Interesting chart from Lawrence Livermore
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Interesting chart from Lawrence Livermore
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John Fields
Guest
Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 1:46 am    Post subject: Interesting chart from Lawrence Livermore Reply with quote
Picked this up on vortex-l@eskimo.com (Bill Beaty's list)

http://www.theenergyguy.com/USEnFlow00-quads.pdf
--
John Fields

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Jonathan Kirwan
Guest
Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 1:54 am    Post subject: Re: Interesting chart from Lawrence Livermore Reply with quote
On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 13:46:06 -0600, John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com>
wrote:

Quote:
Picked this up on vortex-l@eskimo.com (Bill Beaty's list)

http://www.theenergyguy.com/USEnFlow00-quads.pdf

Wow! Very pretty! Needs some animation, though. ;)

Jon
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martin griffith
Guest
Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 1:56 am    Post subject: Re: Interesting chart from Lawrence Livermore Reply with quote
On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 13:46:06 -0600, in sci.electronics.design John
Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

Quote:
Picked this up on vortex-l@eskimo.com (Bill Beaty's list)

http://www.theenergyguy.com/USEnFlow00-quads.pdf

Ah the black art of confusion.

I just wondered who the intended audience was, and

is there a better expalnation of "rejected energy" and

do all the figures add up to 100%, which I leave as an exercise for
the reader


martin

Serious error.
All shortcuts have disappeared.
Screen. Mind. Both are blank.

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Dr Chris Andrews
Guest
Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 3:28 am    Post subject: Re: Interesting chart from Lawrence Livermore Reply with quote
I wonder what lost energy in transportation is? - about 4x the useful
energy!
- energy lost in the power grid?
- inefficiency in vehicle drives?

Must look up the original.

Interesting though.

Chris.


"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:iosc01t7hgpthdoelvfls9o5eimlbppklk@4ax.com...
Quote:
Picked this up on vortex-l@eskimo.com (Bill Beaty's list)

http://www.theenergyguy.com/USEnFlow00-quads.pdf
--
John Fields
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Joerg
Guest
Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 5:35 am    Post subject: Re: Interesting chart from Lawrence Livermore Reply with quote
Hello John,

Thanks! That is a pretty nifty diagram.

Sometimes I wonder about the sources for the data though. Example:
Biomass with a paltry 0.6% of all available energy sources supposedly
going into res/comm. Considering that lots of people here in the west
(including us) heat with wood stoves that seems low. For many households
the clear lion's share of energy consumed over a year's time is biomass.
It will be next to impossible to obtain accurate data tracking this kind
of fuel.

Oh, and our favorite brewpub is also heated with a goliath-size wood stove.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com
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Bill Bailley
Guest
Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 7:52 am    Post subject: Re: Interesting chart from Lawrence Livermore Reply with quote
"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:iosc01t7hgpthdoelvfls9o5eimlbppklk@4ax.com...
Quote:
Picked this up on vortex-l@eskimo.com (Bill Beaty's list)

http://www.theenergyguy.com/USEnFlow00-quads.pdf
--
John Fields
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Bill Bailley
Guest
Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 7:54 am    Post subject: Re: Interesting chart from Lawrence Livermore Reply with quote
"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:iosc01t7hgpthdoelvfls9o5eimlbppklk@4ax.com...
Quote:
Picked this up on vortex-l@eskimo.com (Bill Beaty's list)

http://www.theenergyguy.com/USEnFlow00-quads.pdf
--
John Fields

Very nicely done.

Perhaps another classic to stand alongside the London Underground map.

Bill.
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John Larkin
Guest
Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:15 am    Post subject: Re: Interesting chart from Lawrence Livermore Reply with quote
On Mon, 7 Feb 2005 12:54:52 +1100, "Bill Bailley" <JustMe@Home> wrote:

Quote:

"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:iosc01t7hgpthdoelvfls9o5eimlbppklk@4ax.com...
Picked this up on vortex-l@eskimo.com (Bill Beaty's list)

http://www.theenergyguy.com/USEnFlow00-quads.pdf
--
John Fields

Very nicely done.

Perhaps another classic to stand alongside the London Underground map.

Bill.


One of the great graphs of all time is Minard's map of Napoleon's
march to Moscow and back. In one simple drawing we see the location,
date, size of the army, and temperature. He started with 422,000 men
and finished back in Poland with about 10,000. Six variables are
plotted. It's in Tufte's great book "The Visual Display of
Quantitative Information."

John
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tlbs
Guest
Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 6:50 am    Post subject: Re: Interesting chart from Lawrence Livermore Reply with quote
Gasoline and diesel internal combustion engines are notoriously
inefficient, in a range between 5% to 15% efficiency. Most of the
wasted energy is heat out the radiator and the exhaust pipe.
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Rich Grise
Guest
Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 8:40 am    Post subject: Re: Interesting chart from Lawrence Livermore Reply with quote
On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 12:54:52 +1100, Bill Bailley wrote:

Quote:

"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:iosc01t7hgpthdoelvfls9o5eimlbppklk@4ax.com...
Picked this up on vortex-l@eskimo.com (Bill Beaty's list)

http://www.theenergyguy.com/USEnFlow00-quads.pdf
--
John Fields

Very nicely done.

Perhaps another classic to stand alongside the London Underground map.

Is it anything like the Tokyo train/el/subway system?


Thanks,
Rich
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Spehro Pefhany
Guest
Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 8:40 am    Post subject: Re: Interesting chart from Lawrence Livermore Reply with quote
On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 04:20:37 GMT, the renowned Rich Grise
<richgrise@example.net> wrote:

Quote:
On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 12:54:52 +1100, Bill Bailley wrote:


"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:iosc01t7hgpthdoelvfls9o5eimlbppklk@4ax.com...
Picked this up on vortex-l@eskimo.com (Bill Beaty's list)

http://www.theenergyguy.com/USEnFlow00-quads.pdf
--
John Fields

Very nicely done.

Perhaps another classic to stand alongside the London Underground map.

Is it anything like the Tokyo train/el/subway system?

Thanks,
Rich

Same order of magnitude. Both are zone systems. Tokyo is about twice
the population of London AFAIUI.

London: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/pdfdocs/colormap.pdf

Tokyo: http://www.bento.com/subtop5.html

Paris: http://www.ratp.info/picts/miniplan/metro120x84.pdf



Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
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Rich Grise
Guest
Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 8:40 am    Post subject: Re: Interesting chart from Lawrence Livermore Reply with quote
On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 23:41:18 -0500, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
Quote:
On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 04:20:37 GMT, the renowned Rich Grise
On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 12:54:52 +1100, Bill Bailley wrote:
"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message

http://www.theenergyguy.com/USEnFlow00-quads.pdf

Perhaps another classic to stand alongside the London Underground map.

Is it anything like the Tokyo train/el/subway system?

Thanks,
Rich

Same order of magnitude. Both are zone systems. Tokyo is about twice
the population of London AFAIUI.

London: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/pdfdocs/colormap.pdf

Tokyo: http://www.bento.com/subtop5.html

Paris: http://www.ratp.info/picts/miniplan/metro120x84.pdf


Cool! Thanks!
Rich
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Keith Williams
Guest
Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 8:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Interesting chart from Lawrence Livermore Reply with quote
In article <1107823820.059844.38140@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
tlbs101@excite.com says...
Quote:
Gasoline and diesel internal combustion engines are notoriously
inefficient, in a range between 5% to 15% efficiency. Most of the
wasted energy is heat out the radiator and the exhaust pipe.

IC engines are in the 30% efficiency range.


--
Keith
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Chris Carlen
Guest
Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 9:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Interesting chart from Lawrence Livermore Reply with quote
Keith Williams wrote:
Quote:
In article <1107823820.059844.38140@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
tlbs101@excite.com says...

Gasoline and diesel internal combustion engines are notoriously
inefficient, in a range between 5% to 15% efficiency. Most of the
wasted energy is heat out the radiator and the exhaust pipe.


IC engines are in the 30% efficiency range.

Even approaching 40%, for deisel. The trouble is, that this is only at
an ideal operating condition. So for use in a vehicle with varied
conditions, the overall long term average efficiency is somewhat less.


--
_______________________________________________________________________
Christopher R. Carlen
Principal Laser/Optical Technologist
Sandia National Laboratories CA USA
crcarle@sandia.gov -- NOTE: Remove "BOGUS" from email address to reply.
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Keith Williams
Guest
Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 10:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Interesting chart from Lawrence Livermore Reply with quote
In article <cuamjk11q6s@news4.newsguy.com>, crcarle@BOGUS.sandia.gov
says...
Quote:
Keith Williams wrote:
In article <1107823820.059844.38140@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
tlbs101@excite.com says...

Gasoline and diesel internal combustion engines are notoriously
inefficient, in a range between 5% to 15% efficiency. Most of the
wasted energy is heat out the radiator and the exhaust pipe.


IC engines are in the 30% efficiency range.

Even approaching 40%, for deisel. The trouble is, that this is only at
an ideal operating condition. So for use in a vehicle with varied
conditions, the overall long term average efficiency is somewhat less.

True, but hardly 5-15%.

--
Keith
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