crazy. The addition of
CDs of dubious value, accompanied by $180+ prices, is an outrage.
|
I agree with Win. Nowadays, I buy books to get one good chapter, often
maintaining several editions of the same books to get the nuances of
changes.
Steve.
--
Steven D. Swift, novatech@eskimo.com, http://www.novatech-instr.com
NOVATECH INSTRUMENTS, INC. P.O. Box 55997
206.301.8986, fax 206.363.4367 Seattle, Washington 98155 USA |
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Andrew VK3BFA
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Nov 17, 2005 9:35 am Post subject:
Re: The textbook scam |
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Steven Swift wrote:
| Quote: | Winfield Hill <Winfield_member@newsguy.com> writes:
Paul Perry wrote...
I notice that some universities put material on the web (sometimes
at least as comprehensive as the average text). That way, it can be
updated whenever the need arises. I was a secondhand book dealer for
many years & you can tell that most books were very lightly read.
The vast majority of texts are completely unnecessary, & the stuff
that changes from year to year could easily be coveredby a few web
references today.
Well, as an author of the fine book you mention above, I can tell
you that both Paul and I have massive personal electronics-book
libraries, that we rely on frequently, and that we're constantly
seeking to expand our holdings. The web simply doesn't hack it.
But I agree textbook prices over $100 is crazy. The addition of
CDs of dubious value, accompanied by $180+ prices, is an outrage.
--
Thanks,
- Win
I agree with Win. Nowadays, I buy books to get one good chapter, often
maintaining several editions of the same books to get the nuances of
changes.
Steve.
--
Steven D. Swift, novatech@eskimo.com, http://www.novatech-instr.com
NOVATECH INSTRUMENTS, INC. P.O. Box 55997
206.301.8986, fax 206.363.4367 Seattle, Washington 98155 USA
|
And its worse outside the USA - especially if you dont have parity
value on currency. Even ARRL handbooks are expensive - try $123.95 Aus
for "Experimental Methods in RF Design".... - its a nice way of keeping
the technologically advanced countries at the top of the heap - make
sure that books, magazines etc are too expensive for students to
buy....
my local library long ago dropped its subscription to QST, Radcom, etc
due to cost - and thats at the hobby level! - student friends at
university report the same in the professional(sp) areas.
And, sorry Win, but for those of us who DONT have the wherewithal to
buy the books we want, sometimes the net is the ONLY source of
information available. And yes, the AOE is the sort of textbook I wish
I had found 20 years ago - one volume, more use than the rest of the
bookshelf! (am saving up for my OWN copy)
73 de VK3BFA Andrew |
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