| Author |
Message |
Jerry G.
Guest
|
 Posted:
Fri Feb 04, 2005 6:13 pm Post subject:
Re: What purpose does standby serve? |
|
|
Standby mode, is to keep the computer sectons in the appliances active,
so that it can economicaly keep the setups. It also allows for the unit
to be able to keep track of the time of day, and economicaly maintain
the user parameters.
In the standby mode, some devices use a separate standby supply, or
have the main supply go to a low power output mode. Some appliances
pull less than 1/2 a Watt in the standby mode. Some larger appliances
are as high as 2 to 3 Watts in the standby mode.
In the appliances that share the operation of the main power supply for
both the standby and operation mode, tend to have their power supply
last longer. This is because the supply is still internaly active, but
there is very little load on it.
It is also a known fact, that devices that are left running all the
time, tend to have the components last longer. The sudden inrush of
current, and the temperature variations are what reduces the lifespan
of many electrical devices. For CRT type devices, the life span of the
CRT is reduced if the CRT is left running with beam current.
CRT's have a restricted life span, which is mainly determined from the
beam current. On a TV set, if you want to leave it left on, you can
turn down the brightness and contrast to minimum, and this would make
it have a reduced cathold current. The reduced cathold current would
increase the tube's lifespan. Since there is alway some cathold current
when there is high voltage, this will only be an extension on its
lifespan. The heater's rarely burn out in CRT's.
If you use a device every day, or even a few times a week, leaving it
in standby would allow for the unit to start up easier, and without the
user re-entering in all his paramters.
Using a chargeable battery to maintain the user parameters, would then
have the need for the power to be maintained at times to keep the
battery charged. Then after a time, these batteries would have to be
replaced, and thus end up as an added physical polution to the
environment.
In the standby mode, most of these appliances pull the same, or less
current than a wall clock. Infact, a VCR or TV set in standby generaly
will not pull enough current to get the power consumption meter from
the power company to even take a reading of the consumption.
If you want to, get an AC bar to feed your devices. You will have to
re-set it up every time you want to use it.
Greg wrote:
| Quote: | Hello,
I have become embroiled in a discussion with government
representatives from many agencies about whether or not items such as
TVs, VCRs, DVDs etc should be turned off to conserve electricity as
opposed to leaving them turned on in standby mode.
Can someone PLEASE tell me why standby mode is used?
Why should such appliances be left in standby mode instead of turned
off?
If the appliance is turned off instead of being put into standby
mode,
will the appliance's life be shortened, by how much and why?
I have seen sums on the energy savings if appliances are turned off
instead of being placed in standby, but I suspect that there is more
than this than meets the eye.
Many, many thanks,
Greg
Brisbane
Australia |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Jerry G.
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Feb 04, 2005 6:15 pm Post subject:
Re: What purpose does standby serve? |
|
|
Standby mode, is to keep the computer sectons in the appliances active,
so that it can economicaly keep the setups. It also allows for the unit
to be able to keep track of the time of day, and economicaly maintain
the user parameters.
In the standby mode, some devices use a separate standby supply, or
have the main supply go to a low power output mode. Some appliances
pull less than 1/2 a Watt in the standby mode. Some larger appliances
are as high as 2 to 3 Watts in the standby mode.
In the appliances that share the operation of the main power supply for
both the standby and operation mode, tend to have their power supply
last longer. This is because the supply is still internaly active, but
there is very little load on it.
It is also a known fact, that devices that are left running all the
time, tend to have the components last longer. The sudden inrush of
current, and the temperature variations are what reduces the lifespan
of many electrical devices. For CRT type devices, the life span of the
CRT is reduced if the CRT is left running with beam current.
CRT's have a restricted life span, which is mainly determined from the
beam current. On a TV set, if you want to leave it left on, you can
turn down the brightness and contrast to minimum, and this would make
it have a reduced cathold current. The reduced cathold current would
increase the tube's lifespan. Since there is alway some cathold current
when there is high voltage, this will only be an extension on its
lifespan. The heater's rarely burn out in CRT's.
If you use a device every day, or even a few times a week, leaving it
in standby would allow for the unit to start up easier, and without the
user re-entering in all his paramters.
Using a chargeable battery to maintain the user parameters, would then
have the need for the power to be maintained at times to keep the
battery charged. Then after a time, these batteries would have to be
replaced, and thus end up as an added physical polution to the
environment.
In the standby mode, most of these appliances pull the same, or less
current than a wall clock. Infact, a VCR or TV set in standby generaly
will not pull enough current to get the power consumption meter from
the power company to even take a reading of the consumption.
If you want to, get an AC bar to feed your devices. You will have to
re-set it up every time you want to use it.
Greg wrote:
| Quote: | Hello,
I have become embroiled in a discussion with government
representatives from many agencies about whether or not items such as
TVs, VCRs, DVDs etc should be turned off to conserve electricity as
opposed to leaving them turned on in standby mode.
Can someone PLEASE tell me why standby mode is used?
Why should such appliances be left in standby mode instead of turned
off?
If the appliance is turned off instead of being put into standby
mode,
will the appliance's life be shortened, by how much and why?
I have seen sums on the energy savings if appliances are turned off
instead of being placed in standby, but I suspect that there is more
than this than meets the eye.
Many, many thanks,
Greg
Brisbane
Australia |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
w_tom
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Feb 04, 2005 6:24 pm Post subject:
Re: What purpose does standby serve? |
|
|
William provided good answers. As for life expectancy, a
cold power up or from standby means the same components do a
complete 100% power up. There is no stress reduction on power
up from standby. AND that stress from powerup becomes (for
all practical purposes) mythical once we apply more numbers.
Standby tends to draw about 7 watts constantly waiting for
you to make a decision. 7 watts is the difference between
standby and a cold powerdown - see manufacturer datasheet for
a more accurate number. If the discussion with that
government representative did not provide that number, then
you were both wasting time. Without numbers, then the
discussion could only resort to wild speculation.
Greg wrote:
| Quote: | Hello,
I have become embroiled in a discussion with government
representatives from many agencies about whether or not items such as
TVs, VCRs, DVDs etc should be turned off to conserve electricity as
opposed to leaving them turned on in standby mode.
Can someone PLEASE tell me why standby mode is used?
Why should such appliances be left in standby mode instead of turned
off?
If the appliance is turned off instead of being put into standby mode,
will the appliance's life be shortened, by how much and why?
I have seen sums on the energy savings if appliances are turned off
instead of being placed in standby, but I suspect that there is more
than this than meets the eye. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
w_tom
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Feb 04, 2005 6:34 pm Post subject:
Re: What purpose does standby serve? |
|
|
In a system that consumes tens or hundreds of watts, then
1/2 watt for standby mode is the exact same thing as zero
power to those components. Standby does not extend equipment
life expectancy. Components suffer a 100% power increase
whether from standby mode or from cold restart.
It is nonsense to think that trivial current of standby mode
will save a component. Moreso, please tell us what the
current is through which parts so that parts last longer.
What are the numbers? And good luck trying.
As for time - computer maintains time of day in a circuit
completely unrelated to standby power. That design dates back
to the first IBM AT that had no standby option. Again, first
learn circuits before posting how they work.
Powering up from standby mode is no 'easier' on hardware
than powering from cold restart. The power up is different,
but just as 'stressful'. Stressful in quotes because the
stress from power up is mostly mythical - often promoted by
those who did not first learn how components work.
"Jerry G." wrote:
| Quote: | Standby mode, is to keep the computer sectons in the appliances active,
so that it can economicaly keep the setups. It also allows for the unit
to be able to keep track of the time of day, and economicaly maintain
the user parameters.
In the standby mode, some devices use a separate standby supply, or
have the main supply go to a low power output mode. Some appliances
pull less than 1/2 a Watt in the standby mode. Some larger appliances
are as high as 2 to 3 Watts in the standby mode.
In the appliances that share the operation of the main power supply for
both the standby and operation mode, tend to have their power supply
last longer. This is because the supply is still internaly active, but
there is very little load on it.
It is also a known fact, that devices that are left running all the
time, tend to have the components last longer. The sudden inrush of
current, and the temperature variations are what reduces the lifespan
of many electrical devices. For CRT type devices, the life span of the
CRT is reduced if the CRT is left running with beam current.
CRT's have a restricted life span, which is mainly determined from the
beam current. On a TV set, if you want to leave it left on, you can
turn down the brightness and contrast to minimum, and this would make
it have a reduced cathold current. The reduced cathold current would
increase the tube's lifespan. Since there is alway some cathold current
when there is high voltage, this will only be an extension on its
lifespan. The heater's rarely burn out in CRT's.
If you use a device every day, or even a few times a week, leaving it
in standby would allow for the unit to start up easier, and without the
user re-entering in all his paramters.
Using a chargeable battery to maintain the user parameters, would then
have the need for the power to be maintained at times to keep the
battery charged. Then after a time, these batteries would have to be
replaced, and thus end up as an added physical polution to the
environment.
In the standby mode, most of these appliances pull the same, or less
current than a wall clock. Infact, a VCR or TV set in standby generaly
will not pull enough current to get the power consumption meter from
the power company to even take a reading of the consumption.
If you want to, get an AC bar to feed your devices. You will have to
re-set it up every time you want to use it. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gary J. Tait
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Feb 05, 2005 1:57 am Post subject:
Re: What purpose does standby serve? |
|
|
On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 05:55:55 GMT, "James Sweet"
<jamessweet@hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
"NSM" <nowrite@to.me> wrote in message news:EPDMd.301$rB6.91@edtnps91...
"Sam Goldwasser" <sam@saul.cis.upenn.edu> wrote in message
news:6wy8e5uijj.fsf@saul.cis.upenn.edu...
Hmmmm. Cost of electricity to run heaters: Totally rough guess of 100 W
over
10 years or about 8,000 kW-h. What did electricity cost back then?
About 3 cents per KWh.
How did the cost of the electricity to keep the heaters lit continuously
compare to the cost of a service call to replace a tube? :)
I'd have been doing the replacing and the kine ran till the set died. They
didn't all do that, for sure, I replaced my share for other people. That's
how the old tube computers kept going too, keep the filaments alive.
Doesn't keeping the filaments heated boil off emissive material from the
cathode? I haven't had a ton of vacuum tube equipment but of 2 dozen or so
bad tubes I've replaced, only *one* of them had an open filament.
|
Most tube sets I came across had their standby reduce the current
going through the filaments. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gary J. Tait
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Feb 05, 2005 2:09 am Post subject:
Re: What purpose does standby serve? |
|
|
On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 07:34:50 -0500, w_tom <w_tom1@hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | As for time - computer maintains time of day in a circuit
completely unrelated to standby power. That design dates back
to the first IBM AT that had no standby option. Again, first
learn circuits before posting how they work.
|
But they did run on battery, which would need replaced (yes so do
modern PCs, but the battery is so supplement the standby supply,
should mains power fail, plus power more efficient memory technology
than the ATs had).
Plus they couldn't put themselves into standby mode like modern ATX
systems. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Gary J. Tait
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Feb 05, 2005 2:20 am Post subject:
Re: What purpose does standby serve? |
|
|
On 3 Feb 2005 17:00:34 -0800, xvreddog@yahoo.com (Greg) wrote:
| Quote: | Hello,
I have become embroiled in a discussion with government
representatives from many agencies about whether or not items such as
TVs, VCRs, DVDs etc should be turned off to conserve electricity as
opposed to leaving them turned on in standby mode.
Can someone PLEASE tell me why standby mode is used?
Why should such appliances be left in standby mode instead of turned
off?
If the appliance is turned off instead of being put into standby mode,
will the appliance's life be shortened, by how much and why?
I have seen sums on the energy savings if appliances are turned off
instead of being placed in standby, but I suspect that there is more
than this than meets the eye.
Many, many thanks,
Greg
Brisbane
Australia
|
It depends on what they are.
Sometimes, such as with satellite receivers, standby just turns off
outputs and the display, as it often has to keep the LNB powered, and
receive guide and authorisation updates (and system firmware updates,
which often need the receiver in standby to take). If you were to
often remove power from a satellite receiver, it would lose the guide
data (as that is kept in DRAM), and would miss authorisation updates,
meaning you'd lose programming.
Some DVD players "standby" is no different. (and have hard mains
switches, which I use if they are not used for extended lengths of
time).
Microwave ovens could be made to go "dark" and opening the door
activating the PS for the micro (I had one that did that, and it
wouldn't take a heck of a lot to re-work a modern oven to do the
same).
VCRS I think turn off the motors and the tuner/analog processing.
Otherwise most of the standby systems in electronics are for user
convenience. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
James Sweet
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Feb 05, 2005 9:22 am Post subject:
Re: What purpose does standby serve? |
|
|
"w_tom" <w_tom1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:42036BEA.49400C7E@hotmail.com...
| Quote: | In a system that consumes tens or hundreds of watts, then
1/2 watt for standby mode is the exact same thing as zero
power to those components. Standby does not extend equipment
life expectancy. Components suffer a 100% power increase
whether from standby mode or from cold restart.
It is nonsense to think that trivial current of standby mode
will save a component. Moreso, please tell us what the
current is through which parts so that parts last longer.
What are the numbers? And good luck trying.
As for time - computer maintains time of day in a circuit
completely unrelated to standby power. That design dates back
to the first IBM AT that had no standby option. Again, first
learn circuits before posting how they work.
Powering up from standby mode is no 'easier' on hardware
than powering from cold restart. The power up is different,
but just as 'stressful'. Stressful in quotes because the
stress from power up is mostly mythical - often promoted by
those who did not first learn how components work.
|
It's no easier on components but it does allow software control of power,
that's the whole reason for standby, to allow remote controls and software
to control powering up and shutting down the device in question. Some items
(Xbox for example) *do* use standby to maintain the system clock over long
periods, as do VCR's and some other appliances but the main purpose remains
software or logic control of device power. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Greg
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Feb 08, 2005 8:41 am Post subject:
Re: What purpose does standby serve? |
|
|
All,
Thank you all very much for your comments on this issue. There are
government employees all over the world pondering this issue and the
combined resources of people like you really does help little fish
like me.
This project that I am involved with will accelerate as the
relationship between energy user and electricity supplier will
continue to challenge customer perceptions of appliance ability in
response to denials of damage libility from energy suppliers.
Legislation just gets in the way, sometimes.
Anyway, any more comments on this subject are cretainly welcome.
Cheers,
Greg |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Feb 08, 2005 5:29 pm Post subject:
Re: What purpose does standby serve? |
|
|
This is a very long shot I know, but there may be something else to be
said for leaving appliances in standby other than mere convenience.
With regard to TVs (especially cheaper ones but I have seen this in a
few ITT and Grundigs too!) where the mains switch is soldered directly
to the mainboard, constant use of this switch, and the resulting
movement, sometimes makes it work itself loose or the soldering to
crack, and the set to become intermittent, leading to other problems.
I have seen this many times on sets whose owners insist on powering
down with the hard on-off instead of standby.
Still, I doubt this is a major issue in the general scheme of
things.....
regards, Ben |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jack Zeal
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:01 am Post subject:
Re: What purpose does standby serve? |
|
|
reverend_rogers@yahoo.com wrote:
| Quote: | This is a very long shot I know, but there may be something else to be
said for leaving appliances in standby other than mere convenience.
With regard to TVs (especially cheaper ones but I have seen this in a
few ITT and Grundigs too!) where the mains switch is soldered directly
to the mainboard, constant use of this switch, and the resulting
movement, sometimes makes it work itself loose or the soldering to
crack, and the set to become intermittent, leading to other problems.
I have seen this many times on sets whose owners insist on powering
down with the hard on-off instead of standby.
Still, I doubt this is a major issue in the general scheme of
things.....
regards, Ben
One more possibility. I know the standards for some devices to get a |
energy-efficient seal from some governments are iffy at best. I think
on a lot of comp parts (monitors, printers, machines), having a standby
mode which makes it eat less than xxx watts is ample, even if it's not
very efficient when it's really on. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Greg
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Feb 14, 2005 4:19 am Post subject:
Re: What purpose does standby serve? |
|
|
Hello,
Therefore, it appears to me that when a person alleges that their
VCR's or TV's power supply got "burnt out" due to a voltage surge, it
would have made no difference if the appliance was already in standby
mode?
In other words, if an appliance is in standby mode and there is an
under or overcurrent, the appliance's power supply will stand a chance
of a "burn out"?
(I sure wish I was an electrical engineer!)
Greg |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sam Goldwasser
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Feb 14, 2005 5:50 am Post subject:
Re: What purpose does standby serve? |
|
|
xvreddog@yahoo.com (Greg) writes:
| Quote: | Hello,
Therefore, it appears to me that when a person alleges that their
VCR's or TV's power supply got "burnt out" due to a voltage surge, it
would have made no difference if the appliance was already in standby
mode?
In other words, if an appliance is in standby mode and there is an
under or overcurrent, the appliance's power supply will stand a chance
of a "burn out"?
(I sure wish I was an electrical engineer!)
Greg
|
Hard to say. Standby power supplies can be burnt out by a surge but
may be more tolerant than the high power circuits used during normal
operation.
--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ Mirror: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Sites: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/REPAIR/F_mirror.html
Note: These links are hopefully temporary until we can sort out the excessive
traffic on Repairfaq.org.
Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header above is
ignored unless my full name is included in the subject line. Or, you can
contact me via the Feedback Form in the FAQs. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
James Sweet
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Feb 14, 2005 6:11 am Post subject:
Re: What purpose does standby serve? |
|
|
"Sam Goldwasser" <sam@saul.cis.upenn.edu> wrote in message
news:6wis4wvx2d.fsf@saul.cis.upenn.edu...
| Quote: | xvreddog@yahoo.com (Greg) writes:
Hello,
Therefore, it appears to me that when a person alleges that their
VCR's or TV's power supply got "burnt out" due to a voltage surge, it
would have made no difference if the appliance was already in standby
mode?
In other words, if an appliance is in standby mode and there is an
under or overcurrent, the appliance's power supply will stand a chance
of a "burn out"?
(I sure wish I was an electrical engineer!)
Greg
Hard to say. Standby power supplies can be burnt out by a surge but
may be more tolerant than the high power circuits used during normal
operation.
|
And probably 90% of the time when people assume something was burned out by
a surge it actually had nothing to do with surges. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
Memberlist
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in