| Author |
Message |
Guest
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 Posted:
Thu Feb 10, 2005 10:34 pm Post subject:
Recommend audio chip for spot sound effects? |
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I have a tentative request from a client to add sound effects to a
vending machine application. It would be about half a dozen sound
effects in the 1s ballpark, and perhaps two sound effects in the 10s
ballpark. Doesn't have to be field-upgradable. I want something
equivalent to roughly 11.025kHz 8-bit PCM (5-bit ADPCM would be fine).
My options seem to be:
* EPROM with raw sample data, reloadable counter with 11025Hz clock
source, and DAC.
* ISD chips. Kinda expensive (especially to get factory-programmed) and
the audio quality is variable.
* ISTR from my arcade machine days a range of ADPCM parts from Oki;
they were typically controlled by an 8-bit micro and read sample data
right out of a dedicated EPROM. Can't find these parts any more though.
I can't spend much CPU time on this because the whole machine is
controlled by an ATmega32L running at 1MHz and I can't afford such a
fast timer; it would interfere with my other processes. The solution
needs to be primarily hardware.
Has anyone faced and solved this problem in a simple way? Volumes are
very low; maybe a couple of thousand over two years. And it's not a
fersure thing so I would rather have off-the-shelf parts (with an EPROM
or flash chip I can burn myself) than some custom-programmed part.
Yes (this note to Guy Macon :) I have considered masked toy parts but I
don't like the MOQ.
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Charles Edmondson
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Feb 10, 2005 11:52 pm Post subject:
Re: Recommend audio chip for spot sound effects? |
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larwe@larwe.com wrote:
| Quote: | I have a tentative request from a client to add sound effects to a
vending machine application. It would be about half a dozen sound
effects in the 1s ballpark, and perhaps two sound effects in the 10s
ballpark. Doesn't have to be field-upgradable. I want something
equivalent to roughly 11.025kHz 8-bit PCM (5-bit ADPCM would be fine).
My options seem to be:
* EPROM with raw sample data, reloadable counter with 11025Hz clock
source, and DAC.
* ISD chips. Kinda expensive (especially to get factory-programmed) and
the audio quality is variable.
* ISTR from my arcade machine days a range of ADPCM parts from Oki;
they were typically controlled by an 8-bit micro and read sample data
right out of a dedicated EPROM. Can't find these parts any more though.
I can't spend much CPU time on this because the whole machine is
controlled by an ATmega32L running at 1MHz and I can't afford such a
fast timer; it would interfere with my other processes. The solution
needs to be primarily hardware.
Has anyone faced and solved this problem in a simple way? Volumes are
very low; maybe a couple of thousand over two years. And it's not a
fersure thing so I would rather have off-the-shelf parts (with an EPROM
or flash chip I can burn myself) than some custom-programmed part.
Yes (this note to Guy Macon :) I have considered masked toy parts but I
don't like the MOQ.
Get one of the later Cypress PSOC parts, and have the samples stored in |
the FLASH on it. Has the DACs, opamps, and all the other stuff you need
on chip...
--
Charlie
--
Edmondson Engineering
Unique Solutions to Unusual Problems |
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Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Feb 11, 2005 12:51 am Post subject:
Re: Recommend audio chip for spot sound effects? |
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| Quote: | * EPROM with raw sample data, reloadable counter with 11025Hz clock
source, and DAC.
Get one of the later Cypress PSOC parts, and have the samples stored
in
the FLASH on it. Has the DACs, opamps, and all the other stuff you
need
on chip...
|
We're talking approximately 20 seconds of audio at 11025kHz. Assuming
5-bit ADPCM, that's (5/8) * 20 * 11025 bytes = 137812.5Kbytes of flash
space. The largest PSoC I see is 32Kbytes.
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Charles Edmondson
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Feb 11, 2005 1:28 am Post subject:
Re: Recommend audio chip for spot sound effects? |
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larwe@larwe.com wrote:
| Quote: | * EPROM with raw sample data, reloadable counter with 11025Hz clock
source, and DAC.
Get one of the later Cypress PSOC parts, and have the samples stored
in
the FLASH on it. Has the DACs, opamps, and all the other stuff you
need
on chip...
We're talking approximately 20 seconds of audio at 11025kHz. Assuming
5-bit ADPCM, that's (5/8) * 20 * 11025 bytes = 137812.5Kbytes of flash
space. The largest PSoC I see is 32Kbytes.
11025kHz? Why such a high sample frequence? oh, wait, 11kHz, still a |
little high. I usually just use 8kHz.
but yeah, you usually add in a DataFLASH, say a 4meg or larger part for
the sample storage. You need the later PSoCs to have the RAM for the
data buffers.
--
Charlie
--
Edmondson Engineering
Unique Solutions to Unusual Problems |
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James Beck
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Feb 11, 2005 3:25 am Post subject:
Re: Recommend audio chip for spot sound effects? |
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In article <420bb5da$1@news.cadence.com>, edmondson@ieee.org says...
| Quote: | larwe@larwe.com wrote:
* EPROM with raw sample data, reloadable counter with 11025Hz clock
source, and DAC.
Get one of the later Cypress PSOC parts, and have the samples stored
in
the FLASH on it. Has the DACs, opamps, and all the other stuff you
need
on chip...
We're talking approximately 20 seconds of audio at 11025kHz. Assuming
5-bit ADPCM, that's (5/8) * 20 * 11025 bytes = 137812.5Kbytes of flash
space. The largest PSoC I see is 32Kbytes.
11025kHz? Why such a high sample frequence? oh, wait, 11kHz, still a
little high. I usually just use 8kHz.
but yeah, you usually add in a DataFLASH, say a 4meg or larger part for
the sample storage. You need the later PSoCs to have the RAM for the
data buffers.
If the sound effects can handle a little loss of precision, do a little |
ADPCM in the processor and save a lot in storage space. That is what
the OKI chips he has seen on the arcade games do. As long as you can
snag the samples and process them fast enough. |
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Joerg
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Feb 11, 2005 5:00 am Post subject:
Re: Recommend audio chip for spot sound effects? |
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Hello Lewin,
A long time ago I was looking for something similar. I cannot remember the company but there was one in Asia that did pretty much nothing but sound recording and playback chips of different sizes. Maybe some Google searching could find that.
Also, look at what retailers such as Digikey have. I vaguely remember that you could buy these chips at one of these places, too.
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com |
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Ken Moffett
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Feb 11, 2005 5:27 am Post subject:
Re: Recommend audio chip for spot sound effects? |
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larwe@larwe.com wrote:
| Quote: |
I have a tentative request from a client to add sound effects to a
vending machine application. It would be about half a dozen sound
effects in the 1s ballpark, and perhaps two sound effects in the 10s
ballpark. Doesn't have to be field-upgradable. I want something
equivalent to roughly 11.025kHz 8-bit PCM (5-bit ADPCM would be fine).
My options seem to be:
* EPROM with raw sample data, reloadable counter with 11025Hz clock
source, and DAC.
* ISD chips. Kinda expensive (especially to get factory-programmed) and
the audio quality is variable.
* ISTR from my arcade machine days a range of ADPCM parts from Oki;
they were typically controlled by an 8-bit micro and read sample data
right out of a dedicated EPROM. Can't find these parts any more though.
I can't spend much CPU time on this because the whole machine is
controlled by an ATmega32L running at 1MHz and I can't afford such a
fast timer; it would interfere with my other processes. The solution
needs to be primarily hardware.
Has anyone faced and solved this problem in a simple way? Volumes are
very low; maybe a couple of thousand over two years. And it's not a
fersure thing so I would rather have off-the-shelf parts (with an EPROM
or flash chip I can burn myself) than some custom-programmed part.
Yes (this note to Guy Macon :) I have considered masked toy parts but I
don't like the MOQ.
|
Look into the recorder chips at:
http://www.winbond-usa.com/
Their chips come in many recording lengths. You can address
many record/playback segments in the chips memory. I've used them, and
think they would work for your application. I used a simple diode
AND'ing matrix to allow single switchs or transistors to output each 8
bit address. |
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Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Feb 11, 2005 5:31 am Post subject:
Re: Recommend audio chip for spot sound effects? |
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| Quote: | Their chips come in many recording lengths. You can address
many record/playback segments in the chips memory. I've used them,
and |
That's ISD (Winbond acquired ISD a while ago). The audio quality is
questionable on those, and preprogramming them is difficult. |
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Ulf Samuelsson
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Feb 11, 2005 7:04 pm Post subject:
Re: Recommend audio chip for spot sound effects? |
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<larwe@larwe.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:1108053262.719505.203360@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | I have a tentative request from a client to add sound effects to a
vending machine application. It would be about half a dozen sound
effects in the 1s ballpark, and perhaps two sound effects in the 10s
ballpark. Doesn't have to be field-upgradable. I want something
equivalent to roughly 11.025kHz 8-bit PCM (5-bit ADPCM would be fine).
My options seem to be:
* EPROM with raw sample data, reloadable counter with 11025Hz clock
source, and DAC.
* ISD chips. Kinda expensive (especially to get factory-programmed) and
the audio quality is variable.
* ISTR from my arcade machine days a range of ADPCM parts from Oki;
they were typically controlled by an 8-bit micro and read sample data
right out of a dedicated EPROM. Can't find these parts any more though.
I can't spend much CPU time on this because the whole machine is
controlled by an ATmega32L running at 1MHz and I can't afford such a
fast timer; it would interfere with my other processes. The solution
needs to be primarily hardware.
|
There is an AVR application note on how to use AVR + Dataflash
for sound recording and playback. This uses 8 kHz sampling frequency.
The speaker circuit consists of a 5th order low-pass Chebychev filter and a
unary gain
amplifier. so you needs some external LM324s.
AVR335: Digital Sound Recorder with AVR and DataFlash (29 pages, revision B,
updated 01/04)
This Application Note describes how to record, store and play back sound
using any AVR MCU with A/D converter, the AT45DB161 DataFlash memory and a
few extra components
http://www.atmel.com/dyn/resources/prod_documents/doc1456.pdf
http://www.atmel.com/dyn/resources/prod_documents/avr335.zip
--
Best Regards,
Ulf Samuelsson
ulf@a-t-m-e-l.com
This message is intended to be my own personal view and it
may or may not be shared by my employer Atmel Nordic AB |
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Alex Parkinson
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Feb 11, 2005 9:09 pm Post subject:
Re: Recommend audio chip for spot sound effects? |
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| Quote: | That's ISD (Winbond acquired ISD a while ago). The audio quality is
questionable on those, and preprogramming them is difficult.
|
You can also check out chips from A-Plus, a Taiwanese company. They are equivalent to
the ISD chips in quality and difficulty of programming, but they are much cheaper.
http://www.aplusinc.com.tw/
Alex Parkinson |
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Raivo Leini
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Feb 12, 2005 4:17 pm Post subject:
Re: Recommend audio chip for spot sound effects? |
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<larwe@larwe.com> wrote in message
news:1108053262.719505.203360@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | I have a tentative request from a client to add sound effects to a
vending machine application. It would be about half a dozen sound
effects in the 1s ballpark, and perhaps two sound effects in the 10s
ballpark. Doesn't have to be field-upgradable. I want something
equivalent to roughly 11.025kHz 8-bit PCM (5-bit ADPCM would be fine).
My options seem to be:
* EPROM with raw sample data, reloadable counter with 11025Hz clock
source, and DAC.
* ISD chips. Kinda expensive (especially to get factory-programmed) and
the audio quality is variable.
* ISTR from my arcade machine days a range of ADPCM parts from Oki;
they were typically controlled by an 8-bit micro and read sample data
right out of a dedicated EPROM. Can't find these parts any more though.
I can't spend much CPU time on this because the whole machine is
controlled by an ATmega32L running at 1MHz and I can't afford such a
fast timer; it would interfere with my other processes. The solution
needs to be primarily hardware.
Has anyone faced and solved this problem in a simple way? Volumes are
very low; maybe a couple of thousand over two years. And it's not a
fersure thing so I would rather have off-the-shelf parts (with an EPROM
or flash chip I can burn myself) than some custom-programmed part.
Yes (this note to Guy Macon :) I have considered masked toy parts but I
don't like the MOQ.
|
no problem for ATmega128; leave out ADPCM and
make a tandem SPI serial Flash ( ST's M25P40) + SPI serial DAC.
r.
> |
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Luhan Monat
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Feb 13, 2005 4:03 am Post subject:
Re: Recommend audio chip for spot sound effects? |
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Ulf Samuelsson wrote:
| Quote: | larwe@larwe.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:1108053262.719505.203360@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
I have a tentative request from a client to add sound effects to a
vending machine application. It would be about half a dozen sound
effects in the 1s ballpark, and perhaps two sound effects in the 10s
ballpark. Doesn't have to be field-upgradable. I want something
equivalent to roughly 11.025kHz 8-bit PCM (5-bit ADPCM would be fine).
My options seem to be:
* EPROM with raw sample data, reloadable counter with 11025Hz clock
source, and DAC.
* ISD chips. Kinda expensive (especially to get factory-programmed) and
the audio quality is variable.
* ISTR from my arcade machine days a range of ADPCM parts from Oki;
they were typically controlled by an 8-bit micro and read sample data
right out of a dedicated EPROM. Can't find these parts any more though.
I can't spend much CPU time on this because the whole machine is
controlled by an ATmega32L running at 1MHz and I can't afford such a
fast timer; it would interfere with my other processes. The solution
needs to be primarily hardware.
There is an AVR application note on how to use AVR + Dataflash
for sound recording and playback. This uses 8 kHz sampling frequency.
The speaker circuit consists of a 5th order low-pass Chebychev filter and a
unary gain
amplifier. so you needs some external LM324s.
AVR335: Digital Sound Recorder with AVR and DataFlash (29 pages, revision B,
updated 01/04)
This Application Note describes how to record, store and play back sound
using any AVR MCU with A/D converter, the AT45DB161 DataFlash memory and a
few extra components
http://www.atmel.com/dyn/resources/prod_documents/doc1456.pdf
http://www.atmel.com/dyn/resources/prod_documents/avr335.zip
--
Best Regards,
Ulf Samuelsson
ulf@a-t-m-e-l.com
This message is intended to be my own personal view and it
may or may not be shared by my employer Atmel Nordic AB
Hi, |
I've been adding sound/speech to my projects lately using 512k eeproms.
They sell for about $3.10 each and can record 8 bits at 8khz for 8
seconds.
Read them with a PIC and send output to MCP41010 ($1.29 programable
potentiometer used as cheap 8 bit d/a).
--
Luhan Monat (luhanis 'at' yahoo 'dot' com)
"The future is not what it used to be..."
http://members.cox.net/berniekm |
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Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Feb 14, 2005 11:35 pm Post subject:
Re: Recommend audio chip for spot sound effects? |
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| Quote: | My options seem to be:
|
There is another option:
Take any cheap microcontroller, and implement an FM synthesiser.
With few control words you can generate a lot of 80s style sound
effects. CODE+DATA plus PWM output should be possible on any
vanilla 8-pin micro (PIC/AVR/etc). |
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