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Guest
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 Posted:
Tue May 24, 2005 4:35 pm Post subject:
Power 230V 50Hz 460watts on USA power, where to buy? |
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I have an automatic wash bay that is being shipped in from Italy. I've
received the custom computer circuits already for testing, and they are
powered at 230V 50HZ and draw ~1A X 2 devices.
These circuits are in a closed box and include a badge card reader, a
RS485 -> RS232 chip, various specialized computer chips, a lamp rated
at 50HZ, several relays including Omron MY2 220/240VAC (S) and a row of
other relays that I cannot identify, a pizzo for sound, several circuit
breakers, and a Telemecanique ABL7 RM1202 power converter that takes
100-240VAC and turns it into 12VDC.
Obviously the DC circuits are not a problem, but my concern is the
relays, and other potentially frequency sensitive parts. The AC input
junction directly feeds to several of these circuits.
While I am tempted to just buy a 110V -> 230V AC-AC converter, this is
not cheap hardware. I would rather purchase something that both
converts 110V to 230V and 60HZ to 50HZ.
I am not an electronics guy. I am a computer programmer. While I have
some electronics classes under by belt, I would want to purchase such
equipment. But I don't know where to look. Google searching has not
found me anything.
Any links?
Edwin Davidson
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Vidar Løkken
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue May 24, 2005 4:35 pm Post subject:
Re: Power 230V 50Hz 460watts on USA power, where to buy? |
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edavid3001@gmail.com wrote:
| Quote: | These circuits are in a closed box and include a badge card reader, a
RS485 -> RS232 chip, various specialized computer chips, a lamp rated
at 50HZ, several relays including Omron MY2 220/240VAC (S) and a row of
other relays that I cannot identify, a pizzo for sound, several circuit
breakers, and a Telemecanique ABL7 RM1202 power converter that takes
100-240VAC and turns it into 12VDC.
Obviously the DC circuits are not a problem, but my concern is the
relays, and other potentially frequency sensitive parts. The AC input
junction directly feeds to several of these circuits.
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Check the relays. Most relays I've seen say 50/60Hz. The lamp is not a
problem.
What other parts is there that feeds from AC?
I guess it'd work fine with 60Hz... Inductances will get less power at
60Hz, since the frequency is higher, but minimal difference. So you
won't burn anything I guess.
And the power converter takes 110VAC and turns into 12VDC, so it should
be fine with 110VAC.
--
MVH,
Vidar
www.bitsex.net |
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Fred McKenzie
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue May 24, 2005 11:20 pm Post subject:
Re: Power 230V 50Hz 460watts on USA power, where to buy? |
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In article <1116944823.932906.305250@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
edavid3001@gmail.com wrote:
| Quote: | I have an automatic wash bay that is being shipped in from Italy. I've
received the custom computer circuits already for testing, and they are
powered at 230V 50HZ and draw ~1A X 2 devices.
|
Edwin-
In most cases, equipment designed for 50 Hz should work at 60 Hz with no
problem. The trouble occurs when going the other way. A 60 Hz
transformer or relay coil may draw more current when fed with 50 Hz power
because they have less iron and/or less wire in them.
However, the relays might be part of a voltage-sensing system that
automatically switches the setup between 120 and 240 Volts. If so, a 240
Volt 50 Hz relay might respond to 120 Volts 60 Hz when it shouldn't.
The equipment you describe sounds like something that would be used in an
industrial setting. If you have a plant electrician or engineer to set up
the equipment, they should be able to provide the necessary power feed.
One thing to consider is using 240 Volts instead of 120, since the 120
Volts is normally half of a 240 circuit.
Fred
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awright
Joined: 20 May 2005
Posts: 10
Location: Oakland, CA USA
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| Posted:
Fri May 27, 2005 6:53 am Post subject:
Wash Bay Power |
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I agree with Fred and Vidar that you are very unlikely to have a problem operating your wash bay CONTROLLER on 230VAC, 60 Hz. You might, however, want to communicate with the manufacturer about possible speed problems with any motors in the wash bay.
It is true that, in general, 50 Hz motors operate fine on 60 Hz, and can even produce more than rated power, but you have to look at the effect of speed on the item being driven by the motor. Induction motors on fans, conveyor chains (pulling cars through the washer, if I understand correctly what you mean by a "wash bay"), and rotating brushes/rag flingers may overspeed unless electronically speed controlled, leading to some pretty high energy action inside the wash bay with possible damage to equipment and cars. You didn't mention the mechanical part of the wash bay, but I would be in close communication with the manufacturer to be sure that any induction motor driven equipment will be ok. Adjustable speed equipment can probably just be set to the appropriate speed if they have large enough speed ranges.
The power of a fan, for example, increases with the cube of speed, while capacity varies with the first power of speed. Therefore, on 60 Hz, a 50 Hz fan will deliver 20% more air, but consume 73% more power. So an induction motor powered fan could fail pretty quickly due to overloading. (It would also be REALLY noisy, and noise is usually an issue with wash bays in urban areas.) The fan would have to be designed for the required airflow at the actual motor speed.
Brushes and rag flingers (what DO they call those things?) could beat up on a car pretty badly at 20% over design speed, also.
Looking on the positive side, you could drag 20 % more cars through the wash bay. (Just joking.)
The Telemechanique website doesn't list the ABL7 RM1202 specifically, but does describe the ABL7 series power supplies as rated for 100 to 240 volts with no frequency specified. The description makes it look like a wide input voltage range SMPS that probably rectifies the raw input voltage for subsequent processing. That is not a frequency sensitive operation and should not have any difficulty with 60 Hz power of the correct voltage. I'd ask Telemechanique, however, considering Fred's comments about voltage sensing relays.
Good luck.
awright |
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