| Author |
Message |
Spehro Pefhany
Guest
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 Posted:
Tue Feb 08, 2005 3:31 am Post subject:
Re: Albert Einstein |
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On Mon, 7 Feb 2005 21:10:04 +0000, the renowned John Woodgate
<jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote:
| Quote: | I read in sci.electronics.design that Kevin Aylward
salesEXTRACT@anasoft.co.uk> wrote (in <MOPNd.44084$K7.1630@fe2.news.blu
eyonder.co.uk>) about 'Albert Einstein', on Mon, 7 Feb 2005:
What additional set of fields did you have in mind?
John, Sid, Gracie, Killing....
|
Mrs., W.C., & Strawberry...
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
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Gregory L. Hansen
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Feb 08, 2005 3:41 am Post subject:
Re: Albert Einstein |
|
|
In article <MOPNd.44084$K7.1630@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
Kevin Aylward <salesEXTRACT@anasoft.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | Gregory L. Hansen wrote:
In article x3NNd.43361$K7.33499@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk,
|
[...]
| Quote: | Your description gave no hint that
an additional set of fields are needed, which is not the usual
formulation of QM.
What additional set of fields did you have in mind?
|
http://www.quantum.univie.ac.at/zeilinger/philosop.html
"An opposite position is assumed by the causal or ensemble interpretation
[...]
present work I am referring mainly to Bohm's position. According to Bohm,
the wave-function supplies an additional potential - the
quantum-potential, as he called it. This potential, when inserted into the
Hamilton-Jacobi-equation of classical physics, leads to well determined
trajectories of the individual particles."
[...]
| Quote: | It's classical particles following classical trajectories determined
by a new kind of classical field.
Nope. Nine. No. No. No.
As I said, you don't understand what the ensemble interpretation
actually is at all. I know where your coming from, there is classical
ensemble approach used in the past, but the ensemble described by
Ballentine, Einstein, has *absolutely* *nothing* to do with that
version. It certainly does *not* propose any trajectories for particles
in the slightest. You must be confusing the ensemble with some other
approach, like Bohmian mechanics.
|
So it would seem.
| Quote: |
The ensemble approach simple says, essentially, that the state vector
does not apply to an individual system. That's it. Trajectories are just
as undefined in the ensemble approach as they are in the standard
approach.
|
But didn't you just say that the uncertainty principle reflects ignorance
rather than indeterminacy? That an electron really doesn't "sample" an
extended region of a crystal?
[...]
| Quote: | You have that backwards. QED was derived from Maxwell's equations.
Maxwell's equations were used as a guide. QED contains more information
then Maxwell's equations. Sure, QED was *motivated* by Maxwell's
Equations as a tool, just as many equations are motivated by incorrect
ideas. What you are claiming is essentially, that the shrodinger
equation was derived from the Borh model of the hydrogen atom, which of
course, fails on other atoms.
|
In a typical textbook derivation we start out by deriving the Dirac
equation for a free particle, and add the electromagnetic interaction by
converting the partial derivative to a gauge covariant derivative. But
where did that gauge covariant derivative come from? It's the canonical
momentum from the Mawell Lagrangian. Not a quantum Maxwell Lagrangian,
there's only one. Not something similar to a Maxwell Lagrangian, not a
corrected version. It's straight out of classical field theory
with momentum in the position representation. But it does successfully
hide the role of Maxwell's equations from the student.
The approach not usually taken is that shown e.g. in Peskin & Schroeder
for the Klein-Gordon equation. They find the conjugate momentum density,
the wave equation, the conserved current, etc. It's really not classical
or quantum theory, it's just field theory, but it's the same wave
equation treated classically in Goldstein. By page 20 they Fourier
transform the field. Still not quantum.
They have an aside on the harmonic oscillator where the field and
momentum are put in terms of creation and annihilation operators. Still
not quantum. It's an interesting problem to solve the classical harmonic
oscillator by that approach. They write the SHO Hamiltonian as w(a^dag a
+ 1/2). That is sort of quantum; the 1/2 doesn't appear in the classical
problem because the classical a and a^dag commute.
Then they define the SHO state |n> = (a^dag)^n |0>. And define the
Klein-Gordon fields and momentum densities as operators with their own
a_p and a_p^dag.
NOW it is truly quantum. The equation of motion still looks exactly the
same, it's quantum because they defined |n> and the action of the field
operators on it.
I haven't seen a similar approach taken with the electromagnetic field,
but every approach takes a Lagrangian density or a canonical momentum
straight from the classical theory. From there, it is quantized by
working on the fields, not on the interaction. Maxwell's equations
weren't a motivation or a guide, they were a postulate.
By the way, from Newtonian mechanics,
E = p^2/2m + V(x)
Let E->i*hbar*d/dt, p->-i*hbar*d/dx, right-multiply both sides by a
psi(x), there's the undergrad Schroedinger's equation, essentially a
restatement of Newton's second law in a mechanics where the state is in a
Hilbert space rather than a phase space. The Klein-Gordon equation comes
the same way, from E^2 = p^2 + m^2.
Everybody thinks that as soon as you go quantum, everything classical goes
out the window. But it's still there.
[...]
| Quote: | Look mate, do Maxwell's Equations, as is, explain the photo electric
effect and black body radiation, or not?
Nothing you say changes these facts.
|
No, not as written, with the E and B taken as classical fields.
We're probably arguing some semantic point here. But I don't do "as
written". E.g. when I say "Maxwell's equations" I'm perfectly happy to
go with equations written in the four-vector formalism. As far as I'm
concerned, the Maxwell Lagrangian is as good as Maxwell's equations
because you get them when you minimize the action. Same with the Maxwell
Hamiltonian; find the Poisson bracket or the commutator of the field with
the Hamiltonian. All of that and more are just different representations
of the same physical content. When I talk about Maxwell's equations I
don't mean a specific set of equations, but the interaction described by
those equations.
And, well, darnit, the canonical momentum comes straight from the Maxwell
Lagrangian, which comes from Maxwell's equations. So when you say
Maxwell's equations are wrong, but then QED is derived with that canonical
momentum, I say no. QED is just using Maxwell's equations in a different
way. It's the field that is quantized, not the interaction.
| Quote: | You'd never know that after taking a course in quantum field theory.
Very little of that was probably covered in the classical course,
It was covered in my "advanced" mechanics course, e.g. H. Goldstein.
|
We did a lot with action-angle variables. I still don't know why. I've
come to feel that the graduate classical courses should essentially be
prep for QFT, but that's not really how it was approached at my school.
--
"Outside the camp you shall have a place set aside to be used as a
latrine. You shall keep a trowel in your equipment and with it, when you
go outside to ease nature, you shall first dig a hole and afterward cover
up your excrement." -- Deuteronomy 23:13-14 |
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Scott Stephens
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Feb 08, 2005 5:50 am Post subject:
Re: Albert Einstein |
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|
Scott Stephens wrote:
| Quote: | It was Euler who did the easy bit telling us how the five primary
mathematical constants [ j, pi, e, 0 and 1 ] are related.:
exp(jpi) + 1 = 0
Doesn't look like some mysterious confluence but a tautology.
....
So this looks like one of those cases where you take the same phenomena
involving something (like a circle), mess with it five different ways,
then find some correlation between the different observations you've
made of the same thing.
|
Oh, the shame of attending government schools! It's meaning is that if
you use the exp form and go around the unit circle (jpi) to -1, and add
1, you get zero. Indeed a geometric tautology. My cypherin has gotten
rusty =(
| Quote: | I wonder, which is more fundamental E = mc^2 or exp(jpi) + 1 = 0?
The answer is "mu", since these are apples and oranges.
|
They are both truths, one is a truth about nature, the other a truth
about truth.
--
**********************************
DIY Piezo-Gyro, PCB Drill Bot & More Soon!
http://home.comcast.net/~scottxs/
POLITICS, n.
A strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles.
The conduct of public affairs for private advantage. - Ambrose Bierce
**********************************
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Scott Stephens
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Feb 08, 2005 5:53 am Post subject:
Re: Albert Einstein |
|
|
bill.sloman@ieee.org wrote:
| Quote: | Your notorious intellectual inadequacies probably blind you to these
sorts of fine distinctions, but even you ought to be able to understand
that it is more difficult to compensate someone who has been falsely
convicted if they have been executed rather than locked away for life.
|
The thought that if I'm at the wrong place and time when corrupt police,
prosecutors, courts and politicians need a scapegoat or whipping boy,
that I might spend the rest of my life being sodomized by aids infected
gorillas rather than given a lethal injection greatly comforts me.
Thank-you for enlightening my inadequacy!
--
**********************************
DIY Piezo-Gyro, PCB Drill Bot & More Soon!
http://home.comcast.net/~scottxs/
POLITICS, n.
A strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles.
The conduct of public affairs for private advantage. - Ambrose Bierce
********************************** |
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Richard the Dreaded Liber
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Feb 08, 2005 8:05 am Post subject:
Re: Albert Einstein |
|
|
On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 16:43:08 +0000, Ken Smith wrote:
| Quote: | In article <l02f011urek65lt76msv2h1tvmmnv23nod@4ax.com>,
Jim Thompson <thegreatone@example.com> wrote:
[...]
I do think environment accounts for most of the difference. The
blacks have been their own worst enemy... their matriarchal structure
reeks havoc on black males.
This is something more specific to US blacks than blacks elsewhere in the
world. Slavery has left deep scars in both the black and white
sub-cultures in the US. With any luck, someone of mixed race will someday
stand up and say "Get over it! What your granddad did doesn't matter. It
is what you do with the hand you are dealt today that counts."
Perhaps we should have a law requiring everyone to marry outside their
race. We'd all end up chinese if we did.
The gang problem is primarily caused by "the war on drugs" which is a |
tacit war on blacks. Ultimately, the war on drugs is a war on everyone.
Thanks,
Rich |
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Richard the Dreaded Liber
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Feb 08, 2005 8:08 am Post subject:
Re: Albert Einstein |
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|
On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 20:00:29 +0000, Kevin Aylward wrote:
| Quote: | Jim Thompson wrote:
On Mon, 7 Feb 2005 16:43:08 +0000 (UTC), kensmith@green.rahul.net (Ken
Smith) wrote:
In article <l02f011urek65lt76msv2h1tvmmnv23nod@4ax.com>,
Jim Thompson <thegreatone@example.com> wrote:
[...]
I do think environment accounts for most of the difference. The
blacks have been their own worst enemy... their matriarchal
structure reeks havoc on black males.
This is something more specific to US blacks than blacks elsewhere
in the world. Slavery has left deep scars in both the black and
white sub-cultures in the US. With any luck, someone of mixed race
will someday stand up and say "Get over it! What your granddad did
doesn't matter. It is what you do with the hand you are dealt today
that counts."
Perhaps we should have a law requiring everyone to marry outside
their race. We'd all end up chinese if we did.
Inbreeding is, indeed, very bad.
Actually its not that bad. Popular misconception. For example, the
probability of having a good child in a normal relationship is around
99%, for one in an incestuous relationship, its 98%. So a 1% difference.
|
Kevin, you're manipulating your statistics wrong again.
If the probability of having a good child in a normal relationship is
99%, and 98% by inbreeding, then the "righteous" ones produce 1% defective
offspring, and the "sinners" produce 2% - A HUNDRED PERCENT INCREASE!
See how easy it is to manipulate the numbers? ;-)
Cheers!
Rich |
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keith
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Feb 08, 2005 8:40 am Post subject:
Re: Albert Einstein |
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|
On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 02:17:05 -0600, Scott Stephens wrote:
| Quote: | keith wrote:
Shockley *was* a jerk, but that didn't mean he was all
wrong either.
Liked to post his workers salaries, and encourage "competition" among them?
Of course in IL the _Rules_of_the_Road_ said that if someone took your
right-of-way, let them have it! (the '!' was an editorial comment)
Wasn't former guv lie'in Jim Ryan's buddies taking "contributions" from
illegal immigrant truck drivers to get their licenses, even though they
passed no test, couldn't drive, and one of them killed a family in
another state?
|
Dunno, I haven't lived there for 30+ years. I'm told he was quite the
crook though.
| Quote: | That's fine advice when you are here in the People's Republic!
|
You don't know what a "people's republic" is! I'll see your Ryan and
raise you a Leahy, Jeffords, Sanders, *and* a Dean!
| Quote: | He (Ryan)
also decided the judicial system was too corrupt to impose the death
penalty, and pardoned all of death row, so perhaps its better to just
stay off the streets =(
|
That's just so Clintoonian of him!
--
Keith |
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Kevin Aylward
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Feb 08, 2005 8:41 am Post subject:
Re: Albert Einstein |
|
|
Richard the Dreaded Libertarian wrote:
| Quote: | On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 20:00:29 +0000, Kevin Aylward wrote:
Jim Thompson wrote:
On Mon, 7 Feb 2005 16:43:08 +0000 (UTC), kensmith@green.rahul.net
(Ken Smith) wrote:
In article <l02f011urek65lt76msv2h1tvmmnv23nod@4ax.com>,
Jim Thompson <thegreatone@example.com> wrote:
[...]
I do think environment accounts for most of the difference. The
blacks have been their own worst enemy... their matriarchal
structure reeks havoc on black males.
This is something more specific to US blacks than blacks elsewhere
in the world. Slavery has left deep scars in both the black and
white sub-cultures in the US. With any luck, someone of mixed race
will someday stand up and say "Get over it! What your granddad did
doesn't matter. It is what you do with the hand you are dealt today
that counts."
Perhaps we should have a law requiring everyone to marry outside
their race. We'd all end up chinese if we did.
Inbreeding is, indeed, very bad.
Actually its not that bad. Popular misconception. For example, the
probability of having a good child in a normal relationship is around
99%, for one in an incestuous relationship, its 98%. So a 1%
difference.
Kevin, you're manipulating your statistics wrong again.
If the probability of having a good child in a normal relationship is
99%, and 98% by inbreeding, then the "righteous" ones produce 1%
defective offspring, and the "sinners" produce 2% - A HUNDRED PERCENT
INCREASE!
See how easy it is to manipulate the numbers? ;-)
|
I know about that. But a doubling is still irrelevant if its a low
number to start with. Claiming the doubling is significant is what is
the statistical lie.
Kevin Aylward
salesEXTRACT@anasoft.co.uk
http://www.anasoft.co.uk
SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design. |
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Kevin Aylward
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Feb 08, 2005 8:41 am Post subject:
Re: Albert Einstein |
|
|
Gregory L. Hansen wrote:
| Quote: | In article <MOPNd.44084$K7.1630@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
Kevin Aylward <salesEXTRACT@anasoft.co.uk> wrote:
Gregory L. Hansen wrote:
In article x3NNd.43361$K7.33499@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk,
[...]
Your description gave no hint that
an additional set of fields are needed, which is not the usual
formulation of QM.
What additional set of fields did you have in mind?
http://www.quantum.univie.ac.at/zeilinger/philosop.html
"An opposite position is assumed by the causal or ensemble
interpretation [...]
present work I am referring mainly to Bohm's position.
|
Yes, and as I have now explained, this "ensemble" has *absolutely*
nothing to do with the Einstein/Ballentine "ensemble".
According to
| Quote: | Bohm, the wave-function supplies an additional potential - the
quantum-potential, as he called it. This potential, when inserted
into the Hamilton-Jacobi-equation of classical physics, leads to well
determined trajectories of the individual particles."
|
Yes, and is also described in Ballentines book as an alternative to the
"quantum ensemble"
| Quote: |
[...]
It's classical particles following classical trajectories determined
by a new kind of classical field.
Nope. Nine. No. No. No.
As I said, you don't understand what the ensemble interpretation
actually is at all. I know where your coming from, there is classical
ensemble approach used in the past, but the ensemble described by
Ballentine, Einstein, has *absolutely* *nothing* to do with that
version. It certainly does *not* propose any trajectories for
particles in the slightest. You must be confusing the ensemble with
some other approach, like Bohmian mechanics.
So it would seem.
|
Yep. A common mistake.
| Quote: |
The ensemble approach simple says, essentially, that the state vector
does not apply to an individual system. That's it. Trajectories are
just as undefined in the ensemble approach as they are in the
standard approach.
But didn't you just say that the uncertainty principle reflects
ignorance rather than indeterminacy?
|
No. HUP represents an inability to predict a new position and momentum.
Whether its due to some sort of ignorance or inherent indeterminacy is
not known, in my view.
| Quote: | That an electron really doesn't
"sample" an extended region of a crystal?
|
I don't know what an electron does. All we have is the math. The math
gives the correct result. That's it.
| Quote: |
Let E->i*hbar*d/dt, p->-i*hbar*d/dx, right-multiply both sides by a
psi(x), there's the undergrad Schroedinger's equation, essentially a
restatement of Newton's second law in a mechanics where the state is
in a Hilbert space rather than a phase space. The Klein-Gordon
equation comes the same way, from E^2 = p^2 + m^2.
Everybody thinks that as soon as you go quantum, everything classical
goes out the window. But it's still there.
|
Yes. But why? We simply use the math that already exists. The failure of
a GUT may well be that we simply need new math. That is, everything cant
be explained with the existing tools.
| Quote: |
[...]
Look mate, do Maxwell's Equations, as is, explain the photo electric
effect and black body radiation, or not?
Nothing you say changes these facts.
No, not as written, with the E and B taken as classical fields.
We're probably arguing some semantic point here. But I don't do "as
written". E.g. when I say "Maxwell's equations" I'm perfectly happy
to go with equations written in the four-vector formalism. As far as
I'm concerned, the Maxwell Lagrangian is as good as Maxwell's
equations because you get them when you minimize the action. Same
with the Maxwell Hamiltonian; find the Poisson bracket or the
commutator of the field with the Hamiltonian. All of that and more
are just different representations of the same physical content.
When I talk about Maxwell's equations I don't mean a specific set of
equations, but the interaction described by those equations.
|
How does this change anything? The photon does not exist in Maxwell's
equations so it can't describe them. Radiation from an atom is by
photons, not continuous waves, as Maxwell's equations *demand*.
| Quote: |
And, well, darnit, the canonical momentum comes straight from the
Maxwell Lagrangian, which comes from Maxwell's equations. So when
you say Maxwell's equations are wrong, but then QED is derived with
that canonical momentum, I say no. QED is just using Maxwell's
equations in a different way. It's the field that is quantized, not
the interaction.
|
I think we will just have to disagree. For me, Maxwell's equations are
continuous differential equations describing "waves". They simply don't
explain how very low fields can eject an electron. The numbers are all
wrong.
| Quote: |
You'd never know that after taking a course in quantum field theory.
Very little of that was probably covered in the classical course,
It was covered in my "advanced" mechanics course, e.g. H. Goldstein.
We did a lot with action-angle variables. I still don't know why.
I've come to feel that the graduate classical courses should
essentially be prep for QFT, but that's not really how it was
approached at my school.
|
I agree. I admit that without the Goldstein background I would have had
a poor overall idea of just how QM fits in with CM.
Kevin Aylward
salesEXTRACT@anasoft.co.uk
http://www.anasoft.co.uk
SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design. |
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Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Feb 08, 2005 4:16 pm Post subject:
Re: Albert Einstein |
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|
Scott Stephens wrote:
| Quote: | bill.sloman@ieee.org wrote:
Your notorious intellectual inadequacies probably blind you to
these
sorts of fine distinctions, but even you ought to be able to
understand
that it is more difficult to compensate someone who has been
falsely
convicted if they have been executed rather than locked away for
life.
The thought that if I'm at the wrong place and time when corrupt
police,
prosecutors, courts and politicians need a scapegoat or whipping boy,
that I might spend the rest of my life being sodomized by aids
infected
gorillas rather than given a lethal injection greatly comforts me.
Thank-you for enlightening my inadequacy!
|
Do try to make up your feeble excuse for a mind.
How was Ryan was making the streets less safe when he "pardoned"
everybody on Death Row by commuting their sentences to life
imprisonment, if life imprisonment is a worse fate than execution?
This isn't your familiar right-wing prejudice parade - some of us have
enough functional brain cells left to remember elements of your
argument that you have deleted with the (usual) unmarked snip.
--------
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen |
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Emanual Kann
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:56 am Post subject:
Re: Albert Einstein |
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On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 02:17:05 -0600, nutjob repukelican, Scott Stephens
wrote:
| Quote: | keith wrote:
Wasn't former guv lie'in Jim Ryan's buddies taking "contributions" from
illegal immigrant truck drivers to get their licenses, even though they
passed no test, couldn't drive, and one of them killed a family in another
state?
|
No it was governor George Ryan (R). Attorney General, Jim Ryan (R), never
got to be governor. Not because he overlooked his boss's bribery income,
but because while States Attorney he falsified evidence in so many capital
cases cases that governor George had to put a moratorium on executions.
The convictions were all overturned using DNA technology that wasn't
available when the guys were convicted to prove that the States Attorney's
office fabricated evidence.
Don't confuse Jim (R) or George (R) with Jack (R), who's senate campaign
went down in flames because it came out in his divorce that he liked to
watch his wife have sex with other men in swinger clubs in Paris, New
Orleans, and New York. Jack (R) was replaced by Alan Keys (R) from
Maryland.
| Quote: |
That's fine advice when you are here in the People's Republic! He (Ryan)
also decided the judicial system was too corrupt to impose the death
penalty, and pardoned all of death row, so perhaps its better to just
stay off the streets =(
|
I know it's hard to keep all the corrupt Republicans named Ryan straight
in Illinois, but here's an easy way to remember:
Jack - like Jack Kennedy, sex scandal.
Jim - like Jim Beam, think of Judge Roy Bean, false convictions.
George - like George Bush - corruption. |
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Emanual Kann
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Feb 09, 2005 7:20 am Post subject:
Re: Albert Einstein |
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On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 01:20:08 -0800, nutjob repukelican, bill.sloman wrote:
| Quote: |
Really? My impression was that he found the judicial system fallible,
rather than corrupt, and that he commuted the death sentences to life
imprisonment, rather than pardoning anybody.
|
Your impression is only partially correct. George Ryan was forced
to put a moratorium on executions because there were so many
overturned convictions. What killed his political carrier was generic
Republican political machine graft. Some people get it confused because
it was Jim Ryan's illegal acts as states attorney that led to the
moratorium.
Attorney General Jim Ryan (R) destroyed his carrier when he was States
Attorney in DuPage County. He presided over the wrongful conviction of
two men in the rape-murder of a young girl, which lead to the indictment
of four DuPage County sheriff's deputies and three former prosecutors,
and malicious prosecution settlements for $3.5 million. Ryan had been told
that another man had confessed to the murder, and prosecuted anyway.
There were also a number of other capital convictions overturned by
DNA evidence. The moratorium on death was one of the bright spots in
George Ryan's 30 year carrier littered with acts of official corruption
and graft. Jack Ryan's carrier was killed by a sex scandal (he liked to
watch his wife have sex with strangers). Jack was replaced on the senate
ballot with Marylander Alan Keys. |
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Emanual Kann
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Feb 09, 2005 7:32 am Post subject:
Re: Albert Einstein |
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On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 02:16:25 -0800, nutjob repukelican, bill.sloman wrote:
| Quote: |
Do try to make up your feeble excuse for a mind. How was Ryan was making
the streets less safe when he "pardoned" everybody on Death Row by
commuting their sentences to life imprisonment, if life imprisonment is a
worse fate than execution?
|
Only the falsely convicted were pardoned. The remaining death row inmates
had their sentences commuted because so much prosecutorial misconduct was
discovered in the cases that were overturned. In 2000 George Ryan was
forced to act because 13 death row inmates were found to be wrongly
convicted. 12 were killed before they could be exonerated.
http://www.truthinjustice.org/haltdp.htm
Two of the 13 found to be wrongly convicted, two were railroaded by Jim
Ryan when he was States Attorney for DuPage County.
As attorney general, it was Jim Ryan's job to look into the George Ryan
scandal. Instead, he did nothing. As state's attorney, he presided over
the wrongful conviction of two men in the rape-murder of a young girl,
which lead to the indictment of four DuPage County sheriff's deputies
and three former prosecutors, and malicious prosecution settlements for
$3.5 million. Ryan had been told that another man had confessed to the
murder.
| Quote: |
This isn't your familiar right-wing prejudice parade - some of us have
enough functional brain cells left to remember elements of your argument
that you have deleted with the (usual) unmarked snip.
|
Bill, you can't even keep your Ryans straight. |
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Scott Stephens
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Feb 09, 2005 8:09 am Post subject:
Re: Albert Einstein |
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Emanual Kann wrote:
| Quote: | I know it's hard to keep all the corrupt Republicans named Ryan straight
in Illinois, but here's an easy way to remember:
Jack - like Jack Kennedy, sex scandal.
Jim - like Jim Beam, think of Judge Roy Bean, false convictions.
George - like George Bush - corruption.
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Thanks, that helps! I don't often have the courage to watch the Chicago
news or read the papers, I just here talk.
--
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DIY Piezo-Gyro, PCB Drill Bot & More Soon!
http://home.comcast.net/~scottxs/
POLITICS, n.
A strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles.
The conduct of public affairs for private advantage. - Ambrose Bierce
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Emanual Kann
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Feb 09, 2005 8:26 am Post subject:
Re: Albert Einstein |
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On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 22:19:31 -0500, nutjob repukelican, keith wrote:
| Quote: | On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 02:17:05 -0600, Scott Stephens wrote:
keith wrote:
Wasn't former guv lie'in Jim Ryan's buddies taking "contributions" from
illegal immigrant truck drivers to get their licenses, even though they
passed no test, couldn't drive, and one of them killed a family in
another state?
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Governor George Ryan (R), not Attorney General Jim Ryan (R).
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Dunno, I haven't lived there for 30+ years. I'm told he was quite the
crook though.
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That's just about how long George was taking graft for the Republican
political machine.
| Quote: | That's fine advice when you are here in the People's Republic!
You don't know what a "people's republic" is! I'll see your Ryan and
raise you a Leahy, Jeffords, Sanders, *and* a Dean!
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There are actually three Republicans Ryan:
George - graft
Jim - prosecutorial misconduct
Jack - sex
George, not Jim
| Quote: | also decided the judicial system was too corrupt to impose the death
penalty, and pardoned all of death row, so perhaps its better to just
stay off the streets =(
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Unfortunately, we may have more to worry about from the police than the
bad guys.
George Ryan didn't release anyone who was not already released through the
normal appeals process. He merely halted executions because the state
has such a bad record of wrongful convictions in capital cases ( 13
exonerated, 12 executed since 1977). It is really a high point of his
carrier. The state senate passed a moratorium which failed in the
Republican controlled house. George was using his power as Governor to do
what the Republicans in the house should have done. He was already a lame
duck because 30 years of generic Republican political machine graft became
public. His heir apparent, was Attorney General Jim Ryan.
Illinois' 13 exonerated Death Row inmates include men who served up to 18
years under a death sentence or came within days of execution. DNA tests
cleared some of the inmates, while other cases collapsed after being
reversed for new trials. Two were exonerated due to a malicious
prosecution by Jim Ryan (R) when he was the DuPage County states attorney.
That illegal prosecution cost the state $3.5 million in damages and
resulted in the indictment of four sheriff's deputies and three assistant
states attorneys. It also ended Jim Ryan's political carrier.
| Quote: |
That's just so Clintoonian of him!
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No that was carpet bagger Alan Keys, a Marylander who replaced Jack Ryan
on the senate ballot. Jack Ryan's political hopes went up in flames when
his wife disclosed in divorce proceedings that he forced her have sex with
strangers while he watched. He said it was consensual and dropped out of
the election. |
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