PC Based Oscilliscopes

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PC Based Oscilliscopes
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Dale H. Cook
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 7:21 pm Post subject: Re: PC Based Oscilliscopes

On 21 Jan 2005 16:30:42 -0800, r2000swler@hotmail.com wrote:

Quote:

A "real" scope is
much better, but much more expensive.

??? He said his budget is $200 - $300, and he can buy a older Tek or
HP 100 MHz dual trace 'scope for that kind of money.

Dale H. Cook, Chief Engineer, WWWR Roanoke VA, WCQV Moneta VA, WKBA
WZZI Vinton VA, WKPA WLNI WZZU Lynchburg VA, WMNA/WMNA-FM Gretna VA,
WOWZ Appomattox VA
http://members.cox.net/dalehcook/starcity.shtml

Dale H. Cook
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 7:40 pm Post subject: Re: PC Based Oscilliscopes

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 22:32:54 -0800, Bruce Lane wrote:

Quote:

When I buy test equipment, I expect it to be serviceable for a
MINIMUM of ten years. Very few items that I've bought new have measured
up to that requirement.

Same here, but I carry very little that I've bought new. Most of what
I have bought new, and use on a regular basis, was bought 10 - 20
years ago. The newer items that I carry are mainly ones that did not
exist, or that I did not need, 10 - 20 years ago, such as my CAT5
tester.

The instruments that I use for work have to be rugged and reliable, as
they live in my Explorer and frequently travel up rough mountain roads
to transmitter sites. My road 'scope is a 30+ year old Tek 453,
although the probes are fairly recent. I have, however, replaced my HP
audio generator and distortion analyzer, both only slightly newer than
the Tek, with my laptop equipped with a USB audio card and audio
generation/analysis software.

Dale H. Cook, Chief Engineer, WWWR Roanoke VA, WCQV Moneta VA, WKBA
WZZI Vinton VA, WKPA WLNI WZZU Lynchburg VA, WMNA/WMNA-FM Gretna VA,
WOWZ Appomattox VA
http://members.cox.net/dalehcook/starcity.shtml

Jim Douglas
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 8:26 pm Post subject: Re: PC Based Oscilliscopes

Thanks for all the input, I am going to pass on the PC stuff and shop EBay
and ?? for a good used scope. Any recommendations other than EBay?

"Jim Douglas" <james.douglas@genesis-software.com> wrote in message
news:Re6dnVkvnsMeDGzcRVn-gw@comcast.com...

Quote:

Anyone use these? Any recommendations good or bad? I am looking at some
that
have Scope, Meter, Spectrum Analysis, etc. Are the "multi-use" type PC
scopes any good? I see some that are down around $200-300? which is in my
price range.

Thanks!

Jim Douglas
www.genesis-software.com
Carrollton, TX USA 75006
Latitude 32.9616
Longitude 96.8916

Bob Masta
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 8:43 pm Post subject: Re: PC Based Oscilliscopes

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 17:38:26 -0600, "Jim Douglas"
<james.douglas@genesis-software.com> wrote:

Quote:

My personal preference is a conventional benchtop
scope for high frequencies, and a sound-card-based
PC scope for audio work. I use my own Daqarta
shareware for the PC scope (shameless plug). It
only runs in real-mode DOS on old ISA-bus systems
with Sound Blaster cards (or lab-type boards, which
are pricey). I run an old cast-off 16 MHz 386 system
that works just fine for this purpose.

The PC gives me real-time spectral analysis, which
is great for distortion measurement and especially
for distortion adjustments. Another big advantage is
that the PC can generate complex test signals and
keep them exactly in sync with the input signal
that is responding to those signals, so you can
use signal averaging to measure noise *way*
below the noise floor.

Windows-based version is under construction,
but won't be released for several months yet.

Hope this helps!

Bob Masta
dqatechATdaqartaDOTcom

D A Q A R T A
Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis
www.daqarta.com

craigm
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 8:53 pm Post subject: Re: PC Based Oscilliscopes

Jim Douglas wrote:

Quote:

Thanks for all the input, I am going to pass on the PC stuff and shop EBay
and ?? for a good used scope. Any recommendations other than EBay?

Try looking for used equipment from leasing companies.

Also look for plant closings that may result in equipment sales or auctions.

craigm

Rich Webb
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 9:54 pm Post subject: Re: PC Based Oscilliscopes

On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 08:26:08 -0600, "Jim Douglas"
<james.douglas@genesis-software.com> wrote:

Quote:

Thanks for all the input, I am going to pass on the PC stuff and shop EBay
and ?? for a good used scope. Any recommendations other than EBay?

There are several places around the internet that sell reconditioned
test equipment. You might end up spending a bit more than at ebay but
you (should be) getting something that has been cleaned, op tested, and
has all of its parts. Possibly also a better warranty.

There are a jillion out there, but a couple that I get periodic catalogs
from are:
http://www.testequity.com/
http://www.testequipmentconnection.com/

--
Rich Webb Norfolk, VA

mike
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 11:55 pm Post subject: Re: PC Based Oscilliscopes

Dale H. Cook wrote:

Quote:

On 21 Jan 2005 16:30:42 -0800, r2000swler@hotmail.com wrote:

A "real" scope is
much better, but much more expensive.

??? He said his budget is $200 - $300, and he can buy a older Tek or
HP 100 MHz dual trace 'scope for that kind of money.

Dale H. Cook, Chief Engineer, WWWR Roanoke VA, WCQV Moneta VA, WKBA
WZZI Vinton VA, WKPA WLNI WZZU Lynchburg VA, WMNA/WMNA-FM Gretna VA,
WOWZ Appomattox VA
http://members.cox.net/dalehcook/starcity.shtml

PC scopes "can" be good, but you'll pay thru the nose for one.
The cheapo ones are way less capable than a standalone except in
specific narrow applications.

Ham radio swap meets are the best places to buy used scopes.
Tektronix 7000 series is an excellent place to start. Plugins can be
had on EBAY, but mainframes are too heavy to ship safely/affordably.
Portables like 453, 465 are also excellent scopes. Make sure you get
manuals. If you have to buy used manuals, they'll cost you more than
the scope. Ditto for probes.

If you have an urgent need and are losing money cause you don't have a
scope, by all means go see a used equipment dealer. You'll pay 10X the
price, but you might get a reliable scope.
If it's a hobby application, go to some swap meets. Buy the best scope
you can for $20. Keep your eye out for a killer deal on a TEK or HP
scope to replace it. They are available cheap if you're vigilant.

I have a killer TEK TDS540 for sale at the link in the sig. It's $2K
and that's still 25% of what you'd pay at a used dealer. You don't even
want to know what they cost new.
mike

--
Return address is VALID.
Wanted, PCMCIA SCSI Card for HP m820 CDRW.
FS 500MHz Tek DSOscilloscope TDS540 Make Offer
http://nm7u.tripod.com/homepage/te.html
Wanted, 12.1" LCD for Gateway Solo 5300. Samsung LT121SU-121
Bunch of stuff For Sale and Wanted at the link below.
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Monitor/4710/

Dr. Anton T. Squeegee
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 12:38 am Post subject: Re: PC Based Oscilliscopes

Quote:

"Jim Douglas" <james.douglas@genesis-software.com> wrote in message
news:Re6dnVkvnsMeDGzcRVn-gw@comcast.com...
Anyone use these? Any recommendations good or bad? I am looking at some
that
have Scope, Meter, Spectrum Analysis, etc. Are the "multi-use" type PC
scopes any good? I see some that are down around $200-300? which is in my
price range.

Thanks!

Jim Douglas
www.genesis-software.com
Carrollton, TX USA 75006
Latitude 32.9616
Longitude 96.8916

Thanks for all the input, I am going to pass on the PC stuff and shop EBay
and ?? for a good used scope. Any recommendations other than EBay?

Sure. Check http://www.arrl.org/hamfests.html for hamfests in your
area. They happen all over the country (heck, all over the world) at
various times during the year, and the swap meet portion of any hamfest
bears (usually) a 95% or higher focus on electronics in terms of test
gear, radios, computers, etc.

If you've never been to such an event in your life, I would
(SHAMELESS PLUG ALERT) take a look at an article I wrote on my own page
at this link: http://www.bluefeathertech.com/technoid/Scrounger.html

This is a guide to scrounging at both surplus places and swap
meets. I hope you find it helpful.

Happy hunting.

--
Dr. Anton T. Squeegee, Director, Dutch Surrealist Plumbing Institute.
(Known to some as Bruce Lane, ARS KC7GR,
kyrrin (a/t) bluefeathertech[d=o=t]calm -- www.bluefeathertech.com
"If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped
with surreal ports?"

David
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 12:39 am Post subject: Re: PC Based Oscilliscopes

http://www.metrictest.com/

On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 15:54:21 GMT, Rich Webb
<bbew.ar@mapson.nozirev.ten> wrote:

Quote:

On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 08:26:08 -0600, "Jim Douglas"
james.douglas@genesis-software.com> wrote:

Thanks for all the input, I am going to pass on the PC stuff and shop EBay
and ?? for a good used scope. Any recommendations other than EBay?

There are several places around the internet that sell reconditioned
test equipment. You might end up spending a bit more than at ebay but
you (should be) getting something that has been cleaned, op tested, and
has all of its parts. Possibly also a better warranty.

There are a jillion out there, but a couple that I get periodic catalogs
from are:
http://www.testequity.com/
http://www.testequipmentconnection.com/

Telamon
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 3:44 am Post subject: Re: PC Based Oscilliscopes

In article <MPG.1c5c3d153e17de829896ac@localhost>,
Dr. Anton T. Squeegee <SpammersAreVermin@dev.null> wrote:

Quote:

In article <uLadnd295aUM_G_cRVn-qg@comcast.com>,
james.douglas@genesis- software.com says...

< Top-posting corrected. Please don't top-post! See this link for
the reason why: http://www.html-faq.com/etiquette/?toppost

"Jim Douglas" <james.douglas@genesis-software.com> wrote in message
news:Re6dnVkvnsMeDGzcRVn-gw@comcast.com...
Anyone use these? Any recommendations good or bad? I am looking
at some
that
have Scope, Meter, Spectrum Analysis, etc. Are the "multi-use"
type PC scopes any good? I see some that are down around
$200-300? which is in my price range.

Thanks!

Jim Douglas www.genesis-software.com Carrollton, TX USA 75006
Latitude 32.9616 Longitude 96.8916

Thanks for all the input, I am going to pass on the PC stuff and
shop EBay and ?? for a good used scope. Any recommendations other
than EBay?

Sure. Check http://www.arrl.org/hamfests.html for hamfests in your
area. They happen all over the country (heck, all over the world) at
various times during the year, and the swap meet portion of any
hamfest bears (usually) a 95% or higher focus on electronics in terms
of test gear, radios, computers, etc.

If you've never been to such an event in your life, I would
(SHAMELESS PLUG ALERT) take a look at an article I wrote on my own
page at this link:
http://www.bluefeathertech.com/technoid/Scrounger.html

This is a guide to scrounging at both surplus places and swap meets.
I hope you find it helpful.

Happy hunting.

It is very rare for a cross posted article to RRS to be useful. Most are
Trolls. I enjoyed your web page on scrounging. I'm taken aback on the
prices that you posted about equipment however quoted below.

Quote:

Dr. Anton T. Squeegee wrote:

If you want some serious bandwidth, you should have a look at the
Tek 7904 or 7104. The base frames have bandwidths of 500MHz and 1GHz,
respectively, and you should be able to get a good 7904 with plug-ins
for a little over $300.

A TDS7104 sold new in the $30K to $40K range depending on options. I
have priced this scope at used equipment resellers in the $8 to $10K
range. The equipment is sold in calibration and working with a short
warranty like 30 days for verification that the equipment is in proper
working condition from resellers.

At prices under $1K even with no guarantees I expect this equipment is
hot at those prices. All equipment from the major makers have serial
numbers throughout the equipment and in the firmware. If you ever send
this equipment in for repair you might be in for an unpleasant surprise.

In the last few years there is a new class of scope called real time.
The reason I'm responding to this thread is that you just happened to
mention a real time scope the TDS7104. Tek calls real time scopes DPO or
Digital Phosphor scopes. Most digital scope are repetitive sampling
making them a poor choice for low frequency events like an intermittent
pulse and these are useless for high speed single shot events. The DPO's
resemble an analog scope with memory. There are the best suited digital
type for single shot or low frequently occurring events. The DPO's are
designed for a very high re-acquisition rate compared to digital
sampling types, which is why they are better suited for the low
frequency events as they are more likely to be actually sampling the
input during an event rather than being in another part of the
processing cycle. DPO's have a rapid processing cycle and also have most
of that cycle being actual sample time so they are able to catch that
infrequent pulse. The repetitive sample high speed scopes generally have
cycle times of 200KHz or slower and most of that cycle time is signal
processing and display. Repetitive sampling scopes are good at any type
of recurring signal like clocks. They are poor choice at looking at data
streams with long patterns. The only way you can look at long patterns
is at the bit level or eye mode.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

Ed Price
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 7:43 am Post subject: Re: PC Based Oscilliscopes

"Telamon" <telamon_spamshield@pacbell.net.is.invalid> wrote in message
news:telamon_spamshield-83B898.13443422012005@newssvr21-ext.news.prodigy.com...

Quote:

In article <MPG.1c5c3d153e17de829896ac@localhost>,
Dr. Anton T. Squeegee <SpammersAreVermin@dev.null> wrote:

SNIP

Quote:

This is a guide to scrounging at both surplus places and swap meets.
I hope you find it helpful.

Happy hunting.

It is very rare for a cross posted article to RRS to be useful. Most are
Trolls. I enjoyed your web page on scrounging. I'm taken aback on the
prices that you posted about equipment however quoted below.

Dr. Anton T. Squeegee wrote:

If you want some serious bandwidth, you should have a look at the
Tek 7904 or 7104. The base frames have bandwidths of 500MHz and 1GHz,
respectively, and you should be able to get a good 7904 with plug-ins
for a little over $300.

A TDS7104 sold new in the $30K to $40K range depending on options. I
have priced this scope at used equipment resellers in the $8 to $10K
range. The equipment is sold in calibration and working with a short
warranty like 30 days for verification that the equipment is in proper
working condition from resellers.

At prices under $1K even with no guarantees I expect this equipment is
hot at those prices. All equipment from the major makers have serial
numbers throughout the equipment and in the firmware. If you ever send
this equipment in for repair you might be in for an unpleasant surprise.

In the last few years there is a new class of scope called real time.
The reason I'm responding to this thread is that you just happened to
mention a real time scope the TDS7104.

No, he didn't. He was describing the Tek 7000 series mainframes and
plug-ins, NOT any of the TDS series scopes. There are many years, and a
world of difference, between the two.

Ed
wb6wsn

Telamon
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 8:33 am Post subject: Re: PC Based Oscilliscopes

In article <djDId.8080$0B.7896@fed1read02>,
"Ed Price" <edprice@cox.net> wrote:

Quote:

"Telamon" <telamon_spamshield@pacbell.net.is.invalid> wrote in message
news:telamon_spamshield-83B898.13443422012005@newssvr21-ext.news.prodigy.com..
.
In article <MPG.1c5c3d153e17de829896ac@localhost>,
Dr. Anton T. Squeegee <SpammersAreVermin@dev.null> wrote:

SNIP

This is a guide to scrounging at both surplus places and swap meets.
I hope you find it helpful.

Happy hunting.

It is very rare for a cross posted article to RRS to be useful. Most are
Trolls. I enjoyed your web page on scrounging. I'm taken aback on the
prices that you posted about equipment however quoted below.

Dr. Anton T. Squeegee wrote:

If you want some serious bandwidth, you should have a look at the
Tek 7904 or 7104. The base frames have bandwidths of 500MHz and 1GHz,
respectively, and you should be able to get a good 7904 with plug-ins
for a little over $300.

A TDS7104 sold new in the $30K to $40K range depending on options. I
have priced this scope at used equipment resellers in the $8 to $10K
range. The equipment is sold in calibration and working with a short
warranty like 30 days for verification that the equipment is in proper
working condition from resellers.

At prices under $1K even with no guarantees I expect this equipment is
hot at those prices. All equipment from the major makers have serial
numbers throughout the equipment and in the firmware. If you ever send
this equipment in for repair you might be in for an unpleasant surprise.

In the last few years there is a new class of scope called real time.
The reason I'm responding to this thread is that you just happened to
mention a real time scope the TDS7104.

No, he didn't. He was describing the Tek 7000 series mainframes and
plug-ins, NOT any of the TDS series scopes. There are many years, and a
world of difference, between the two.

Sorry about that. That sort of thing happens when manufactures reuse
numbers.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

Tom Woodrow
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 12:44 am Post subject: Re: PC Based Oscilliscopes

http://www.saelig.com/PR_Stingray.htm

Jim Douglas wrote:

Quote:

Anyone use these? Any recommendations good or bad? I am looking at some that
have Scope, Meter, Spectrum Analysis, etc. Are the "multi-use" type PC
scopes any good? I see some that are down around $200-300? which is in my
price range.

Thanks!

Jim Douglas
www.genesis-software.com
Carrollton, TX USA 75006
Latitude 32.9616
Longitude 96.8916

Wm.M.Chiaramonte
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 5:32 pm Post subject: Re: PC Based Oscilliscopes

Dale H. Cook wrote:

Quote:

Mine he can't! Are you talking analog or digital? I own one that does
both (TEK 2232) but wouldn't dream of parting with it for anything like
$300+. I've looked at refurb house prices and even there you will shell
out >= $1k for a digital scope. If he is trying to decide on either a
conventional "lab" scope or a PC-based one let's compare apples to
apples shall we?!

ww

Dale H. Cook
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 7:47 pm Post subject: Re: PC Based Oscilliscopes

On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 06:32:44 -0500, "Wm.M.Chiaramonte"
<stratose@netscape.net> wrote:

Quote:

??? He said his budget is $200 - $300, and he can buy a older Tek or
HP 100 MHz dual trace 'scope for that kind of money.

Are you talking analog or digital?

Analog - Tek 45x or 46x series, for example.

Dale H. Cook, Chief Engineer, WWWR Roanoke VA, WCQV Moneta VA, WKBA
WZZI Vinton VA, WKPA WLNI WZZU Lynchburg VA, WMNA/WMNA-FM Gretna VA,
WOWZ Appomattox VA
http://members.cox.net/dalehcook/starcity.shtml

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