OEM chips for X-10 available?
Electronics Forum Index Electronics
Circuits, theory, electrons and discussions.
 
 FAQFAQ   MemberlistMemberlist     RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
 
Google
 
Web ElectronicsHelp.net
OEM chips for X-10 available?
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Electronics Forum Index -> Design
Author Message
Eduardo Gimeno
Guest
Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:17 am    Post subject: OEM chips for X-10 available? Reply with quote
Hello.

I'm new on X10 and home automation, but have been on electronics for
several years.

I'm looking for some OEM module or "all-in-one" chip containing all
the circuitry for signal_processing->mo/dem->decoder for building my
own X-10 appliances. I can use several microcontrollers I have
experience on, and I just need some kind of asic IC or so to make all
the stuff regarding the X-10 protocol and interface with power line.

Any help would be appreciated, because I have not found anything yet
for this.

Many thanks in advance.

Eduardo Gimeno.
Spain

Back to top
mike
Guest
Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 3:40 am    Post subject: Re: OEM chips for X-10 available? Reply with quote
Eduardo Gimeno wrote:
Quote:
Hello.

I'm new on X10 and home automation, but have been on electronics for
several years.

I'm looking for some OEM module or "all-in-one" chip containing all
the circuitry for signal_processing->mo/dem->decoder for building my
own X-10 appliances. I can use several microcontrollers I have
experience on, and I just need some kind of asic IC or so to make all
the stuff regarding the X-10 protocol and interface with power line.

Any help would be appreciated, because I have not found anything yet
for this.

Many thanks in advance.

Eduardo Gimeno.
Spain

PicBasic Pro has macro functions to send/receive X10 commands with a
PIC. The X10 chip does the decoding but
you're gonna need an oscillator and line isolation components.
Unless you need a LOT of 'em, it's hard to imagine building one cheaper
than you can buy a module. If you're using a computer for the transmit
end, a firecracker module is the easiest way to go.
There's a ton of info on the web. Google is your friend.
mike


--
Return address is VALID.
Wanted, PCMCIA SCSI Card for HP m820 CDRW.
FS 500MHz Tek DSOscilloscope TDS540 Make Offer
http://nm7u.tripod.com/homepage/te.html
Wanted, 12.1" LCD for Gateway Solo 5300. Samsung LT121SU-121
Bunch of stuff For Sale and Wanted at the link below.
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Monitor/4710/
Back to top
Eduardo Gimeno
Guest
Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:32 pm    Post subject: Re: OEM chips for X-10 available? Reply with quote
Well, let's take another view.

I started talking about X-10 because it seems popular, and it made me
think I would find lots of info about it. But let's assume I have no
preference.

I only need to send/receive commands over the power line (in my case
es 220V 50Hz, Spain), and I need it with the simplest solution, in
terms of price and circuit simplicity.

I would like to know there is some IC which I can feed with the power
line signal (after some treatment), connect 8 dip switches to 8 pins
to fill the code, and receive a digital signal 0/1 on some other pin
(for a receiver, reverse for a transceiver).

Any other protocol available for this?

By the way, what is a firecracker???

Regards.,
Eduardo Gimeno


mike <spamme0@netscape.net> wrote in message news:<420931DF.10601@netscape.net>...
Quote:
Eduardo Gimeno wrote:
Hello.

I'm new on X10 and home automation, but have been on electronics for
several years.

I'm looking for some OEM module or "all-in-one" chip containing all
the circuitry for signal_processing->mo/dem->decoder for building my
own X-10 appliances. I can use several microcontrollers I have
experience on, and I just need some kind of asic IC or so to make all
the stuff regarding the X-10 protocol and interface with power line.

Any help would be appreciated, because I have not found anything yet
for this.

Many thanks in advance.

Eduardo Gimeno.
Spain

PicBasic Pro has macro functions to send/receive X10 commands with a
PIC. The X10 chip does the decoding but
you're gonna need an oscillator and line isolation components.
Unless you need a LOT of 'em, it's hard to imagine building one cheaper
than you can buy a module. If you're using a computer for the transmit
end, a firecracker module is the easiest way to go.
There's a ton of info on the web. Google is your friend.
mike


Back to top
Joerg
Guest
Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 1:13 am    Post subject: Re: OEM chips for X-10 available? Reply with quote
Hello Eduardo,

Quote:
I only need to send/receive commands over the power line (in my case
es 220V 50Hz, Spain), and I need it with the simplest solution, in
terms of price and circuit simplicity.



It depends on how reliable it has to be. Personally I would not control
anything critical with X10. Other than that it works for us.

Quote:
Any other protocol available for this?



Several, such as Lonworks. But then it gets expensive.

Quote:
By the way, what is a firecracker???



A device that plugs into your PC. It sends X10 RF commands to the
wireless transceiver instead of using a powerline modem like we do.

Whatever you do, make sure it is geared towards 50Hz. The X10 modules we
are using in the US are set for 60Hz. For a reasonable signal to noise
ratio you need to have the 120kHz bursts of X10 happen at the zero
crossing. Or at least near those.

Saludos, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com
Back to top
mike
Guest
Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 2:22 am    Post subject: Re: OEM chips for X-10 available? Reply with quote
Eduardo Gimeno wrote:
Quote:
Well, let's take another view.

I started talking about X-10 because it seems popular, and it made me
think I would find lots of info about it. But let's assume I have no
preference.

I only need to send/receive commands over the power line (in my case
es 220V 50Hz, Spain), and I need it with the simplest solution, in
terms of price and circuit simplicity.

If you're building a zillion, that may be the right question to ask.
If you're building one, you're probably better off buying a solution.
Messing with the power line when you don't know what you're doing is
an invitation for a fire truck.

Quote:

I would like to know there is some IC which I can feed with the power
line signal (after some treatment),

And that "treatment" is the problem. Safety issues, reliability issues
for hardware and data.

You can buy devices that can connect your modem over the power line.
My experience was that the performance was horrible...when they worked
at all.


connect 8 dip switches to 8 pins
Quote:
to fill the code, and receive a digital signal 0/1 on some other pin
(for a receiver, reverse for a transceiver).

Any other protocol available for this?

By the way, what is a firecracker???

google firecracker x10, you can't miss it.
Sad that they're now $40. They used to give them away.

Quote:

Regards.,
Eduardo Gimeno


mike <spamme0@netscape.net> wrote in message news:<420931DF.10601@netscape.net>...

Eduardo Gimeno wrote:

Hello.

I'm new on X10 and home automation, but have been on electronics for
several years.

I'm looking for some OEM module or "all-in-one" chip containing all
the circuitry for signal_processing->mo/dem->decoder for building my
own X-10 appliances. I can use several microcontrollers I have
experience on, and I just need some kind of asic IC or so to make all
the stuff regarding the X-10 protocol and interface with power line.

Any help would be appreciated, because I have not found anything yet
for this.

Many thanks in advance.

Eduardo Gimeno.
Spain

PicBasic Pro has macro functions to send/receive X10 commands with a
PIC. The X10 chip does the decoding but
you're gonna need an oscillator and line isolation components.
Unless you need a LOT of 'em, it's hard to imagine building one cheaper
than you can buy a module. If you're using a computer for the transmit
end, a firecracker module is the easiest way to go.
There's a ton of info on the web. Google is your friend.
mike




--
Return address is VALID.
Wanted, PCMCIA SCSI Card for HP m820 CDRW.
FS 500MHz Tek DSOscilloscope TDS540 Make Offer
http://nm7u.tripod.com/homepage/te.html
Wanted, 12.1" LCD for Gateway Solo 5300. Samsung LT121SU-121
Bunch of stuff For Sale and Wanted at the link below.
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Monitor/4710/
Back to top
Andrew Gabriel
Guest
Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 2:59 am    Post subject: Re: OEM chips for X-10 available? Reply with quote
In article <yhtOd.3533$ZZ.3385@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net>,
Joerg <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> writes:
Quote:

Whatever you do, make sure it is geared towards 50Hz. The X10 modules we
are using in the US are set for 60Hz. For a reasonable signal to noise
ratio you need to have the 120kHz bursts of X10 happen at the zero
crossing. Or at least near those.

I've converted a few of the MC460 mini controllers to work from
240V just by changing the dropping and coupling capacitors (and
mains lead), and they work fine on 50Hz without any other mods.

--
Andrew Gabriel
Consultant Software Engineer
Back to top
Joerg
Guest
Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 3:17 am    Post subject: Re: OEM chips for X-10 available? Reply with quote
Hello Andrew,

Quote:
I've converted a few of the MC460 mini controllers to work from
240V just by changing the dropping and coupling capacitors (and
mains lead), and they work fine on 50Hz without any other mods.



It's been too long ago that I looked at the protocol. But I remember it
detected the zero crossing and placed the burst there, plus on
subsequently calculated three-phase crossings. So while it may work on
single phase it might not be that reliable when another module runs off
another phase, even when there is a bridge.

Thing is, in the US homes don't generally have three-phase power.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com
Back to top
Jim Thompson
Guest
Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 3:45 am    Post subject: Re: OEM chips for X-10 available? Reply with quote
On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 21:17:25 GMT, Joerg
<notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

Quote:
Hello Andrew,

I've converted a few of the MC460 mini controllers to work from
240V just by changing the dropping and coupling capacitors (and
mains lead), and they work fine on 50Hz without any other mods.



It's been too long ago that I looked at the protocol. But I remember it
detected the zero crossing and placed the burst there, plus on
subsequently calculated three-phase crossings. So while it may work on
single phase it might not be that reliable when another module runs off
another phase, even when there is a bridge.

Thing is, in the US homes don't generally have three-phase power.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

69th Place between Oak and Thomas in old-town Scottsdale, AZ, has
three-phase power. Makes for very efficient A/C. I lived there from
1964 thru 1969.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Back to top
Joerg
Guest
Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 4:24 am    Post subject: Re: OEM chips for X-10 available? Reply with quote
Hello Jim,

Quote:
69th Place between Oak and Thomas in old-town Scottsdale, AZ, has
three-phase power. Makes for very efficient A/C. I lived there from
1964 thru 1969.



Lucky you. We live in a house with 200 amp two-phase. Out here they are
all two-phase. When I turn on a big analyzer some of the lights dim and
others brighten for a split second. Sometimes I have to ask my wife not
to turn on the vacuum cleaner just yet, or plug it in somewhere else.

We had three phases in our house in Germany. 380V/63A, plus another for
the heat pump. Boy, did I get spoiled by that. Just imagine, 230V and
16-25 amps per circuit (and 7 cents per kilowatthour...). Now I have to
account for all the printers, copiers and so on to make sure I don't
exceed about 2000 watts per circuit. Else I'll be scurrying for the
flashlight after clicking the print button.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com
Back to top
Jack Ak
Guest
Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 5:20 am    Post subject: Re: OEM chips for X-10 available? Reply with quote
"Joerg" <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote in message news:j4wOd.3569$ZZ.232@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...
Quote:
Hello Jim,

69th Place between Oak and Thomas in old-town Scottsdale, AZ, has
three-phase power. Makes for very efficient A/C. I lived there from
1964 thru 1969.



Lucky you. We live in a house with 200 amp two-phase. Out here they are
all two-phase. When I turn on a big analyzer some of the lights dim and
others brighten for a split second. Sometimes I have to ask my wife not
to turn on the vacuum cleaner just yet, or plug it in somewhere else.


Are you sure that house doesn't have "split phase"? Split phase is single phase
240 volt service split into two 120v circuits. Look at the label in your power meter.
The 240 volts is available for clothes dryers and ovens or burner top ranges.
Back to top
John Woodgate
Guest
Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 5:44 am    Post subject: Re: OEM chips for X-10 available? Reply with quote
I read in sci.electronics.design that Jack Ak <akjack@excite.com> wrote
(in <PUwOd.2648$lz5.538@newssvr24.news.prodigy.net>) about 'OEM chips
for X-10 available?', on Wed, 9 Feb 2005:

Quote:
Are you sure that house doesn't have "split phase"? Split phase is
single phase 240 volt service split into two 120v circuits. Look at the
label in your power meter. The 240 volts is available for clothes dryers
and ovens or burner top ranges.

The arguments over whether 120-0-120 is 'two phase' or 'split phase' is
interminable and futile. It's both, depending on how you define it. I
think we can rule out 'neither', but I'm not 100% sure.(;-)
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk
Back to top
Joerg
Guest
Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 5:55 am    Post subject: Re: OEM chips for X-10 available? Reply with quote
Hello Jack,

Quote:
Are you sure that house doesn't have "split phase"? Split phase is single phase
240 volt service split into two 120v circuits. Look at the label in your power meter.
The 240 volts is available for clothes dryers and ovens or burner top ranges.



Yes, sorry for not being specific, it is split phase. The utility guys
still called it two-phase. We do have 240V for large appliances.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com
Back to top
Joerg
Guest
Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 6:58 am    Post subject: Re: OEM chips for X-10 available? Reply with quote
Hello John,

Quote:
The arguments over whether 120-0-120 is 'two phase' or 'split phase' is
interminable and futile. It's both, depending on how you define it. I
think we can rule out 'neither', but I'm not 100% sure.(;-)



True. But Jack has a point. We do have three phase at the 10KV level.
The individual transformers are hooked up to two wires each, in a round
robin fashion along the HV line to even out the load.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com
Back to top
Jerry Avins
Guest
Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 8:41 am    Post subject: Re: OEM chips for X-10 available? Reply with quote
John Woodgate wrote:

Quote:
I read in sci.electronics.design that Jack Ak <akjack@excite.com> wrote
(in <PUwOd.2648$lz5.538@newssvr24.news.prodigy.net>) about 'OEM chips
for X-10 available?', on Wed, 9 Feb 2005:


Are you sure that house doesn't have "split phase"? Split phase is
single phase 240 volt service split into two 120v circuits. Look at the
label in your power meter. The 240 volts is available for clothes dryers
and ovens or burner top ranges.


The arguments over whether 120-0-120 is 'two phase' or 'split phase' is
interminable and futile. It's both, depending on how you define it. I
think we can rule out 'neither', but I'm not 100% sure.(;-)

True 2-phase power is rare nowadays, When it's supplied at all, it's
supplied as two 220V split-phase circuits in quadrature. There are still
some 20phase motors around, but they are run from Scott T transformers.
In New York City, the power company must supply three-phase power on
request. When my cousins built adjacent houses in Staten Island and
insisted on 3-phase power, it was provided from a Scott T that tied into
a nearby two-phase feeder. Later, that feed was changed over to
three-phase ans the transformer bank eliminated.

For systems with line-to-neutral voltages of 120, split phase is 240
line-to-line, 2 phase is 170, and 2 drops from three phases on the pole
-- a common residential service in three-phase areas -- is 208. (208
volt single-phase home appliances are available.)

Jerry
--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
Back to top
John Woodgate
Guest
Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 8:41 am    Post subject: Re: OEM chips for X-10 available? Reply with quote
I read in sci.electronics.design that Jerry Avins <jya@ieee.org> wrote
(in <JJidnR0FVvPYcJffRVn-qA@rcn.net>) about 'OEM chips for X-10
available?', on Thu, 10 Feb 2005:

Quote:
True 2-phase power is rare nowadays,

'2 phase' in itself doesn't demand that the interphase angle is 90
degrees. I SAID that argument was pointless.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk
Back to top
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Electronics Forum Index -> Design All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
 You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



Home & Living New Topics
Contact Us
Powered by phpBB