| Author |
Message |
Jerry Avins
Guest
|
 Posted:
Thu Feb 10, 2005 8:56 pm Post subject:
Re: OEM chips for X-10 available? |
|
|
John Woodgate wrote:
| Quote: | I read in sci.electronics.design that Jerry Avins <jya@ieee.org> wrote
(in <JJidnR0FVvPYcJffRVn-qA@rcn.net>) about 'OEM chips for X-10
available?', on Thu, 10 Feb 2005:
True 2-phase power is rare nowadays,
'2 phase' in itself doesn't demand that the interphase angle is 90
degrees. I SAID that argument was pointless.
|
Would you accept a six-phase rectifier bank that had all phases in the
same quadrant? The language problem arises because there are two uses of
"two phase", both legitimate.
Whenever two separate wires, not in phase, carry power, the system has
two phases and is loosely called 2-phase. (The common phase differences
are 180. 120, and 90 degrees. If 135 degrees were supplied, that would
also be two phases.)
The technical use implies 90 degrees. See what a 2-phase motor needs for
power. Look up the connections and turns ratios needed for a transformer
bank that converts between 2-phase and 3-phase (Scott T) and see what
angles are involved.
Both the loose and the technical usages have their places. Arguing about
which is "right" is not so much pointless as beside the point.
Jerry
--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
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John Woodgate
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Feb 10, 2005 9:09 pm Post subject:
Re: OEM chips for X-10 available? |
|
|
I read in sci.electronics.design that Jerry Avins <jya@ieee.org> wrote
(in <Nd-dnZKbhJWM65bfRVn-tg@rcn.net>) about 'OEM chips for X-10
available?', on Thu, 10 Feb 2005:
| Quote: | Both the loose and the technical usages have their places. Arguing about
which is "right" is not so much pointless as beside the point.
|
What's the difference? (;-)
But I agree.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk |
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John Fields
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Feb 10, 2005 11:18 pm Post subject:
Re: OEM chips for X-10 available? |
|
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On 8 Feb 2005 12:17:20 -0800, edugimeno@hotmail.com (Eduardo Gimeno)
wrote:
| Quote: | Hello.
I'm new on X10 and home automation, but have been on electronics for
several years.
I'm looking for some OEM module or "all-in-one" chip containing all
the circuitry for signal_processing->mo/dem->decoder for building my
own X-10 appliances. I can use several microcontrollers I have
experience on, and I just need some kind of asic IC or so to make all
the stuff regarding the X-10 protocol and interface with power line.
Any help would be appreciated, because I have not found anything yet
for this.
|
---
http://www.x10.com/automation/x10_tw523.htm
http://www.x10.com/automation/x10_pl513.htm
--
John Fields
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Gene S. Berkowitz
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Feb 13, 2005 5:33 am Post subject:
Re: OEM chips for X-10 available? |
|
|
In article <191432c8.0502081217.2edc9bb4@posting.google.com>,
edugimeno@hotmail.com says...
| Quote: | Hello.
I'm new on X10 and home automation, but have been on electronics for
several years.
I'm looking for some OEM module or "all-in-one" chip containing all
the circuitry for signal_processing->mo/dem->decoder for building my
own X-10 appliances. I can use several microcontrollers I have
experience on, and I just need some kind of asic IC or so to make all
the stuff regarding the X-10 protocol and interface with power line.
Any help would be appreciated, because I have not found anything yet
for this.
Many thanks in advance.
Eduardo Gimeno.
Spain
|
You want a Micromint PLIX chip.
http://www.micromint.com/products/chips.htm
Power Line Interface for X-10 (PLIX)
PLIX Chip and TW523
Parallel PLIX is an 18-pin CMOS chip which provides an intelligent
communication interface between a computer and X-10 AC power-line
control modules. PLIX removes the burden of complex X-10 programming
protocol from the designer by providing a simple parallel interface. It
takes care of the complex zero-crossing timing for sending and receiving
X-10 commands so you don't have to. An otherwise simple embedded
controller can now also feature X-10 power-line control by simply adding
a PLIX chip to the design. PLIX are available in both a Parallel and
Serial version.
SERIAL PLIX is designed to interface with the Serial port of any
embedded controller or computer. Using simple ASCII commands, the user
now has a simple way to communicate with the X-10 powerline adapter
module (TW523) to control electronic devices over the existing
powerlines. With a little imagination and software support from the
user, Serial PLIX also has the capability to transmit and receive data
segments via the powerlines. The user can select the baud rate and other
parameters to obtain the desired communications protocol.
$19 qty 1.
--Gene |
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Eduardo Gimeno
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Feb 14, 2005 4:42 pm Post subject:
Re: OEM chips for X-10 available? |
|
|
Let's retake the subject, because it resulted in a discussion about
pahses and so on...:-)
The micromint PLIX chip seemed perfect for the task until I found out
I also needed another module (TW523) whose size is huge (apart from
the cost).
Once again, I don't want to shut the doors just to X-10. I need an
easy to implement and unexpensive protocol to communicate over the
PLC. Even I can lay a data cable for this matter, because I have a
spare electrical tube between each pair of boxes I asked just for this
purpose. When I heard about X-10 I thought I wouldn't need to use the
spare tube, but now when I see the complexity, I do not discard using
it.
Someone mentioned Lonworks. Does it make my problem easy to solve?
Another commands protocol for remote switching over the PLC, or over a
dedicated data line which can be implemented mostly on one chip and
unexpensively?
Thanks!
Eduardo.
| Quote: | In article <191432c8.0502081217.2edc9bb4@posting.google.com>,
edugimeno@hotmail.com says...
Hello.
I'm new on X10 and home automation, but have been on electronics for
several years.
I'm looking for some OEM module or "all-in-one" chip containing all
the circuitry for signal_processing->mo/dem->decoder for building my
own X-10 appliances. I can use several microcontrollers I have
experience on, and I just need some kind of asic IC or so to make all
the stuff regarding the X-10 protocol and interface with power line.
Any help would be appreciated, because I have not found anything yet
for this.
Many thanks in advance.
Eduardo Gimeno.
Spain
You want a Micromint PLIX chip.
http://www.micromint.com/products/chips.htm
Power Line Interface for X-10 (PLIX)
PLIX Chip and TW523
Parallel PLIX is an 18-pin CMOS chip which provides an intelligent
communication interface between a computer and X-10 AC power-line
control modules. PLIX removes the burden of complex X-10 programming
protocol from the designer by providing a simple parallel interface. It
takes care of the complex zero-crossing timing for sending and receiving
X-10 commands so you don't have to. An otherwise simple embedded
controller can now also feature X-10 power-line control by simply adding
a PLIX chip to the design. PLIX are available in both a Parallel and
Serial version.
SERIAL PLIX is designed to interface with the Serial port of any
embedded controller or computer. Using simple ASCII commands, the user
now has a simple way to communicate with the X-10 powerline adapter
module (TW523) to control electronic devices over the existing
powerlines. With a little imagination and software support from the
user, Serial PLIX also has the capability to transmit and receive data
segments via the powerlines. The user can select the baud rate and other
parameters to obtain the desired communications protocol.
$19 qty 1.
--Gene |
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mike
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Feb 14, 2005 6:07 pm Post subject:
Re: OEM chips for X-10 available? |
|
|
Eduardo Gimeno wrote:
| Quote: | Let's retake the subject, because it resulted in a discussion about
pahses and so on...:-)
The micromint PLIX chip seemed perfect for the task until I found out
I also needed another module (TW523) whose size is huge (apart from
the cost).
Once again, I don't want to shut the doors just to X-10. I need an
easy to implement and unexpensive protocol to communicate over the
PLC. Even I can lay a data cable for this matter, because I have a
spare electrical tube between each pair of boxes I asked just for this
purpose. When I heard about X-10 I thought I wouldn't need to use the
spare tube, but now when I see the complexity, I do not discard using
it.
Someone mentioned Lonworks. Does it make my problem easy to solve?
Another commands protocol for remote switching over the PLC, or over a
dedicated data line which can be implemented mostly on one chip and
unexpensively?
Thanks!
Eduardo.
In article <191432c8.0502081217.2edc9bb4@posting.google.com>,
edugimeno@hotmail.com says...
Hello.
I'm new on X10 and home automation, but have been on electronics for
several years.
I'm looking for some OEM module or "all-in-one" chip containing all
the circuitry for signal_processing->mo/dem->decoder for building my
own X-10 appliances. I can use several microcontrollers I have
experience on, and I just need some kind of asic IC or so to make all
the stuff regarding the X-10 protocol and interface with power line.
Any help would be appreciated, because I have not found anything yet
for this.
Many thanks in advance.
Eduardo Gimeno.
Spain
You want a Micromint PLIX chip.
http://www.micromint.com/products/chips.htm
Power Line Interface for X-10 (PLIX)
PLIX Chip and TW523
Parallel PLIX is an 18-pin CMOS chip which provides an intelligent
communication interface between a computer and X-10 AC power-line
control modules. PLIX removes the burden of complex X-10 programming
protocol from the designer by providing a simple parallel interface. It
takes care of the complex zero-crossing timing for sending and receiving
X-10 commands so you don't have to. An otherwise simple embedded
controller can now also feature X-10 power-line control by simply adding
a PLIX chip to the design. PLIX are available in both a Parallel and
Serial version.
SERIAL PLIX is designed to interface with the Serial port of any
embedded controller or computer. Using simple ASCII commands, the user
now has a simple way to communicate with the X-10 powerline adapter
module (TW523) to control electronic devices over the existing
powerlines. With a little imagination and software support from the
user, Serial PLIX also has the capability to transmit and receive data
segments via the powerlines. The user can select the baud rate and other
parameters to obtain the desired communications protocol.
$19 qty 1.
--Gene
Well, if you've got a wire... |
PIC16F87Xa. Builtin serial port, whether you need level translator
depends on length and noise. Onechip, lots of i/o.
Probably can find a cheaper more current part with enough capability.
mike
--
Return address is VALID but some sites block emails
with links. Delete this sig when replying.
..
Wanted, PCMCIA SCSI Card for HP m820 CDRW.
FS 500MHz Tek DSOscilloscope TDS540 Make Offer
Wanted, 12.1" LCD for Gateway Solo 5300. Samsung LT121SU-121
Bunch of stuff For Sale and Wanted at the link below.
MAKE THE OBVIOUS CHANGES TO THE LINK
http://www.geoc<removethis>ities.com/SiliconValley/Monitor/4710/ |
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Brian
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Feb 14, 2005 11:28 pm Post subject:
Re: OEM chips for X-10 available? |
|
|
Eduardo Gimeno wrote:
| Quote: | Hello.
I'm new on X10 and home automation, but have been on electronics for
several years.
I'm looking for some OEM module or "all-in-one" chip containing all
the circuitry for signal_processing->mo/dem->decoder for building my
own X-10 appliances. I can use several microcontrollers I have
experience on, and I just need some kind of asic IC or so to make all
the stuff regarding the X-10 protocol and interface with power line.
Any help would be appreciated, because I have not found anything yet
for this.
Many thanks in advance.
Eduardo Gimeno.
Spain
|
I don't know about an "all-in-one" chip. It would have to handle 120V
or 220V power input to synchronize with the zero crossing. The PL513,
TW523, LM465 and CM17A units that X-10 sells are fairly cheap. But
you'll need a TW723 (or is it TW7223?) for 220V, 50Hz systems, if
that's what Spain uses.
http://www.nutsvolts.com/toc_Pages/TOC_Related_Info/0411/Murtha.pdf
There's an article in the current Circuit Cellar about using a CM17A
with an RS232 UART.
- Brian
http://www.rabbitsemiconductor.com
http://www.zworld.com
http://www.imaginetools.com |
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John Fields
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:34 am Post subject:
Re: OEM chips for X-10 available? |
|
|
On 14 Feb 2005 02:42:11 -0800, edugimeno@hotmail.com (Eduardo Gimeno)
wrote:
| Quote: | Let's retake the subject, because it resulted in a discussion about
pahses and so on...:-)
The micromint PLIX chip seemed perfect for the task until I found out
I also needed another module (TW523) whose size is huge (apart from
the cost).
Once again, I don't want to shut the doors just to X-10. I need an
easy to implement and unexpensive protocol to communicate over the
PLC. Even I can lay a data cable for this matter, because I have a
spare electrical tube between each pair of boxes I asked just for this
purpose. When I heard about X-10 I thought I wouldn't need to use the
spare tube, but now when I see the complexity, I do not discard using
it.
Someone mentioned Lonworks. Does it make my problem easy to solve?
Another commands protocol for remote switching over the PLC, or over a
dedicated data line which can be implemented mostly on one chip and
unexpensively?
|
---
Somehow, I seem to be missing something here.
What, specifically, do you want?
Somewhere upstream I thought I heard you ask for a way to transmit the
state of eight dipswitches to a remote location using the power line
as a communications medium. Is that all you want, or is there more to
it?
--
John Fields |
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|
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Eduardo Gimeno
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Feb 15, 2005 1:52 pm Post subject:
Re: OEM chips for X-10 available? |
|
|
John, what I need is the following:
I need to find some IC, Chip, module, etc... which performs all the
protocol/signal processing/... for transmitting control information
over a line. At first I was proposing PLC, because I read something
about X-10 and seemed OK. But now, I can assume using a dedicated line
because I have an empty spare electrical tube along all the house.
I just want to have all the stuff X-10 does. I.e: Remote
lamp/appliance switching, remote IR detection, automated house control
from a computer, etc...
I will not make any commercial product. I just want to spend my time
doing some useful installation at my own home.
I would like to find a small and cheap module/ic which I can fit in a
reduced size PCB of my own with a microcontroller (programmed by me)
to install in the wall switches and plugs. I can use SMD components.
What I said about using dipswitches an so on was: I would like to find
a very simple to use IC, which, for example, would have some pins to
select the station (ie 8 external dipswitches), 2 pins for the signal
from the line, and some pins for the processed command, which I could
feed to my microcontroller. I now I am asking for too much... but
maybe someone knows something which seems to this.
I do not discard using the microcontroller itself to implement the
whole protocol over a serial port, anyhow.
Regards and thanks to everyone for your replies!
Eduardo.
| Quote: | Somehow, I seem to be missing something here.
What, specifically, do you want?
Somewhere upstream I thought I heard you ask for a way to transmit the
state of eight dipswitches to a remote location using the power line
as a communications medium. Is that all you want, or is there more to
it? |
|
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|
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Eduardo Gimeno
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:20 pm Post subject:
Re: OEM chips for X-10 available? |
|
|
"Brian" <bmurtha@zworld.com> wrote in message
| Quote: | I don't know about an "all-in-one" chip. It would have to handle 120V
or 220V power input to synchronize with the zero crossing. The PL513,
TW523, LM465 and CM17A units that X-10 sells are fairly cheap. But
you'll need a TW723 (or is it TW7223?) for 220V, 50Hz systems, if
that's what Spain uses.
|
Brian, if I use TW-XXX I cannot embed it into the wall switch or plug,
due to the huge size of the module. As I stated before, I can use a
dedicated line, so I can avoid all the stuff about zero-crossing and
so on. I have quite much experience on ATMega microcontrollers, also
quite much on SGS-Thomson (ST-62XX) and some on PICs. I would need to
find the simplest and smallest one having serial port and at least 12
IOs (8 for station ID dips), 2 for serial port, and 2 for command
in/out...
Regards,
Eduardo.
|
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Andrew Burgess
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Feb 15, 2005 5:05 pm Post subject:
Re: OEM chips for X-10 available? |
|
|
John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> writes:
| Quote: | As far as getting the signal on the line goes, it's pretty simple;
just capacitively couple a high-frequency tone burst signal onto the
mains using a frequency far enough displaced from the mains frequency
that the capacitor looks like a very large reactance to the mains
frequency while being small enough to let your signalling frequency
pass, like this:
|
Can you do this without a transformer?
And if not, can you use a cheap off the shelf or surplus xfmr? |
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John Fields
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Feb 15, 2005 5:44 pm Post subject:
Re: OEM chips for X-10 available? |
|
|
On 14 Feb 2005 23:52:02 -0800, edugimeno@hotmail.com (Eduardo Gimeno)
wrote:
| Quote: | John, what I need is the following:
I need to find some IC, Chip, module, etc... which performs all the
protocol/signal processing/... for transmitting control information
over a line. At first I was proposing PLC, because I read something
about X-10 and seemed OK. But now, I can assume using a dedicated line
because I have an empty spare electrical tube along all the house.
I just want to have all the stuff X-10 does. I.e: Remote
lamp/appliance switching, remote IR detection, automated house control
from a computer, etc...
I will not make any commercial product. I just want to spend my time
doing some useful installation at my own home.
I would like to find a small and cheap module/ic which I can fit in a
reduced size PCB of my own with a microcontroller (programmed by me)
to install in the wall switches and plugs. I can use SMD components.
What I said about using dipswitches an so on was: I would like to find
a very simple to use IC, which, for example, would have some pins to
select the station (ie 8 external dipswitches), 2 pins for the signal
from the line, and some pins for the processed command, which I could
feed to my microcontroller. I now I am asking for too much... but
maybe someone knows something which seems to this.
I do not discard using the microcontroller itself to implement the
whole protocol over a serial port, anyhow.
|
---
If you already know how to work with microcontrollers, why not roll
your own?
As far as getting the signal on the line goes, it's pretty simple;
just capacitively couple a high-frequency tone burst signal onto the
mains using a frequency far enough displaced from the mains frequency
that the capacitor looks like a very large reactance to the mains
frequency while being small enough to let your signalling frequency
pass, like this:
Here's a link to some X10 technical documents:
http://www.x10.com/support/technology1.htm
--
John Fields |
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Keith Williams
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Feb 15, 2005 7:58 pm Post subject:
Re: OEM chips for X-10 available? |
|
|
In article <191432c8.0502142352.14e76a2e@posting.google.com>,
edugimeno@hotmail.com says...
| Quote: | John, what I need is the following:
I need to find some IC, Chip, module, etc... which performs all the
protocol/signal processing/... for transmitting control information
over a line. At first I was proposing PLC, because I read something
about X-10 and seemed OK. But now, I can assume using a dedicated line
because I have an empty spare electrical tube along all the house.
I just want to have all the stuff X-10 does. I.e: Remote
lamp/appliance switching, remote IR detection, automated house control
from a computer, etc...
I will not make any commercial product. I just want to spend my time
doing some useful installation at my own home.
I would like to find a small and cheap module/ic which I can fit in a
reduced size PCB of my own with a microcontroller (programmed by me)
to install in the wall switches and plugs. I can use SMD components.
What I said about using dipswitches an so on was: I would like to find
a very simple to use IC, which, for example, would have some pins to
select the station (ie 8 external dipswitches), 2 pins for the signal
from the line, and some pins for the processed command, which I could
feed to my microcontroller. I now I am asking for too much... but
maybe someone knows something which seems to this.
I do not discard using the microcontroller itself to implement the
whole protocol over a serial port, anyhow.
|
I'd think this through some more.
1. House resale. X-10 stuff is pretty normal these days. X-10 outlets
and switches wouldn't scare anyone away. I'd not buy a house that had
DIY electrical components in it.
2. Legalities. Many areas have laws regarding what can be tied into
the mains. Your widgets aren't going to be UL/CSA/whatever approved.
3. Liability. If the house catches on fire or someone gets hurt...
4. Insurance. If the house catches on fire you don't have any. If the
insurance company even finds out you have a modified system and
unapproved equipment, you don't have any.
Personally, I'd find another hobby or at least stick with X10/Leviton
devices connected into the mains. I wouldn't be so worried about
things that plug in, though even here I'd be using approved wall warts,
if at all possible.
--
Keith |
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Rich Grise
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Feb 16, 2005 1:50 am Post subject:
Re: OEM chips for X-10 available? |
|
|
On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 23:52:02 -0800, Eduardo Gimeno wrote:
| Quote: | John, what I need is the following:
I need to find some IC, Chip, module, etc... which performs all the
protocol/signal processing/... for transmitting control information
over a line. At first I was proposing PLC, because I read something
about X-10 and seemed OK. But now, I can assume using a dedicated line
because I have an empty spare electrical tube along all the house.
|
Then install an ethernet. Run Cat 5 UTP through all of the conduit - you
could even use all 4 pairs, and have two actual RJ45s at each outlet, if
you want. You'd have to decide where your main hub is, and mount a jack
there for each one around the house, of course. (You can't daisy-chain
them.)
I can't imagine not being able to find some kind of simple ethernet
interface-on-a-chip, or for that matter, since they're your wires, you
could send something as simple as a contact closure, or 12 VDC to operate
a relay at the remote end.
Your boxes at the lamp end would just plug in like an X-10 box or RS
remote lamp box, but have just a relay, that plugs into the RJ45 jack that
you're using just to send 12V on one of the sets that doesn't use ethernet.
Or, you could plug in a computer and have a real live network. :-)
And since the wall plates just have RJ45s, and it's cat 5 in the conduit,
there's no code to worry about, and you might even _increase_ the
resale value of the house! ("... and this is the Server Room..." ;-) )
Have Fun!
Rich |
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Reg
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Feb 16, 2005 2:32 am Post subject:
Re: OEM chips for X-10 available? |
|
|
Rich Grise wrote:
| Quote: | And since the wall plates just have RJ45s, and it's cat 5 in the conduit,
there's no code to worry about, and you might even _increase_ the
resale value of the house! ("... and this is the Server Room..." ;-) )
|
Interestingly, I just got finished with a San Francisco city inspector
looking at some new AC wiring, and the project also involved running some
cat5.
According to them, the 2002 NEC regs will take effect in August. They
said that had the work taken place after that I would be required to get
specific permits for the "communications" wire.
--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com |
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