110V ac
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R.Lewis
Guest
Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:02 am    Post subject: 110V ac Reply with quote
Are there any 'standards' - de facto or actual - that define what is meant
by a 110V (mains) supply in the UK and throughout Europe in the same way
that the pan-European household mains supply is defined?

Thanks in anticipation.

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Dan Mills
Guest
Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:33 am    Post subject: Re: 110V ac Reply with quote
R.Lewis wrote:

Quote:
Are there any 'standards' - de facto or actual - that define what is meant
by a 110V (mains) supply in the UK and throughout Europe in the same way
that the pan-European household mains supply is defined?

I don't think anywhere in Europe uses 110V for mains, it is all a nominal
230V (By international agreement (actually by eurofudge)). The only place I
see 110V over here is on building sites where it is usually 55-0-55 with an
earthed centre tap.
Note that as neither side of this supply is earthed, you need to fuse both
lines if splitting a high current '110v' supply down for smaller loads.
Rather like what is required when running 230V (or 208V...) appliances in
the 'states.

There is a standard for the transformers used to produce this on building
sites but I cannot remember the number.

HTH.

Regards, Dan.
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Tim Wescott
Guest
Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:39 am    Post subject: Re: 110V ac Reply with quote
Dan Mills wrote:

Quote:
R.Lewis wrote:


Are there any 'standards' - de facto or actual - that define what is meant
by a 110V (mains) supply in the UK and throughout Europe in the same way
that the pan-European household mains supply is defined?


I don't think anywhere in Europe uses 110V for mains, it is all a nominal
230V (By international agreement (actually by eurofudge)). The only place I
see 110V over here is on building sites where it is usually 55-0-55 with an
earthed centre tap.
Note that as neither side of this supply is earthed, you need to fuse both
lines if splitting a high current '110v' supply down for smaller loads.
Rather like what is required when running 230V (or 208V...) appliances in
the 'states.

There is a standard for the transformers used to produce this on building
sites but I cannot remember the number.

HTH.

Regards, Dan.

Why on earth (or at least why in Europe) would you want 110V on building
sites and no where else? So the highest voltage to ground is only 55V?
Does this mean that European building contractors have all special
110V tools?

Yeek.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

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John Larkin
Guest
Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:02 am    Post subject: Re: 110V ac Reply with quote
On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 22:33:07 +0000, Dan Mills
<dmills@spamblock.demon.co.uk> wrote:

Quote:

I don't think anywhere in Europe uses 110V for mains, it is all a nominal
230V (By international agreement (actually by eurofudge)).

The Corcom power inlet/fuze/emi filter things we buy used to be marked
100-120-220-240, with a little selector thing that switches
transformer taps. One day they started arriving labeled
100-120-230-240, even though nothing else had changed. Given the way
the transformer taps have to work, this isn't right.

I guess some bureaucrat in Brussels decided that 220=230.

John
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petrus bitbyter
Guest
Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:36 am    Post subject: Re: 110V ac Reply with quote
"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highSNIPlandTHIStechPLEASEnology.com> schreef in
bericht news:41hi019dqdsmsapubcf9lp3ic3qlkutaa6@4ax.com...
Quote:
On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 22:33:07 +0000, Dan Mills
dmills@spamblock.demon.co.uk> wrote:


I don't think anywhere in Europe uses 110V for mains, it is all a nominal
230V (By international agreement (actually by eurofudge)).

The Corcom power inlet/fuze/emi filter things we buy used to be marked
100-120-220-240, with a little selector thing that switches
transformer taps. One day they started arriving labeled
100-120-230-240, even though nothing else had changed. Given the way
the transformer taps have to work, this isn't right.

I guess some bureaucrat in Brussels decided that 220=230.

John


FAIK that's correct although it was not one bureaucrat but a bunch of them.
Mains voltage should be brought to 230V all over Europe. The UK did so
already by increasing tolerances. The voltage itself did not change. In
other countries the voltage is increased over time and most equipment is
rated for 220/230V thes days.

petrus bitbyter
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Joerg
Guest
Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:02 am    Post subject: Re: 110V ac Reply with quote
Hello John,

Quote:
I guess some bureaucrat in Brussels decided that 220=230.



We had our fair share as well. Remember the old law from, I believe, the
state of Indiana that declared that the value of Pi is 4? At least they
didn't repeal Ohm's law or declare it unconstitutional.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com
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Tim Wescott
Guest
Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:42 am    Post subject: Re: 110V ac Reply with quote
Joerg wrote:

Quote:
Hello John,

I guess some bureaucrat in Brussels decided that 220=230.



We had our fair share as well. Remember the old law from, I believe, the
state of Indiana that declared that the value of Pi is 4? At least they
didn't repeal Ohm's law or declare it unconstitutional.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

Urban Legend: http://www.snopes.com/religion/pi.htm.

Except for the states (Oregon included) where you calculate the
board-feet of a log coming out of a state forest using area = 3/4 *
diameter^2, i.e. pi = 3. This is _not_ done because of religious
conviction, but to make the 'rithmatic easy.

This was related to me by a fellow who made log scaling computers. He
was off testing one (complete with pi = 3 software) in Roseburg when a
truck pulls up to the log scaling station. The old guy running the
place glances at the load and names a figure in board feet. Kevin
thinks "lazy old crank" to himself and goes off to measure logs. 10
minutes later his computer agrees with the old guy to within 5%.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com
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John Larkin
Guest
Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:45 am    Post subject: Re: 110V ac Reply with quote
On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 00:02:04 GMT, Joerg
<notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

Quote:
Hello John,

I guess some bureaucrat in Brussels decided that 220=230.



We had our fair share as well. Remember the old law from, I believe, the
state of Indiana that declared that the value of Pi is 4? At least they
didn't repeal Ohm's law or declare it unconstitutional.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com


Hey, cool:

http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_341.html


Think maybe I should get back to work?

John
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Rich Grise
Guest
Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 8:16 am    Post subject: Re: 110V ac Reply with quote
On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 15:02:45 -0800, John Larkin wrote:

Quote:
On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 22:33:07 +0000, Dan Mills
dmills@spamblock.demon.co.uk> wrote:


I don't think anywhere in Europe uses 110V for mains, it is all a nominal
230V (By international agreement (actually by eurofudge)).

The Corcom power inlet/fuze/emi filter things we buy used to be marked
100-120-220-240, with a little selector thing that switches
transformer taps. One day they started arriving labeled
100-120-230-240, even though nothing else had changed. Given the way
the transformer taps have to work, this isn't right.

I guess some bureaucrat in Brussels decided that 220=230.


If you write it that way in C, it does. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich
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Rich Grise
Guest
Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 8:19 am    Post subject: Re: 110V ac Reply with quote
On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 16:42:05 -0800, Tim Wescott wrote:
Quote:
Joerg wrote:
Hello John,
I guess some bureaucrat in Brussels decided that 220=230.
We had our fair share as well. Remember the old law from, I believe, the
state of Indiana that declared that the value of Pi is 4? At least they
didn't repeal Ohm's law or declare it unconstitutional.

3. ;-)

Quote:
Urban Legend: http://www.snopes.com/religion/pi.htm.

Except for the states (Oregon included) where you calculate the
board-feet of a log coming out of a state forest using area = 3/4 *
diameter^2, i.e. pi = 3. This is _not_ done because of religious
conviction, but to make the 'rithmatic easy.

It might have something to do with .1416 * r^2 board feet of bark. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich
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Paul Burke
Guest
Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 8:40 am    Post subject: Re: 110V ac Reply with quote
Dan Mills wrote:
Quote:
R.Lewis wrote:

I don't think anywhere in Europe uses 110V for mains, it is all a nominal
230V (By international agreement (actually by eurofudge)). The only place I
see 110V over here is on building sites where it is usually 55-0-55 with an
earthed centre tap.

110V supply is common in industrial plant in the UK. As it's over 50V,
the normal IEE Wiring Regulations apply, and you can use any of the
earthing schemes covered therein as appropriate. Don't forget that the
current is twice normal, so size conductors accordingly.

I've always assumed the reason was to stop the workforce walking off
with the company's power tools.

Paul Burke
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Rich The Newsgropup Wacko
Guest
Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 8:40 am    Post subject: Re: 110V ac Reply with quote
On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 03:52:05 +0000, Pooh Bear wrote:
Quote:
John Larkin wrote:

I guess some bureaucrat in Brussels decided that 220=230.

They actually decided that 220V +/- 6% and 240V ( UK ) +/- 6% was covered by
230V +/- 10 % !

Some of the wealthier ( better infrastructure ) mainland European countries
have actually now really changed from 220V to 230V.

In the UK we're still 240V and the light loading of the supply caused by the
elimination of manufacturing industry often means that the real voltage at the
socket can regularly reach 250V ! 243V is more common most places though.

This means getting the right incandescent bulb ( Europe wide ) that doesn't
burn out or give a dim light quite fun. 220 -230 and 240 V versions are on
sale according to locality.

Oh - you ought to bear this in mind for your toroidal transformer. It
shouldn't saturate at 50Hz and 253V.

Why does this bring to mind the phrase, "High-strung?"

Thanks,
Rich
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Mac
Guest
Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 8:40 am    Post subject: Re: 110V ac Reply with quote
On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 14:39:48 -0800, Tim Wescott wrote:

Quote:
Dan Mills wrote:

R.Lewis wrote:


Are there any 'standards' - de facto or actual - that define what is meant
by a 110V (mains) supply in the UK and throughout Europe in the same way
that the pan-European household mains supply is defined?


I don't think anywhere in Europe uses 110V for mains, it is all a nominal
230V (By international agreement (actually by eurofudge)). The only place I
see 110V over here is on building sites where it is usually 55-0-55 with an
earthed centre tap.
Note that as neither side of this supply is earthed, you need to fuse both
lines if splitting a high current '110v' supply down for smaller loads.
Rather like what is required when running 230V (or 208V...) appliances in
the 'states.

There is a standard for the transformers used to produce this on building
sites but I cannot remember the number.

HTH.

Regards, Dan.

Why on earth (or at least why in Europe) would you want 110V on building
sites and no where else? So the highest voltage to ground is only 55V?
Does this mean that European building contractors have all special
110V tools?

Yeek.

Well, since the US uses 110 (or 120 or 117) maybe they can also sell such
tools in the US market. Maybe that is why so many high-end US power tools
have removeable cords?

--Mac
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John Larkin
Guest
Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 8:40 am    Post subject: Re: 110V ac Reply with quote
On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 03:52:05 +0000, Pooh Bear
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

Quote:


John Larkin wrote:

On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 22:33:07 +0000, Dan Mills
dmills@spamblock.demon.co.uk> wrote:


I don't think anywhere in Europe uses 110V for mains, it is all a nominal
230V (By international agreement (actually by eurofudge)).

The Corcom power inlet/fuze/emi filter things we buy used to be marked
100-120-220-240, with a little selector thing that switches
transformer taps. One day they started arriving labeled
100-120-230-240, even though nothing else had changed. Given the way
the transformer taps have to work, this isn't right.

I guess some bureaucrat in Brussels decided that 220=230.

They actually decided that 220V +/- 6% and 240V ( UK ) +/- 6% was covered by
230V +/- 10 % !

Some of the wealthier ( better infrastructure ) mainland European countries
have actually now really changed from 220V to 230V.

In the UK we're still 240V and the light loading of the supply caused by the
elimination of manufacturing industry often means that the real voltage at the
socket can regularly reach 250V ! 243V is more common most places though.

This means getting the right incandescent bulb ( Europe wide ) that doesn't
burn out or give a dim light quite fun. 220 -230 and 240 V versions are on
sale according to locality.

Oh - you ought to bear this in mind for your toroidal transformer. It
shouldn't saturate at 50Hz and 253V.




We spec'd it to operate at 240+-10%, 50/60 Hz, which calculates to
264. If only people would read specs!

Here we have residential 120-0-120 power. In my old house, a 100+
year-old Victorian, we had an intermittent open neutral (that's the 0v
line in the middle) out on the pole outside. That caused interesting
effects, as about half the 120-volt devices in the house were then
operating in series with the other half, off 240 volts.

John
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Pooh Bear
Guest
Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 8:40 am    Post subject: Re: 110V ac Reply with quote
Glenn Gundlach wrote:

Quote:
You might find it amusing that in Hollywood, some video/audio houses
use 120 center tapped for the equipment. It seems all those Corcom
filters with 1000 pF caps from neutral and hot to ground can throw in
some significant imbalances into the neutral causing hum all over the
place. The 1 big transformer is easier than opening hundreds of units
to rework/replace those line filters. Of course the down side is
requiring dual breakers (common actuator) and twice the wiring.
GG

For a variety of reason - all mainly associated with leakage currents -
quite a few really pro recording studios run their ac supply centre
tapped. Old guitar amps are supposedly one of the worst offenders aside
from currents resulting from line filters.


Graham
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