| Author |
Message |
Jim Thompson
Guest
|
 Posted:
Fri Jan 21, 2005 2:19 am Post subject:
Re: OT: Red States to Secede |
|
|
On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 17:11:33 +0000, John Woodgate
<jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote:
| Quote: | I read in sci.electronics.design that John Larkin <jjSNIPlarkin@highTHIS
landPLEASEtechnology.XXX> wrote (in <rlnvu0lqmbtaoe6n0fftb3kh31mdhkv0de@
4ax.com>) about 'OT: Red States to Secede', on Thu, 20 Jan 2005:
Even simpler: if I pay taxes, and you don't, and we both receive
benefits, you are on welfare.
It sounds OK initially, but then what to make of these big corporations
that pay minute amounts in tax? How do they fit in?
|
They don't pay taxes. Only end consumers pay sales tax. So you only
get taxed if you spend any of your income, earned or unearned (as they
call dividends, etc.).
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Spehro Pefhany
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Jan 21, 2005 2:32 am Post subject:
Re: OT: Red States to Secede |
|
|
On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 13:19:14 -0700, the renowned Jim Thompson
<thegreatone@example.com> wrote:
| Quote: | On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 17:11:33 +0000, John Woodgate
jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote:
I read in sci.electronics.design that John Larkin <jjSNIPlarkin@highTHIS
landPLEASEtechnology.XXX> wrote (in <rlnvu0lqmbtaoe6n0fftb3kh31mdhkv0de@
4ax.com>) about 'OT: Red States to Secede', on Thu, 20 Jan 2005:
Even simpler: if I pay taxes, and you don't, and we both receive
benefits, you are on welfare.
It sounds OK initially, but then what to make of these big corporations
that pay minute amounts in tax? How do they fit in?
They don't pay taxes. Only end consumers pay sales tax. So you only
get taxed if you spend any of your income, earned or unearned (as they
call dividends, etc.).
...Jim Thompson
|
Getting rid of personal income tax (and disbanding the IRS) would be
the equivalent of winning WWII in terms of improving the quality of
lives. Maybe better.
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
gwhite
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Jan 21, 2005 2:42 am Post subject:
Re: OT: Red States to Secede |
|
|
jason wrote:
| Quote: |
The New Deal pulled tens of thousands of families out of
poverty -
|
Completely ridiculous. The New Deal is the Raw Deal.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0761501657/
Of course, Hoover gave FDR a nice running start with all his idiotic actions.
I don't know why the left hates Bush. Like FDR, he gave them war and more
socialist programs like the prescription drug benefit. He drove up the deficit,
just like FDR.
If Bush would just raise taxes and drive up unemployment we'd have another FDR
hero on our hands. I almost forgot that FDR cozied up to Stalin, but Bush
knocked down a dictator instead. So much justified hate for Bush. Given the
left's hero FDR, I can't understand the measure of hate for Bush when the two
are compared. LOL (Hey dumbasses: I didn't vote for Bush.)
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
John Larkin
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Jan 21, 2005 2:50 am Post subject:
Re: OT: Red States to Secede |
|
|
On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 13:39:25 -0500, Spehro Pefhany
<speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:
| Quote: | On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 10:27:07 -0800, the renowned Charles Edmondson
edmondson@ieee.org> wrote:
Spehro Pefhany wrote:
On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 17:11:33 +0000, the renowned John Woodgate
jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote:
I read in sci.electronics.design that John Larkin <jjSNIPlarkin@highTHIS
landPLEASEtechnology.XXX> wrote (in <rlnvu0lqmbtaoe6n0fftb3kh31mdhkv0de@
4ax.com>) about 'OT: Red States to Secede', on Thu, 20 Jan 2005:
Even simpler: if I pay taxes, and you don't, and we both receive
benefits, you are on welfare.
It sounds OK initially, but then what to make of these big corporations
that pay minute amounts in tax? How do they fit in?
Like the farm that pays some tax, but receives massive subsidies on
its products.
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
Because that corporation employs thousands of persons whoe EACH pay taxes...
and issues dividends to stockholders who EACH pay taxes...
They get their cut, eventually!
Charlie
That's the kind of logic that has governments subsidizing "dead man
walking" corporations just to keep the employment going. Even if they
just break even or perhaps lose a bit (there are other businesses in
the area affected etc. etc. ad nauseam. Bad economics.
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
|
Simple fix: neither subsidize nor tax corporations.
John |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
John Larkin
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Jan 21, 2005 2:54 am Post subject:
Re: OT: Red States to Secede |
|
|
On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 19:05:25 +0000, John Woodgate
<jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote:
| Quote: | I read in sci.electronics.design that Charles Edmondson
edmondson@ieee.org> wrote (in <41eff7fb$1@news.cadence.com>) about 'OT:
Red States to Secede', on Thu, 20 Jan 2005:
Because that corporation employs thousands of persons whoe EACH pay
taxes...
and issues dividends to stockholders who EACH pay taxes...
They get their cut, eventually!
You could be right. If the corp pays little tax but high dividends, then
indeed there is a compensation effect. It's up to the government then to
set the corporation and personal tax rates to achieve a suitable
balance. There could even be an argument for abolishing corporation tax
and make it all personal. But then there are arguments against any
income tax at all ......
|
Exactly. You solve a world of problems if you only tax consumption. It
becomes, essentially, a penalty for destroying resources.
John |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Spehro Pefhany
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Jan 21, 2005 2:54 am Post subject:
Re: OT: Red States to Secede |
|
|
On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 12:50:07 -0800, the renowned John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highSNIPlandTHIStechPLEASEnology.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Simple fix: neither subsidize nor tax corporations.
John
|
Works for me! But who would contribute to election campaigns if there
were no money to fight over?
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
John Larkin
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Jan 21, 2005 2:57 am Post subject:
Re: OT: Red States to Secede |
|
|
On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 19:39:58 +0000, John Woodgate
<jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote:
| Quote: |
There are all sort of things that could and should be done if engineers
were in charge rather than economists. For example, a power law for
personal tax rather than stepped rates, and extending to negative rates.
|
I did a regression analysis on the US income tax tables. They fit an
exponential to about 1%, up to the max rate.
John |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
John Larkin
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Jan 21, 2005 3:03 am Post subject:
Re: OT: Red States to Secede |
|
|
On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 13:55:07 -0500, Spehro Pefhany
<speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:
| Quote: | On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 10:33:07 -0800, the renowned John Larkin
jjlarkin@highSNIPlandTHIStechPLEASEnology.com> wrote:
On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 13:02:43 -0500, Spehro Pefhany
speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:
The only rational taxation is a universal sales tax, with exemptions
for basics.
Screw the exemptions for "basics" (that's the politically easier
route, however). Give people money if they need it. The exemptions
cause a LOT of complexity with a reasonable VAT/GST type system
because of the way input tax credits have to be handled. AFAIK no
country has been able to do that (politically) at a useful tax rate.
Here in California we have exemptions from sales tax for lots of
items; they just hit a key on the cash register, or program the
barcode scanner to handle it. But sure, you could combine universal
sales tax with a negative income tax; that's even simpler, if less
politically palatable.
And I didn't mean a VAT: I meant a single visible point-of-sale sales
tax; a tax entirely on end-user consumption. Businesses would pay the
tax on things they consumed, but not on things for resale. California
does that now, too.
John
A VAT/GST is much better. Otherwise there is tax embedded in exported
goods, which is unfair to domestic companies.
|
How so? If there's no corporate tax and no tax on materials, there's
zero tax embedded in exports.
| Quote: | And there is double
taxation because businesses don't really "consume" things. It's really
simpler too.
|
How double? Just apply the sales tax to consumed stuff (office
supplies, furniture, whatever) and not to stuff purchased to go into
resellable products. That way, the taxes are the same whether an exec
buys a car himself or whether he drives a company car. That eliminates
a lot of boondoggles.
| Quote: |
As a consumer:
You pay tax on everything. End of story (unless there are exemptions)
No records to keep, nothing.
|
Right. End of story.
So we don't need all this:
| Quote: | As a company (again assuming your business isn't involved with exempt
goods):
You pay tax on everything at X%.
You collect tax at X% on everything sold domestically.
You collect nothing (0%) on exported goods.
You remit (or claim a refund) of tax collected minus tax paid with
your sales tax return.
|
John |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
John Woodgate
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Jan 21, 2005 3:10 am Post subject:
Re: OT: Red States to Secede |
|
|
I read in sci.electronics.design that gwhite <gwhite@deadend.com> wrote
(in <41F017F8.5BEFC321@deadend.com>) about 'OT: Red States to Secede',
on Thu, 20 Jan 2005:
| Quote: | Given the left's hero FDR, I can't understand the
measure of hate for Bush when the two are compared.
|
The whole world has moved to the left since before WW2. Except some
people. (;-)
We may be seeing the beginning of a reaction, with New Labour in UK. The
Conservative opposition is in deep trouble trying to find something to
oppose. The Liberal Democrats are to the left of New Labour, but again
not far enough to get them a big enough following.
You can see the effect with Bush and Blair closely agreeing.
This movement may have started elsewhere but I don't follow
international politics that closely.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
John Woodgate
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Jan 21, 2005 3:12 am Post subject:
Re: OT: Red States to Secede |
|
|
I read in sci.electronics.design that John Larkin <jjlarkin@highSNIPland
THIStechPLEASEnology.com> wrote (in <6m60v098foeup04abbvuslgthn53an9f64@
4ax.com>) about 'OT: Red States to Secede', on Thu, 20 Jan 2005:
| Quote: | On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 19:39:58 +0000, John Woodgate
jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote:
There are all sort of things that could and should be done if engineers
were in charge rather than economists. For example, a power law for
personal tax rather than stepped rates, and extending to negative rates.
I did a regression analysis on the US income tax tables. They fit an
exponential to about 1%, up to the max rate.
Sounds good. Doesn't apply in UK. Stepped rates of 10%, 22% and 40%. |
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Spehro Pefhany
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Jan 21, 2005 3:28 am Post subject:
Re: OT: Red States to Secede |
|
|
On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 13:03:08 -0800, the renowned John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highSNIPlandTHIStechPLEASEnology.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
How so? If there's no corporate tax and no tax on materials, there's
zero tax embedded in exports.
|
Services have to be taxed too or the numbers are not going to work
out. But they all could be exempt rather than rebating the tax, you're
right.
I don't like the artificial distinction between "materials" and things
that are not literally used up that the US/Canadian state-level tax
systems impose. It results in tax embedded in exports and needless
complexity, just so the visible rate can be lower for consumers.
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
John S. Dyson
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Jan 21, 2005 4:21 am Post subject:
Re: OT: Red States to Secede |
|
|
In article <PuOdnSvA-fN8_m3cRVn-gw@kans.com>,
"jason" <jpop@carrollsweb.com> writes:
| Quote: |
"John S. Dyson" <toor@iquest.net> wrote in message
news:cspnat$2ctd$1@news.iquest.net...
In article <aLKdnZ4dQtmG3G3cRVn-sw@kans.com>,
"jason" <jpop@carrollsweb.com> writes:
"gwhite" <gwhite@deadend.com> wrote in message
news:41F017F8.5BEFC321@deadend.com...
jason wrote:
I don't know why the left hates Bush.
Gee, where do I begin?
He lied to get us into a war.
There is no proof that Bush lied. Please refer to a dictionary
for the definition of a lie, and you'll see that claim to be untrue.
Perhaps that untrue claim is a lie in itself (in fact, is more probable
than Bush telling lies -- because I cannot believe that you don't know
what a lie is.)
Hint: making a statement that might be incorrect is not necessarily
a lie. The same statements that Bush had made were essentially the
same as being presented by Blair/Clinton and other democrat/GOP
leaders. Even the French had effectively admitted to misbehavior
by the Iraqis, but didn't believe that the misbehavior reached
the level that would necessitate the loss of their illegal oil
for food income.
I'm not playing your semantic games.
You are dismissing proper language usage as a semantic game. You |
show the epitome of dishonesty. Perhaps part of your problem is
that you are playing the poetic usage 'is is' game -- I am just
looking at the real definitions and usage of words. You could redefine
a lie to be simply a statement that might be untrue, but then your
usage would make no sense to anyone else (except with other liars.)
| Quote: |
EVERYBODY KNEW there was nothing
there!!!
Not true. Again, further indication of visceral leftist dishonesty. |
Note that even BJ Clinton and his crew (the lefty demoncrats) essentially
agreed with the claims about WMD -- of course, they used the same
sources as the president. Do you actually believe that GWB or BJ Clinton
have private information sources outside of the government (and other
governments?) Convienient forgetting about even the Demoncrat party line
about WMDs and the dangers of Saddam are a part of the leftist dishonesty.
Perhaps you should condemn the damage done by the Church commission and
other ongoing weakening of the CIA (and other intelligence agencies.) Note
that Clintons damage done in 1995 (essentially weakening the human
intelligence capabilities) was exactly the opposite of what was needed.
Again, the information sources used by the president were indeed likely
worse than some of the public sources, but the damage that caused that
was almost 100% due to the leftist actions against the CIA. For example,
the partisan reply to the Watergate fiasco was the damage done to the
CIA by the Church commission. LBJ and Kennedy didn't really do much worse
against their enemies than Nixon, it is just that it was time (probably
partially due to partisan reasons) for the government to clean up its act.
So, the most obnoxious reasons for the leftist Democrats to weaken the
CIA, along with the incomptent handling of the Shah problem in Iran
by Carter, thereby eventually leading up to the 9/11 attacks, were purely
partisan or democrat incomptency.
John |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jason
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:39 am Post subject:
Re: OT: Red States to Secede |
|
|
"gwhite" <gwhite@deadend.com> wrote in message
news:41F017F8.5BEFC321@deadend.com...
| Quote: | jason wrote:
I don't know why the left hates Bush.
|
Gee, where do I begin?
He lied to get us into a war.
The soldiers are not adequately supplied.
The only people who were RIGHT about what to expect in Iraq were fired or
"resigned."
The people who were WRONG about Iraq were promoted and/or given medals.
Bush has the brain of a retarded clam.
Bush and his administration condone torture.
The Bush administration lied to the 9/11 clean up crew about the air
quality.
Bush lies to the American public. Cheney lies to the American republic.
Rumsfeld lies to the American public. Rice lies to the American public.
Hmm, why does the "Left" hate Bush? Beats me.
Jesus, I can't believe engineers can be so damned stupid.
And by the way, I am not a "lefty," I am a Liberal, and damned proud of it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jim Thompson
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:43 am Post subject:
Re: OT: Red States to Secede |
|
|
On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 17:39:08 -0600, "jason" <jpop@carrollsweb.com>
wrote:
| Quote: |
"gwhite" <gwhite@deadend.com> wrote in message
news:41F017F8.5BEFC321@deadend.com...
jason wrote:
I don't know why the left hates Bush.
Gee, where do I begin?
He lied to get us into a war.
The soldiers are not adequately supplied.
The only people who were RIGHT about what to expect in Iraq were fired or
"resigned."
The people who were WRONG about Iraq were promoted and/or given medals.
Bush has the brain of a retarded clam.
Bush and his administration condone torture.
The Bush administration lied to the 9/11 clean up crew about the air
quality.
Bush lies to the American public. Cheney lies to the American republic.
Rumsfeld lies to the American public. Rice lies to the American public.
Hmm, why does the "Left" hate Bush? Beats me.
Jesus, I can't believe engineers can be so damned stupid.
|
Probably, but not as ignorant as Liberals.
| Quote: |
And by the way, I am not a "lefty," I am a Liberal, and damned proud of it.
|
See I said you were ignorant ;-)
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
John Larkin
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:30 am Post subject:
Re: OT: Red States to Secede |
|
|
On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 17:39:08 -0600, "jason" <jpop@carrollsweb.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | Bush has the brain of a retarded clam.
|
He has a BS from Yale and a Masters from Harvard. He got better
grades than Kerry, and wasn't expelled for cheating like Teddy
Kennedy.
Where did you go to school?
Oh, his inauguration speech today was inspired, historical. He
explained what he's trying to do, and it's magnificent. Not easy, but
noble as all getout.
Oh, my spell checker suggests "sorry" for "Kerry." Right.
John |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
Memberlist
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in