Early CAD Panning and Zooming?
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Early CAD Panning and Zooming?
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Greg
Guest
Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 6:51 am    Post subject: Early CAD Panning and Zooming? Reply with quote
Does anyone know which CAD programs were the first to offer panning and
zooming? This may even be entering in different coordinates for a
different view. It does not have to be "smooth panning."

I found a great article on it here:
http://cgw.pennnet.com/Articles/Article_Display.cfm?Section=Articles&Subsection=Display&ARTICLE_ID=134265

I am wondering if Romulus in December 1983 was the first place you
could do that.

Thank you,

Greg

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Joerg
Guest
Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 7:42 am    Post subject: Re: Early CAD Panning and Zooming? Reply with quote
Hi Greg,

Not sure if you include electronic CAD here but my old Orcad from the
mid 80's could do that. The first CAD system I ever used was Futurenet
Dash, I believe early 80's, and as far as I can remember it zoomed and
panned as well. Otherwise we couldn't likely have designed large boards
on IBM-XT standard CGA screens.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com
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Greg
Guest
Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 7:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Early CAD Panning and Zooming? Reply with quote
Joerg,

I would certainly be interested in electronic CAD as well as
mechanical/architectural. I have been reading about early CAD programs
generally recently and I am fascinated by the early work.

Do you have a link to something that might list the different versions
of Futurenet Dash or perhaps even the capabilities of each version?
Thank you,

Greg

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Dave VanHorn
Guest
Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 12:48 am    Post subject: Re: Early CAD Panning and Zooming? Reply with quote
The DOS orcad that I used, even the first version I had in '86 or
thereabouts, did panning very nicely. Unfortunately the current windows
version dosen't, as they've "improved" it.
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Jim Thompson
Guest
Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 12:58 am    Post subject: Re: Early CAD Panning and Zooming? Reply with quote
On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 13:48:56 -0500, "Dave VanHorn"
<dvanhorn@dvanhorn.org> wrote:

Quote:
The DOS orcad that I used, even the first version I had in '86 or
thereabouts, did panning very nicely. Unfortunately the current windows
version dosen't, as they've "improved" it.


Yep. I was an OrCAD fan until they went with their own Windows "ESP"
crap.

Now. If OrCAD ever drops the ability to use PSpice Schematics as a
front-end and tries to force Capture down my throat I'll be history
and their most reputable bad-mouther ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
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Joerg
Guest
Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 4:12 am    Post subject: Re: Early CAD Panning and Zooming? Reply with quote
Hello Greg,

Quote:
Do you have a link to something that might list the different versions
of Futurenet Dash or perhaps even the capabilities of each version?



Unfortunately no and a Google entry came up rather dry for the older
Dash versions. As far as I can remember it was sold to us by Data-IO. If
you are doing a serious history search they might be able to dig
something up.

It was great software. It never crashed on me, not once. Well, neither
did DOS. OrCAD SDT, also a pretty old editor, was rock solid as well.
With anything after that I had crashes galore.

After a few days of 'boiler room style' schematic entry on Dash the
displays became hazy. Then we had to get some stuff from the janitor's
room and clean the nicotine/tar layer off the monitors because these
were the days when some of the engineers chain smoked when having to
concentrate. I never figured out how they managed to smoke and edit at
the same time...

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com
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Joerg
Guest
Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 4:19 am    Post subject: Re: Early CAD Panning and Zooming? Reply with quote
Hi Jim,

Quote:
Now. If OrCAD ever drops the ability to use PSpice Schematics as a
front-end and tries to force Capture down my throat I'll be history
and their most reputable bad-mouther ;-)



So what is your normal tool sequence from PSpice Schematics through
sending it all off to the chip layouter?

I recently went Cadsoft/Eagle for schematics. It's really nice for
RF/analog and has a powerful user language and scripting in case I have
to do 'crazy stuff'. Cost is reasonable, too.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com
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qrk
Guest
Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 8:51 am    Post subject: Re: Early CAD Panning and Zooming? Reply with quote
ESP is not needed. It was only a "convienient" front-end for the
regular tools. I've always deleted the ESP crap.

Mark
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John Strupat
Guest
Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 9:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Early CAD Panning and Zooming? Omation SCHEMA III Reply with quote
I can say that Omation's SCHEMA III was incredibly fast for panning and
zooming in the early 1980's, even on a 286 running DOS.
Since screen resolution was shabby back then, it was vital to be able to pan
across larger sheets.
Nothing else in my expereince could match it until much more computer power
became available.

On the other hand, creating new components was always an interesting
experience!

Seems to me that Accel or Tango bought Omation and took this package off the
market.
I remember speaking to the sole remaining Omation support person a few times
before the package faded away.

B.T.W. I offer a service to convert Omation schematic files into other CAD
formats, PDF's or hardcopy outputs.


John Strupat

JST Limited
77 Elmwood Avenue East
London, ON
CANADA N6C 1J4

Tel. 519-857-8504
FAX 519-857-8624

www.JSTtech.com




for schematic capture on
"Greg" <lextalionis@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1106700713.050175.181150@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
Does anyone know which CAD programs were the first to offer panning and
zooming? This may even be entering in different coordinates for a
different view. It does not have to be "smooth panning."

I found a great article on it here:

http://cgw.pennnet.com/Articles/Article_Display.cfm?Section=Articles&Subsect

ion=Display&ARTICLE_ID=134265
Quote:

I am wondering if Romulus in December 1983 was the first place you
could do that.

Thank you,

Greg
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Dave VanHorn
Guest
Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 6:10 am    Post subject: Re: Early CAD Panning and Zooming? Omation SCHEMA III Reply with quote
I did autorouting on a board once, while driving from LA to Vancouver BC, on
a Toshiba 1000 laptop.. Took same computer out in a rowboat, and routed
another board while floating exactly on the international border, about a
mile off point roberts Wa.

Autorouting on a slow 286... :)
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john jardine
Guest
Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 6:37 am    Post subject: Re: Early CAD Panning and Zooming? Reply with quote
"Joerg" <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote in message
news:5IUJd.15369$wZ2.1256@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
Quote:
Hi Jim,

Now. If OrCAD ever drops the ability to use PSpice Schematics as a
front-end and tries to force Capture down my throat I'll be history
and their most reputable bad-mouther ;-)



So what is your normal tool sequence from PSpice Schematics through
sending it all off to the chip layouter?

I recently went Cadsoft/Eagle for schematics. It's really nice for
RF/analog and has a powerful user language and scripting in case I have
to do 'crazy stuff'. Cost is reasonable, too.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

Joerg ... One of the big big annoyances I had with Eagle was that the
component-power-pins were not accessible. The proggers seemed to assume that
all designers were locked in a 1970's timewarp and designed wholly using 5V
rails. This meant ugly dismantling (invoking?) of every component. I packed
it in because of this and their libraries abortion.
You've given Eagle a thumbs up. I've respect for your opinion. does this
mean this kind of thing is no longer a problem?.
regards
john
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Jim Thompson
Guest
Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 6:42 am    Post subject: Re: Early CAD Panning and Zooming? Reply with quote
On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 22:19:45 GMT, Joerg
<notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

Quote:
Hi Jim,

Now. If OrCAD ever drops the ability to use PSpice Schematics as a
front-end and tries to force Capture down my throat I'll be history
and their most reputable bad-mouther ;-)



So what is your normal tool sequence from PSpice Schematics through
sending it all off to the chip layouter?

"Layouter" uses my schematics to do the layout, and I generate an LVS
netlist (connect-up, but no strays) that the "Layouter" imports to
compare to the netlist from the layout tool.

I often use the "Layouter's" extracted netlist to re-run a simulation
verification.

Quote:

I recently went Cadsoft/Eagle for schematics. It's really nice for
RF/analog and has a powerful user language and scripting in case I have
to do 'crazy stuff'. Cost is reasonable, too.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com


...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
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matt
Guest
Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 7:50 am    Post subject: Re: Early CAD Panning and Zooming? Reply with quote
I used an ancient version of Racal-Redac in 1982 that was panning and
zooming . Ran on an equally ancient IBM XT .
best regards,
Matt Tudor

Greg wrote in message
<1106700713.050175.181150@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>...
Quote:
Does anyone know which CAD programs were the first to offer panning and
zooming? This may even be entering in different coordinates for a
different view. It does not have to be "smooth panning."

I found a great article on it here:
http://cgw.pennnet.com/Articles/Article_Display.cfm?Section=Articles&Subsec
tion=Display&ARTICLE_ID=134265

I am wondering if Romulus in December 1983 was the first place you
could do that.

Thank you,

Greg
Back to top
Chaos Master
Guest
Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 8:56 am    Post subject: Re: Early CAD Panning and Zooming? Reply with quote
In sci.electronics.cad, john jardine wrote:



Quote:
Joerg ... One of the big big annoyances I had with Eagle was that the
component-power-pins were not accessible. The proggers seemed to assume that
all designers were locked in a 1970's timewarp and designed wholly using 5V
rails. This meant ugly dismantling (invoking?) of every component. I packed
it in because of this and their libraries abortion.
You've given Eagle a thumbs up. I've respect for your opinion. does this
mean this kind of thing is no longer a problem?.
regards
john

EAGLE still has this problem... this is one thing I don't like on it.
Otherwise, EAGLE is rather good.

[]s
--
Chaos Master®, posting from Canoas, Brazil - 29.55° S / 51.11° W / GMT-
2h / 15m

"He [Babya] is like the Energizer Bunny of hopeless newsgroup
posting....or should that be Energizer bBunny"
- "ceed" on alt.comp.freeware, 24/1/2005

(to some groups: Yes, I use Windows and MS Office. So what?)
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Paul Burke
Guest
Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2005 2:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Early CAD Panning and Zooming? Reply with quote
john jardine wrote:

Quote:
Joerg ... One of the big big annoyances I had with Eagle was that the
component-power-pins were not accessible. The proggers seemed to assume that
all designers were locked in a 1970's timewarp and designed wholly using 5V
rails.

Presumably you could just lie, and put your 3.3V or whatever rails in
just as pins?

Paul Burke
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