| Author |
Message |
Greg
Guest
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 Posted:
Fri Feb 04, 2005 7:00 am Post subject:
What purpose does standby serve? |
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Hello,
I have become embroiled in a discussion with government
representatives from many agencies about whether or not items such as
TVs, VCRs, DVDs etc should be turned off to conserve electricity as
opposed to leaving them turned on in standby mode.
Can someone PLEASE tell me why standby mode is used?
Why should such appliances be left in standby mode instead of turned
off?
If the appliance is turned off instead of being put into standby mode,
will the appliance's life be shortened, by how much and why?
I have seen sums on the energy savings if appliances are turned off
instead of being placed in standby, but I suspect that there is more
than this than meets the eye.
Many, many thanks,
Greg
Brisbane
Australia
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Harvey
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Feb 04, 2005 7:19 am Post subject:
Re: What purpose does standby serve? |
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"Greg" <xvreddog@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a13b52dc.0502031700.7e0952d5@posting.google.com...
| Quote: | Hello,
I have become embroiled in a discussion with government
representatives from many agencies about whether or not items such as
TVs, VCRs, DVDs etc should be turned off to conserve electricity as
opposed to leaving them turned on in standby mode.
Can someone PLEASE tell me why standby mode is used?
Why should such appliances be left in standby mode instead of turned
off?
|
Convenience. There's nothing more annoying as having to walk 3 feet over to
the TV to switch it on (only to have it power up to *standby* so having to
then go back and search for the remote anyway). So much easier to leave it
in standby...
| Quote: |
If the appliance is turned off instead of being put into standby mode,
will the appliance's life be shortened, by how much and why?
|
I doubt it makes much of any real difference. Some people say leaving items
in standby reduces the shock of the initial power on surge, others say the
heat produced in standby reduces the life by an equal or greater amount.
You'd be hard pressed to ever put any meaningful figures on it.
| Quote: | I have seen sums on the energy savings if appliances are turned off
instead of being placed in standby, but I suspect that there is more
than this than meets the eye.
|
You have to ask if all the items on standby make any significant difference
compared to.. say.. all the wasted energy used heating empty rooms in
factories, schools etc. - all of which goes to waste because most of those
buildings have no insulation whatsoever.
Things could certainly be done to reduce energy waste; but.. at the end of
the day.. nobody can be bothered much. We enjoy our lifestyles too much to
worry about things that won't directly affect us. Sad, but true.
.... |
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Sam Goldwasser
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Feb 04, 2005 7:44 am Post subject:
Re: What purpose does standby serve? |
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"Harvey" <harvey@not.ntlworld.com> writes:
| Quote: | "Greg" <xvreddog@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a13b52dc.0502031700.7e0952d5@posting.google.com...
Hello,
I have become embroiled in a discussion with government
representatives from many agencies about whether or not items such as
TVs, VCRs, DVDs etc should be turned off to conserve electricity as
opposed to leaving them turned on in standby mode.
Can someone PLEASE tell me why standby mode is used?
Why should such appliances be left in standby mode instead of turned
off?
Convenience. There's nothing more annoying as having to walk 3 feet over to
the TV to switch it on (only to have it power up to *standby* so having to
then go back and search for the remote anyway). So much easier to leave it
in standby...
If the appliance is turned off instead of being put into standby mode,
will the appliance's life be shortened, by how much and why?
I doubt it makes much of any real difference. Some people say leaving items
in standby reduces the shock of the initial power on surge, others say the
heat produced in standby reduces the life by an equal or greater amount.
You'd be hard pressed to ever put any meaningful figures on it.
I have seen sums on the energy savings if appliances are turned off
instead of being placed in standby, but I suspect that there is more
than this than meets the eye.
You have to ask if all the items on standby make any significant difference
compared to.. say.. all the wasted energy used heating empty rooms in
factories, schools etc. - all of which goes to waste because most of those
buildings have no insulation whatsoever.
Things could certainly be done to reduce energy waste; but.. at the end of
the day.. nobody can be bothered much. We enjoy our lifestyles too much to
worry about things that won't directly affect us. Sad, but true.
|
Well, maybe.
But consider: Replacing how many 100 W incandescent lamps used 6 hours
a day with 25 W equivalent brightness compact fluorescents will it take
to same more energy than used by all those appliances in the house with
standby modes?
10? 5? 2? 1? :)
--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ Mirror: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Sites: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/REPAIR/F_mirror.html
Note: These links are hopefully temporary until we can sort out the excessive
traffic on Repairfaq.org.
Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header above is
ignored unless my full name is included in the subject line. Or, you can
contact me via the Feedback Form in the FAQs.
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Harvey
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Feb 04, 2005 7:55 am Post subject:
Re: What purpose does standby serve? |
|
|
"Sam Goldwasser" <sam@saul.cis.upenn.edu> wrote in message
news:6w7jlpw13d.fsf@saul.cis.upenn.edu...
| Quote: | "Harvey" <harvey@not.ntlworld.com> writes:
[..]]
Well, maybe.
But consider: Replacing how many 100 W incandescent lamps used 6 hours
a day with 25 W equivalent brightness compact fluorescents will it take
to same more energy than used by all those appliances in the house with
standby modes?
10? 5? 2? 1? :)
|
Ah, but how much extra energy went into the _manufacturing_ of these 'energy
efficient lights compared to incandescent lamps? I've not seen any figures
and I wouldn't really like to guess, but its got to be more; probably by a
factor or two or three... |
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Do Litlle Jr.
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Feb 04, 2005 8:03 am Post subject:
Re: What purpose does standby serve? |
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"Harvey" <harvey@not.ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:9CAMd.2526$Ck4.1894@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net...
| Quote: |
"Sam Goldwasser" <sam@saul.cis.upenn.edu> wrote in message
news:6w7jlpw13d.fsf@saul.cis.upenn.edu...
"Harvey" <harvey@not.ntlworld.com> writes:
[..]]
Well, maybe.
But consider: Replacing how many 100 W incandescent lamps used 6 hours
a day with 25 W equivalent brightness compact fluorescents will it take
to same more energy than used by all those appliances in the house with
standby modes?
10? 5? 2? 1? :)
Ah, but how much extra energy went into the _manufacturing_ of these
'energy
efficient lights compared to incandescent lamps? I've not seen any figures
and I wouldn't really like to guess, but its got to be more; probably by a
factor or two or three...
|
.... and not to forget the extra costs in manufacturing
(and eventually servicing those) standby circuits... |
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NSM
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Feb 04, 2005 8:59 am Post subject:
Re: What purpose does standby serve? |
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"Sam Goldwasser" <sam@saul.cis.upenn.edu> wrote in message
news:6w7jlpw13d.fsf@saul.cis.upenn.edu...
| Quote: | Well, maybe.
But consider: Replacing how many 100 W incandescent lamps used 6 hours
a day with 25 W equivalent brightness compact fluorescents will it take
to same more energy than used by all those appliances in the house with
standby modes?
|
When my grandmother got her first color TV (all tube) I modified it so the
tube heaters stayed on all the time. Never took the back off until we
swapped it out for a new model many years later.
--
N |
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Sam Goldwasser
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Feb 04, 2005 9:05 am Post subject:
Re: What purpose does standby serve? |
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|
"Harvey" <harvey@not.ntlworld.com> writes:
| Quote: | "Sam Goldwasser" <sam@saul.cis.upenn.edu> wrote in message
news:6w7jlpw13d.fsf@saul.cis.upenn.edu...
"Harvey" <harvey@not.ntlworld.com> writes:
[..]]
Well, maybe.
But consider: Replacing how many 100 W incandescent lamps used 6 hours
a day with 25 W equivalent brightness compact fluorescents will it take
to same more energy than used by all those appliances in the house with
standby modes?
10? 5? 2? 1? :)
Ah, but how much extra energy went into the _manufacturing_ of these 'energy
efficient lights compared to incandescent lamps? I've not seen any figures
and I wouldn't really like to guess, but its got to be more; probably by a
factor or two or three...
|
Yes, but how does it compare with the electrical energy cost over the life of the
lamp (100 kW-h for a 100 W 1000 hour incandescent lamp)? :)
--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ Mirror: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Sites: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/REPAIR/F_mirror.html
Note: These links are hopefully temporary until we can sort out the excessive
traffic on Repairfaq.org.
Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header above is
ignored unless my full name is included in the subject line. Or, you can
contact me via the Feedback Form in the FAQs. |
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Sam Goldwasser
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Feb 04, 2005 9:10 am Post subject:
Re: What purpose does standby serve? |
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"NSM" <nowrite@to.me> writes:
| Quote: | "Sam Goldwasser" <sam@saul.cis.upenn.edu> wrote in message
news:6w7jlpw13d.fsf@saul.cis.upenn.edu...
Well, maybe.
But consider: Replacing how many 100 W incandescent lamps used 6 hours
a day with 25 W equivalent brightness compact fluorescents will it take
to same more energy than used by all those appliances in the house with
standby modes?
When my grandmother got her first color TV (all tube) I modified it so the
tube heaters stayed on all the time. Never took the back off until we
swapped it out for a new model many years later.
|
Hmmmm. Cost of electricity to run heaters: Totally rough guess of 100 W over
10 years or about 8,000 kW-h. What did electricity cost back then?
How did the cost of the electricity to keep the heaters lit continuously
compare to the cost of a service call to replace a tube? :)
--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ Mirror: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Sites: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/REPAIR/F_mirror.html
Note: These links are hopefully temporary until we can sort out the excessive
traffic on Repairfaq.org.
Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header above is
ignored unless my full name is included in the subject line. Or, you can
contact me via the Feedback Form in the FAQs. |
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Ken Weitzel
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Feb 04, 2005 9:17 am Post subject:
Re: What purpose does standby serve? |
|
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NSM wrote:
| Quote: | "Sam Goldwasser" <sam@saul.cis.upenn.edu> wrote in message
news:6w7jlpw13d.fsf@saul.cis.upenn.edu...
Well, maybe.
But consider: Replacing how many 100 W incandescent lamps used 6 hours
a day with 25 W equivalent brightness compact fluorescents will it take
to same more energy than used by all those appliances in the house with
standby modes?
When my grandmother got her first color TV (all tube) I modified it so the
tube heaters stayed on all the time. Never took the back off until we
swapped it out for a new model many years later.
|
Hi...
Do both! Let's save a little of the world's resources
for the next generations. Or at least as much as possible.
As for those tube filaments, back in those good old days
there were no concerns about non-renewable resources, hydro
was virtually free, and we concerned ourselves not a whit
about the environment.
Still, one of the first sets I bought (Rca, I think) left
the filaments on half voltage while the set was turned off.
They called it "instant on". Yet there was a holiday
switch on the back that shut it down completely.
Take care.
Ken |
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James Sweet
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Feb 04, 2005 10:00 am Post subject:
Re: What purpose does standby serve? |
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|
"Sam Goldwasser" <sam@saul.cis.upenn.edu> wrote in message
news:6w3bwdvxbg.fsf@saul.cis.upenn.edu...
| Quote: | "Harvey" <harvey@not.ntlworld.com> writes:
"Sam Goldwasser" <sam@saul.cis.upenn.edu> wrote in message
news:6w7jlpw13d.fsf@saul.cis.upenn.edu...
"Harvey" <harvey@not.ntlworld.com> writes:
[..]]
Well, maybe.
But consider: Replacing how many 100 W incandescent lamps used 6 hours
a day with 25 W equivalent brightness compact fluorescents will it
take
to same more energy than used by all those appliances in the house
with
standby modes?
10? 5? 2? 1? :)
Ah, but how much extra energy went into the _manufacturing_ of these
'energy
efficient lights compared to incandescent lamps? I've not seen any
figures
and I wouldn't really like to guess, but its got to be more; probably by
a
factor or two or three...
Yes, but how does it compare with the electrical energy cost over the life
of the
lamp (100 kW-h for a 100 W 1000 hour incandescent lamp)? :)
|
Really depends, if you buy the garbage LOA CFL's and they die after 3 weeks
then it's not a very good investment. My entire house has been CFL for
several years now aside from the diningroom chandelier and since I did the
swap my electric bill dropped noticeably. For lights like porchlights and
others that are on for extended periods of time it's silly to use an archaic
incandescent lamp. |
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William R. Walsh
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Feb 04, 2005 11:31 am Post subject:
Re: What purpose does standby serve? |
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Hi!
| Quote: | Can someone PLEASE tell me why standby mode is used?
|
There are a few reasons.
1. It allows for easy addition of a remote control circuit. By leaving the
microcontroller and a sensor active, a remote is easily added to a design.
2. It removes the need for a separate memory device and a means to power
it...at least until the power goes out!
3. Some designs use it for a quicker start-up time.
4. A device can be turned on from standby using a special "power up" command
or timer event. WebTV boxes do this.
| Quote: | Why should such appliances be left in standby mode instead of turned
off?
|
For the ones with volatile memories backed by the power line and a portion
of the power supply, the answer is obvious...remove power entirely and the
memory goes away. For others with remote controls the answer is also
obvious...something has to be on and "watching" for remote power-on signals.
For some devices there is no good reason and unplugging them won't harm a
thing.
I don't know if turn-on cycles without the "aid" of a standby supply are
more stressful to the other electronics in a device or not. Given that most
everything is turned off and started "cold" by the few parts that do remain
on, I would have my doubts that standby modes could increase the life of a
device.
Devices with "hard" on-off switches are usually a little bit better
protected than those which are always "on" or in standby. This does depend
on the location of the switch though.
| Quote: | If the appliance is turned off instead of being put into standby mode,
will the appliance's life be shortened, by how much and why?
|
I doubt that it would be. There are a lot of factors here. First, some
devices will fail in standby because the wear on a small part of the device
is constant. This can lead to dried up capacitors or other failed
components.
Starting any device is a stressful time on all the components involved.
Things are starting up and stabilizing. Usually this doesn't affect the
device's life significantly as you've got to turn on it on sometime!
William |
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NSM
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Feb 04, 2005 11:34 am Post subject:
Re: What purpose does standby serve? |
|
|
"Sam Goldwasser" <sam@saul.cis.upenn.edu> wrote in message
news:6wy8e5uijj.fsf@saul.cis.upenn.edu...
| Quote: | Hmmmm. Cost of electricity to run heaters: Totally rough guess of 100 W
over
10 years or about 8,000 kW-h. What did electricity cost back then?
|
About 3 cents per KWh.
| Quote: | How did the cost of the electricity to keep the heaters lit continuously
compare to the cost of a service call to replace a tube? :)
|
I'd have been doing the replacing and the kine ran till the set died. They
didn't all do that, for sure, I replaced my share for other people. That's
how the old tube computers kept going too, keep the filaments alive.
--
N |
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NSM
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Feb 04, 2005 11:34 am Post subject:
Re: What purpose does standby serve? |
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|
"Ken Weitzel" <kweitzel@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:qPBMd.264150$8l.114388@pd7tw1no...
| Quote: | Hi...
Do both! Let's save a little of the world's resources
for the next generations. Or at least as much as possible.
As for those tube filaments, back in those good old days
there were no concerns about non-renewable resources, hydro
was virtually free, and we concerned ourselves not a whit
about the environment.
|
Wouldn't bother now, but we were 100% hydro back then. Might have saved the
earth by cutting down on waste material for the sake of a few gallons of
rain water.
--
N |
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James Sweet
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Feb 04, 2005 11:55 am Post subject:
Re: What purpose does standby serve? |
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"NSM" <nowrite@to.me> wrote in message news:EPDMd.301$rB6.91@edtnps91...
| Quote: |
"Sam Goldwasser" <sam@saul.cis.upenn.edu> wrote in message
news:6wy8e5uijj.fsf@saul.cis.upenn.edu...
Hmmmm. Cost of electricity to run heaters: Totally rough guess of 100 W
over
10 years or about 8,000 kW-h. What did electricity cost back then?
About 3 cents per KWh.
How did the cost of the electricity to keep the heaters lit continuously
compare to the cost of a service call to replace a tube? :)
I'd have been doing the replacing and the kine ran till the set died. They
didn't all do that, for sure, I replaced my share for other people. That's
how the old tube computers kept going too, keep the filaments alive.
|
Doesn't keeping the filaments heated boil off emissive material from the
cathode? I haven't had a ton of vacuum tube equipment but of 2 dozen or so
bad tubes I've replaced, only *one* of them had an open filament. |
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Ken Weitzel
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Feb 04, 2005 12:38 pm Post subject:
Re: What purpose does standby serve? |
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NSM wrote:
| Quote: | "Ken Weitzel" <kweitzel@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:qPBMd.264150$8l.114388@pd7tw1no...
Hi...
Do both! Let's save a little of the world's resources
for the next generations. Or at least as much as possible.
As for those tube filaments, back in those good old days
there were no concerns about non-renewable resources, hydro
was virtually free, and we concerned ourselves not a whit
about the environment.
Wouldn't bother now, but we were 100% hydro back then. Might have saved the
earth by cutting down on waste material for the sake of a few gallons of
rain water.
|
Hi NSM...
Ahh, if you're definition of hydro is electricity then you're
surely right.
But if hydro means "falling water generated" then I beg to
disagree. Vast quantities of electricity was generated by
burning coal. And that meant burning fuel for earth digging
machines to uncover it. Burning fuel for gas powered conveyor
belts to move it. More fuel for trucks to take it to the
rail lines. Then coal burning smoking smelly dirty locomotives
to move it around the country. Then more trucks, and on and on
and on. Bad news.
Now if each of those filaments was - say 5 watts? - and a
dozen tubes minimum per set - then 60 watts per set 24/7.
Imagine if we did that today :)
Take care.
Ken |
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