| Author |
Message |
Guest
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 Posted:
Mon Apr 04, 2005 9:10 pm Post subject:
Monitor shakes w/ UPS |
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Hi all,
I have a bit of a strange problem. I have a fairly new, fairly high
quality 19" monitor that sometime suffers from an annoying "shake".
Usually it's most noticible in the upper left corner, but sometimes it
occurs around the entire perimiter of the screen. I recently connected
it to a SmartUPS 700, but the problem will still occur. I even
connected a 500 joules surge protector to the outlet which the UPS
connects to, but the problem STILL occurs. I've taken the monitor to
other locations and the problem does not happen. I live in an old
building (>75 yrs old), and I'm betting the wiring is also very old.
Things like turning on the washer/dryer set this off.
What else can I do to prevent this from happening? Is the APC SmartUPS
700 simply not powerful enough to "condition" the line? I know the UPS
works in terms of being able to keep my equipment online when there is
no AC power, but it does not appear to be helping w/ preventing these
spikes/surges (correct terminology?) from reaching my monitor. For my
own knowledge, why would this be the case?
Thanks for any insight...
joe.
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Mark Hansen
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Apr 04, 2005 9:10 pm Post subject:
Re: Monitor shakes w/ UPS |
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On 4/4/2005 11:15, joe_macdonald25@yahoo.com wrote:
| Quote: | Hi all,
I have a bit of a strange problem. I have a fairly new, fairly high
quality 19" monitor that sometime suffers from an annoying "shake".
Usually it's most noticible in the upper left corner, but sometimes it
occurs around the entire perimiter of the screen. I recently connected
it to a SmartUPS 700, but the problem will still occur. I even
connected a 500 joules surge protector to the outlet which the UPS
connects to, but the problem STILL occurs. I've taken the monitor to
other locations and the problem does not happen. I live in an old
building (>75 yrs old), and I'm betting the wiring is also very old.
Things like turning on the washer/dryer set this off.
What else can I do to prevent this from happening? Is the APC SmartUPS
700 simply not powerful enough to "condition" the line? I know the UPS
works in terms of being able to keep my equipment online when there is
no AC power, but it does not appear to be helping w/ preventing these
spikes/surges (correct terminology?) from reaching my monitor. For my
own knowledge, why would this be the case?
Thanks for any insight...
joe.
|
I would look for an EM source bothering the monitor from the outside. For
example, having electrical devices sitting too close to the face of the
monitor. I have an electric pencil sharpener which, when activated, causes
a terrible shake on the display screen - and it's sits about two feet from
the monitor. |
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w_tom
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Apr 05, 2005 3:10 am Post subject:
Re: Monitor shakes w/ UPS |
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The UPS does nothing useful to 'clean' AC power. Worse, in
battery backup mode, the typical plug-in UPS outputs power so
'dirty' as to be harmful to power strip protectors. UPS
manufacturers don't like to mention this because any
electrical protection useful on the power cord is already
inside that computer and monitor's power supplies. In short,
you have assumed features in both that power strip and in that
UPS that even their manufacturer's don't claim to provide.
In the meantime, shaking monitors were discussed in the
newsgroup alt.sys.pc-clone.dell on 19 Dec 2004 entitled
"Refresh rate problem with Dell monitor M993S " at
http://makeashorterlink.com/?P288511DA
Installed a plug-in UPS only to protect data from blackouts
and brownouts. That power strip protector only has the same
'protector' circuits as inside the UPS - does nothing useful
as indicated by few joules and other reasons. If you wanted
hardware protection, that is another discussion elsewhere.
None would have anything to do with a shaking monitor.
joe_macdonald25@yahoo.com wrote:
| Quote: | Hi all,
I have a bit of a strange problem. I have a fairly new, fairly high
quality 19" monitor that sometime suffers from an annoying "shake".
Usually it's most noticible in the upper left corner, but sometimes it
occurs around the entire perimiter of the screen. I recently connected
it to a SmartUPS 700, but the problem will still occur. I even
connected a 500 joules surge protector to the outlet which the UPS
connects to, but the problem STILL occurs. I've taken the monitor to
other locations and the problem does not happen. I live in an old
building (>75 yrs old), and I'm betting the wiring is also very old.
Things like turning on the washer/dryer set this off.
What else can I do to prevent this from happening? Is the APC SmartUPS
700 simply not powerful enough to "condition" the line? I know the UPS
works in terms of being able to keep my equipment online when there is
no AC power, but it does not appear to be helping w/ preventing these
spikes/surges (correct terminology?) from reaching my monitor. For my
own knowledge, why would this be the case?
Thanks for any insight...
joe. |
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HedgeWarden
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Apr 06, 2005 3:10 am Post subject:
Re: Monitor shakes w/ UPS |
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Joe,
We had jitter problems in our monitors when we set them on top of a
power distribution box. That was back in the eighties, and people
don't use those power distribution boxes anymore, as far as I know.
(They had a "master" on/off switch, and switches for the system unit,
monitor, printer, and a few additional units. They were designed to
sit between the system unit, usually horizontal back then, and the
monitor.)
But the 60 Hz radiation from the box was too much for the monitor to
bear.
Any-ho, look for any electrical appliances near your monitor -
flourescent light, power strip, even an incandescent lamp.
It "may be" your building wiring. However, if the wiring uses cable
(hot and neutral in a common sheath) instead of separate wires at some
distance from each other (that predates even me - called "post and ??"
or something), it is unlikely to create much of a magnetic field very
far from the wires. More likely it is something much closer to the
monitor.
Here is a clue - if the wires to-and-from the appliance or circuit are
close together, the magnetic fields cancel each other a very short
distance from the wires. If the wires are separated by a distance, as
apparently they were inside the aforementioned box, they will radiate a
60 Hz magnetic field for some distance, potentially messing with that
delicate stream of electrons hurrying from the "guns" at the back of
the CRT to the precision phosphorescent dots on the face of the CRT.
-Howard
joe_macdonald25@yahoo.com wrote:
| Quote: | Hi all,
I have a bit of a strange problem. I have a fairly new, fairly high
quality 19" monitor that sometime suffers from an annoying "shake".
Usually it's most noticible in the upper left corner, but sometimes
it
occurs around the entire perimiter of the screen. I recently
connected
it to a SmartUPS 700, but the problem will still occur. I even
connected a 500 joules surge protector to the outlet which the UPS
connects to, but the problem STILL occurs. I've taken the monitor to
other locations and the problem does not happen. I live in an old
building (>75 yrs old), and I'm betting the wiring is also very old.
Things like turning on the washer/dryer set this off.
What else can I do to prevent this from happening? Is the APC
SmartUPS
700 simply not powerful enough to "condition" the line? I know the
UPS
works in terms of being able to keep my equipment online when there
is
no AC power, but it does not appear to be helping w/ preventing these
spikes/surges (correct terminology?) from reaching my monitor. For
my
own knowledge, why would this be the case?
Thanks for any insight...
joe. |
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Robert Baer
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Apr 06, 2005 6:10 am Post subject:
Re: Monitor shakes w/ UPS |
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|
HedgeWarden wrote:
| Quote: | Joe,
We had jitter problems in our monitors when we set them on top of a
power distribution box. That was back in the eighties, and people
don't use those power distribution boxes anymore, as far as I know.
(They had a "master" on/off switch, and switches for the system unit,
monitor, printer, and a few additional units. They were designed to
sit between the system unit, usually horizontal back then, and the
monitor.)
But the 60 Hz radiation from the box was too much for the monitor to
bear.
Any-ho, look for any electrical appliances near your monitor -
flourescent light, power strip, even an incandescent lamp.
It "may be" your building wiring. However, if the wiring uses cable
(hot and neutral in a common sheath) instead of separate wires at some
distance from each other (that predates even me - called "post and ??"
or something), it is unlikely to create much of a magnetic field very
far from the wires. More likely it is something much closer to the
monitor.
Here is a clue - if the wires to-and-from the appliance or circuit are
close together, the magnetic fields cancel each other a very short
distance from the wires. If the wires are separated by a distance, as
apparently they were inside the aforementioned box, they will radiate a
60 Hz magnetic field for some distance, potentially messing with that
delicate stream of electrons hurrying from the "guns" at the back of
the CRT to the precision phosphorescent dots on the face of the CRT.
-Howard
joe_macdonald25@yahoo.com wrote:
Hi all,
I have a bit of a strange problem. I have a fairly new, fairly high
quality 19" monitor that sometime suffers from an annoying "shake".
Usually it's most noticible in the upper left corner, but sometimes
it
occurs around the entire perimiter of the screen. I recently
connected
it to a SmartUPS 700, but the problem will still occur. I even
connected a 500 joules surge protector to the outlet which the UPS
connects to, but the problem STILL occurs. I've taken the monitor to
other locations and the problem does not happen. I live in an old
building (>75 yrs old), and I'm betting the wiring is also very old.
Things like turning on the washer/dryer set this off.
What else can I do to prevent this from happening? Is the APC
SmartUPS
700 simply not powerful enough to "condition" the line? I know the
UPS
works in terms of being able to keep my equipment online when there
is
no AC power, but it does not appear to be helping w/ preventing these
spikes/surges (correct terminology?) from reaching my monitor. For
my
own knowledge, why would this be the case?
Thanks for any insight...
joe.
FYI: |
The older system is called "knob and post"; used until the late
1930's AFAIK.
************
AC power transformers near the monitor can also cause what is described. |
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Mik
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Apr 06, 2005 9:10 am Post subject:
Re: Monitor shakes w/ UPS |
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|
Actually it's refered to as "knob and tube"
FYI
Robert Baer wrote:
| Quote: | HedgeWarden wrote:
Joe,
We had jitter problems in our monitors when we set them on top of a
power distribution box. That was back in the eighties, and people
don't use those power distribution boxes anymore, as far as I know.
(They had a "master" on/off switch, and switches for the system unit,
monitor, printer, and a few additional units. They were designed to
sit between the system unit, usually horizontal back then, and the
monitor.)
But the 60 Hz radiation from the box was too much for the monitor to
bear.
Any-ho, look for any electrical appliances near your monitor -
flourescent light, power strip, even an incandescent lamp.
It "may be" your building wiring. However, if the wiring uses cable
(hot and neutral in a common sheath) instead of separate wires at some
distance from each other (that predates even me - called "post and ??"
or something), it is unlikely to create much of a magnetic field very
far from the wires. More likely it is something much closer to the
monitor.
Here is a clue - if the wires to-and-from the appliance or circuit are
close together, the magnetic fields cancel each other a very short
distance from the wires. If the wires are separated by a distance, as
apparently they were inside the aforementioned box, they will radiate a
60 Hz magnetic field for some distance, potentially messing with that
delicate stream of electrons hurrying from the "guns" at the back of
the CRT to the precision phosphorescent dots on the face of the CRT.
-Howard
joe_macdonald25@yahoo.com wrote:
Hi all,
I have a bit of a strange problem. I have a fairly new, fairly high
quality 19" monitor that sometime suffers from an annoying "shake".
Usually it's most noticible in the upper left corner, but sometimes
it
occurs around the entire perimiter of the screen. I recently
connected
it to a SmartUPS 700, but the problem will still occur. I even
connected a 500 joules surge protector to the outlet which the UPS
connects to, but the problem STILL occurs. I've taken the monitor to
other locations and the problem does not happen. I live in an old
building (>75 yrs old), and I'm betting the wiring is also very old.
Things like turning on the washer/dryer set this off.
What else can I do to prevent this from happening? Is the APC
SmartUPS
700 simply not powerful enough to "condition" the line? I know the
UPS
works in terms of being able to keep my equipment online when there
is
no AC power, but it does not appear to be helping w/ preventing these
spikes/surges (correct terminology?) from reaching my monitor. For
my
own knowledge, why would this be the case?
Thanks for any insight...
joe.
FYI:
The older system is called "knob and post"; used until the late
1930's AFAIK.
************
AC power transformers near the monitor can also cause what is described. |
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Robert Baer
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Apr 07, 2005 12:10 am Post subject:
Re: Monitor shakes w/ UPS |
|
|
Mik wrote:
| Quote: | Actually it's refered to as "knob and tube"
FYI
Robert Baer wrote:
HedgeWarden wrote:
Joe,
We had jitter problems in our monitors when we set them on top of a
power distribution box. That was back in the eighties, and people
don't use those power distribution boxes anymore, as far as I know.
(They had a "master" on/off switch, and switches for the system unit,
monitor, printer, and a few additional units. They were designed to
sit between the system unit, usually horizontal back then, and the
monitor.)
But the 60 Hz radiation from the box was too much for the monitor to
bear.
Any-ho, look for any electrical appliances near your monitor -
flourescent light, power strip, even an incandescent lamp.
It "may be" your building wiring. However, if the wiring uses cable
(hot and neutral in a common sheath) instead of separate wires at some
distance from each other (that predates even me - called "post and ??"
or something), it is unlikely to create much of a magnetic field very
far from the wires. More likely it is something much closer to the
monitor.
Here is a clue - if the wires to-and-from the appliance or circuit are
close together, the magnetic fields cancel each other a very short
distance from the wires. If the wires are separated by a distance, as
apparently they were inside the aforementioned box, they will radiate a
60 Hz magnetic field for some distance, potentially messing with that
delicate stream of electrons hurrying from the "guns" at the back of
the CRT to the precision phosphorescent dots on the face of the CRT.
-Howard
joe_macdonald25@yahoo.com wrote:
Hi all,
I have a bit of a strange problem. I have a fairly new, fairly high
quality 19" monitor that sometime suffers from an annoying "shake".
Usually it's most noticible in the upper left corner, but sometimes
it
occurs around the entire perimiter of the screen. I recently
connected
it to a SmartUPS 700, but the problem will still occur. I even
connected a 500 joules surge protector to the outlet which the UPS
connects to, but the problem STILL occurs. I've taken the monitor to
other locations and the problem does not happen. I live in an old
building (>75 yrs old), and I'm betting the wiring is also very old.
Things like turning on the washer/dryer set this off.
What else can I do to prevent this from happening? Is the APC
SmartUPS
700 simply not powerful enough to "condition" the line? I know the
UPS
works in terms of being able to keep my equipment online when there
is
no AC power, but it does not appear to be helping w/ preventing these
spikes/surges (correct terminology?) from reaching my monitor. For
my
own knowledge, why would this be the case?
Thanks for any insight...
joe.
FYI:
The older system is called "knob and post"; used until the late
1930's AFAIK.
************
AC power transformers near the monitor can also cause what is described.
"knob and post" might be another term... |
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HedgeWarden
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Apr 07, 2005 6:10 am Post subject:
Re: Monitor shakes w/ UPS |
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A short Google suggests that "knob and post" and "knob and tube" are
both correct terms for the old wiring that ran separate wires for the
hot and common. They were strung in space, in my experience, between
small ceramic insulators - in the same fashion as distribution wiring
on power poles, but on a smaller 110/220V scale. It is the relatively
large spacing between the wires that could cause stray magnetic fields
some distance from them.
The point about transformers is great. Transformers operate using
magnetic fields to transfer energy from one circuit to another. If
they were 100% efficient, no magnetic energy would escape. But they
are not. Even the relatively far weaker earth's magnetic field
influences the path of electrons in a CRT - luckly it is a static
influence and so does not create flicker. An unshielded or poorly
shielded transformer close to a CRT will wreak havock on the image.
Note that wall-warts are usually transformers in a plastic box.
-Howard |
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