| Author |
Message |
Gireesh
Guest
|
 Posted:
Mon Feb 07, 2005 6:35 pm Post subject:
Powerline modem |
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Hi all,
I'm engaged in designing a powerline modem. and i'm in search of a
perfect IC for that.
I found HCPL800J DAA with DSP56F801 PLM ?
Is there any one who worked on this ?
Can abnybody suggest me better ICs ?
I need a range of atleat 1 km and the application is Automatic meter
reading
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Rick Merrill
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:37 pm Post subject:
Re: Powerline modem |
|
|
Gireesh wrote:
| Quote: | Hi all,
I'm engaged in designing a powerline modem. and i'm in search of a
perfect IC for that.
I found HCPL800J DAA with DSP56F801 PLM ?
Is there any one who worked on this ?
Can abnybody suggest me better ICs ?
I need a range of atleat 1 km and the application is Automatic meter
reading
|
If you have a EE PHD from MIT, go for it. Do you realize that the high
fequency transmission characteristics of most peoples "powerline"
changes constantly and essentially randomly? - RM |
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Joerg
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Feb 08, 2005 5:00 am Post subject:
Re: Powerline modem |
|
|
Hello Rick,
| Quote: | If you have a EE PHD from MIT, go for it. Do you realize that the high
fequency transmission characteristics of most peoples "powerline"
changes constantly and essentially randomly? - RM
|
For power metering it seems that the OP only needs a very narrow channel
bandwidth. The challenge will be mostly in the analog and filter design
arena but it can be done. Then, of course, there are the transformers
that need to be bridged.
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com
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Jim Thompson
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Feb 08, 2005 5:27 am Post subject:
Re: Powerline modem |
|
|
On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 23:00:32 GMT, Joerg
<notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:
| Quote: | Hello Rick,
If you have a EE PHD from MIT, go for it. Do you realize that the high
fequency transmission characteristics of most peoples "powerline"
changes constantly and essentially randomly? - RM
For power metering it seems that the OP only needs a very narrow channel
bandwidth. The challenge will be mostly in the analog and filter design
arena but it can be done. Then, of course, there are the transformers
that need to be bridged.
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com
|
The two remote electric power measurement schemes I know of:
(1) RF transmitter at your meter, "neighborhood" receiver located on a
pole, then connection to phone lines.
(2) Modem connection between your meter and *your* phone line. Power
company polls your modem.
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food. |
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Don Lancaster
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Feb 08, 2005 7:02 am Post subject:
Re: Powerline modem |
|
|
Jim Thompson wrote:
| Quote: | On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 23:00:32 GMT, Joerg
notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:
Hello Rick,
If you have a EE PHD from MIT, go for it. Do you realize that the high
fequency transmission characteristics of most peoples "powerline"
changes constantly and essentially randomly? - RM
For power metering it seems that the OP only needs a very narrow channel
bandwidth. The challenge will be mostly in the analog and filter design
arena but it can be done. Then, of course, there are the transformers
that need to be bridged.
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com
The two remote electric power measurement schemes I know of:
(1) RF transmitter at your meter, "neighborhood" receiver located on a
pole, then connection to phone lines.
(2) Modem connection between your meter and *your* phone line. Power
company polls your modem.
...Jim Thompson
|
I guess I was involved in the earliest of powerline carrier
communications. Back in 1961 at Femco.
It did not work then and it will not work now.
Ferinstance, an ancient Diablo 630 printer has such a good noise filter
that it takes out any X-10 device within 200 feet.
--
Many thanks,
Don Lancaster
Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552
voice: (928)428-4073 email: don@tinaja.com
Please visit my GURU's LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com |
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Rick Merrill
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Feb 08, 2005 7:58 am Post subject:
Re: Powerline modem |
|
|
Don Lancaster wrote:
| Quote: | Jim Thompson wrote:
On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 23:00:32 GMT, Joerg
notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:
Hello Rick,
If you have a EE PHD from MIT, go for it. Do you realize that the
high fequency transmission characteristics of most peoples
"powerline" changes constantly and essentially randomly? - RM
For power metering it seems that the OP only needs a very narrow
channel bandwidth. The challenge will be mostly in the analog and
filter design arena but it can be done. Then, of course, there are
the transformers that need to be bridged.
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com
The two remote electric power measurement schemes I know of:
(1) RF transmitter at your meter, "neighborhood" receiver located on a
pole, then connection to phone lines.
(2) Modem connection between your meter and *your* phone line. Power
company polls your modem.
...Jim Thompson
I guess I was involved in the earliest of powerline carrier
communications. Back in 1961 at Femco.
It did not work then and it will not work now.
Ferinstance, an ancient Diablo 630 printer has such a good noise filter
that it takes out any X-10 device within 200 feet.
|
There is work that has used cell phone methods to dynamically adapt the
power frequency to fit the power line characteristics. Remember, anytime
an expert says something can be done, he/she is probably right; and
anytime an expert says something can not be done, he/she is probably
wrong. - Rm |
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Dave Houston
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Feb 08, 2005 8:07 am Post subject:
Re: Powerline modem |
|
|
Don Lancaster <don@tinaja.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Jim Thompson wrote:
On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 23:00:32 GMT, Joerg
notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:
Hello Rick,
If you have a EE PHD from MIT, go for it. Do you realize that the high
fequency transmission characteristics of most peoples "powerline"
changes constantly and essentially randomly? - RM
For power metering it seems that the OP only needs a very narrow channel
bandwidth. The challenge will be mostly in the analog and filter design
arena but it can be done. Then, of course, there are the transformers
that need to be bridged.
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com
The two remote electric power measurement schemes I know of:
(1) RF transmitter at your meter, "neighborhood" receiver located on a
pole, then connection to phone lines.
(2) Modem connection between your meter and *your* phone line. Power
company polls your modem.
...Jim Thompson
I guess I was involved in the earliest of powerline carrier
communications. Back in 1961 at Femco.
It did not work then and it will not work now.
Ferinstance, an ancient Diablo 630 printer has such a good noise filter
that it takes out any X-10 device within 200 feet.
|
http://www.archnetco.com/
http://www.sei.co.jp/sn/2004/327/feature_article.html
http://www.advanceddd.com/ADD1010.htm
http://focus.ti.com/docs/toolsw/folders/print/plc-emeter.html
http://www.yitran.com/
http://vchips.co.kr/eng_product/system.html
http://www.oakvillehydro.com/ohesi_business_meters_quadlogic_utility.asp |
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Joerg
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Feb 08, 2005 8:33 am Post subject:
Re: Powerline modem |
|
|
Hi Don,
| Quote: | It did not work then and it will not work now.
|
Not for broadband. But for low BW communication it can.
| Quote: | Ferinstance, an ancient Diablo 630 printer has such a good noise
filter that it takes out any X-10 device within 200 feet.
|
Even a brandnew color printer/scanner did that out here. Had to crack
out the toroid box and give it an individual choke per wire plus a cap
which fixed the problem. Lots of people in our neighborhood keep stashes
of Aspirin or Tylenol. I maintain a bucket of $43 toroids.
But remember, X10 is an ancient AM protocol with little noise tolerance.
Then I found that almost all modules were off from carrier frequency so
after tuning them all up this increased liability greatly. If a suitable
multi-frequency narrowband protocol was adopted this kind of appliance
control would work like a champ. It's just that nobody seems to do it,
they don't see the market potential..
As to power metering I probably would first sit down with the financial
people of a cell phone carrier. It doesn't take a lot of their currency
(kb/sec) per account to transfer a meter reading.
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com |
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James Knott
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Feb 08, 2005 8:40 am Post subject:
Re: Powerline modem |
|
|
Joerg wrote:
| Quote: | Lots of people in our neighborhood keep stashes
of Aspirin or Tylenol. I maintain a bucket of $43 toroids.
|
Aren't they hard to swallow? ;-) |
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Joerg
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Feb 08, 2005 8:40 am Post subject:
Re: Powerline modem |
|
|
Hello James,
| Quote: | Lots of people in our neighborhood keep stashes
of Aspirin or Tylenol. I maintain a bucket of $43 toroids.
Aren't they hard to swallow? ;-)
|
Don't know. But maybe they'll come out with #43 material with a
Cranberry taste...
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com |
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Peter
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Feb 09, 2005 8:29 am Post subject:
Re: Powerline modem |
|
|
On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 23:00:32 GMT, Joerg
<notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:
| Quote: | Hello Rick,
If you have a EE PHD from MIT, go for it. Do you realize that the high
fequency transmission characteristics of most peoples "powerline"
changes constantly and essentially randomly? - RM
For power metering it seems that the OP only needs a very narrow channel
bandwidth. The challenge will be mostly in the analog and filter design
arena but it can be done. Then, of course, there are the transformers
that need to be bridged.
With very low channel width and appropriate signalling you do not need |
to bridge transformers. However if complex tariffs are envisaged
there may be a need for transmitting up to 24 readings a day per meter
and this may be beyond such systems. |
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Ron Hunter
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Feb 09, 2005 8:40 am Post subject:
Re: Powerline modem |
|
|
John wrote:
| Quote: | Don Lancaster wrote:
I guess I was involved in the earliest of powerline carrier
communications. Back in 1961 at Femco.
It did not work then and it will not work now.
Ferinstance, an ancient Diablo 630 printer has such a good noise filter
that it takes out any X-10 device within 200 feet.
Powerline communications doesn't work in the 21st century? Really? Gosh
somebody forgot to tell these people:
http://www.powerlinecommunications.net/whatispowerline.htm
PPL has had running broadband Internet over powerline services in select
markets for a few years now. Some other utilties have similar programs.
http://www.thestreet.com/_tsclsii/tech/themarker/10045487.html
Utilities not only have another revenue stream and an efficient Internet
distribution method, but also gain the benefit of a communications channel
to/from their meters.
The ARRL (amateur radio group) has spoken out against some powerline
communications, out of fears that it will cause interference to them.
The main bar to this type of information distribution is the need to |
bridge transformers along the entire data path. This adds cost (and
service delaying infrastructure) to what would otherwise be an already
'in place' data path. It certainly has advantages in simplicity over
other services.
--
Ron Hunter rphunter@charter.net |
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Peter
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Feb 09, 2005 8:40 am Post subject:
Re: Powerline modem |
|
|
On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 23:12:19 -0500, John <john_t@no.spam> wrote:
| Quote: | The ARRL (amateur radio group) has spoken out against some powerline
communications, out of fears that it will cause interference to them.
Wideband power line systems are effectively wireless systems that use |
power lines as a rather crude handrail. |
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John
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Feb 09, 2005 8:40 am Post subject:
Re: Powerline modem |
|
|
Don Lancaster wrote:
| Quote: | I guess I was involved in the earliest of powerline carrier
communications. Back in 1961 at Femco.
It did not work then and it will not work now.
Ferinstance, an ancient Diablo 630 printer has such a good noise filter
that it takes out any X-10 device within 200 feet.
|
Powerline communications doesn't work in the 21st century? Really? Gosh
somebody forgot to tell these people:
http://www.powerlinecommunications.net/whatispowerline.htm
PPL has had running broadband Internet over powerline services in select
markets for a few years now. Some other utilties have similar programs.
http://www.thestreet.com/_tsclsii/tech/themarker/10045487.html
Utilities not only have another revenue stream and an efficient Internet
distribution method, but also gain the benefit of a communications channel
to/from their meters.
The ARRL (amateur radio group) has spoken out against some powerline
communications, out of fears that it will cause interference to them. |
|
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Ken Smith
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:43 pm Post subject:
Re: Powerline modem |
|
|
In article <i4uf01doft60n1f23rt4ep34kf7b8o5d6u@4ax.com>,
Jim Thompson <thegreatone@example.com> wrote:
[...]
| Quote: | (1) RF transmitter at your meter, "neighborhood" receiver located on a
pole, then connection to phone lines.
(2) Modem connection between your meter and *your* phone line. Power
company polls your modem.
|
I'll add:
(3) An RF responder that is pinged from a truck going down the street.
I know, some places use this for water meters, but I expect that someone
has done it for power meters.
--
--
kensmith@rahul.net forging knowledge |
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