| Author |
Message |
jakdedert
Guest
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 Posted:
Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:15 am Post subject:
Re: DANGER: Charge an american device in Europe |
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Jerry G. wrote:
| Quote: | I myself have had this experience. I have also had clients have the
same experience. This is if you take an American device using a power
transformer, and use it on 50 Hz, when it was designed for 60 Hz
only. At 50 Hz the unit will run hotter. If the transformer is
working at near to its capacity at 60 Hz, when working at 50 Hz, it
will run very hot. The lower the mains frequency, the hotter it will
run.
Not IME. Sure they run a little hotter, that's just physics, but I've yet |
to see one melt down...and it's nowhere near as inevitable as NSM seems to
intimate.
| Quote: | If you have a transformer that is designed to work at 50 Hz, and it
is run on 60 Hz, it will not heat up as much. In fact, it may run
more efficiently at a higher mains frequency. I will certainly run a
bit cooler, and may have a longer life span.
|
It may have at that. But to state emphatically that it absolutely *will*
melt down and burn if run on 50 Hz, simply because it was sold for the U.S.
market is just wrong. I've had too many devices run for too many hours in
exactly that situation to believe that. *None of them* melted down, or even
got uncomfortably hot.
| Quote: |
Some types of switching power supplies are also critical to the mains
frequency. These are the ones that are using an input voltage
multiplier circuit in them. If the mains frequency is lowered, its
efficiency will be effected.
Most of my European experience was in the 80's when most wall warts were |
simply transformers with rectifiers....
jak
| Quote: |
"jakdedert" <jdedert@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:2VBHd.46367$Zv5.2453@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
NSM wrote:
"jakdedert" <jdedert@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:c8DGd.19686$BP1.103@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
Why 100v? He specifically stated that it was a 120v appliance from
America.
Devices made for the US market have barely enough iron at 60 Hz. At
50 Hz they almost inevitably die. It's a fundamental law of
electricity.
From experience...you're just wrong. There may be some devices which
will smoke from 60 vs. 50 Hz, but I would guess they are in the
distinct minority.
Do you have some direct experience which supports you contention?
jak
N |
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NSM
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:38 am Post subject:
Re: DANGER: Charge an american device in Europe |
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"jakdedert" <jdedert@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:xhFHd.47438$Zv5.10785@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
| Not IME. Sure they run a little hotter, that's just physics, but I've yet
| to see one melt down...and it's nowhere near as inevitable as NSM seems to
| intimate.
....
| It may have at that. But to state emphatically that it absolutely *will*
| melt down and burn if run on 50 Hz, simply because it was sold for the
U.S.
| market is just wrong. I've had too many devices run for too many hours in
| exactly that situation to believe that. *None of them* melted down, or
even
| got uncomfortably hot.
....
What is your line voltage? BTW, as far as "absolutely *will*", remember
Murphy?
N |
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jakdedert
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:54 am Post subject:
Re: DANGER: Charge an american device in Europe |
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NSM wrote:
| Quote: | "jakdedert" <jdedert@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:xhFHd.47438$Zv5.10785@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
Not IME. Sure they run a little hotter, that's just physics, but
I've yet to see one melt down...and it's nowhere near as inevitable
as NSM seems to intimate.
...
It may have at that. But to state emphatically that it absolutely
*will* melt down and burn if run on 50 Hz, simply because it was
sold for the U.S. market is just wrong. I've had too many devices
run for too many hours in exactly that situation to believe that.
*None of them* melted down, or even got uncomfortably hot.
...
What is your line voltage? BTW, as far as "absolutely *will*",
remember Murphy?
N
|
I understand Murphy...he's a permanent resident here. My line voltage
varies from 101v (my house) to just under 125v (my shop/office). That's
immaterial. The issue is the line voltage where I've run these
devices...sometimes up to 240v in England--on a cheap transformer--not a
single meltdown. The stepup transformer, OTOH got a little warm.....
jak
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James Sweet
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:26 pm Post subject:
Re: DANGER: Charge an american device in Europe |
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"jakdedert" <jdedert@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:vJGHd.47701$Zv5.46952@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
| Quote: | NSM wrote:
"jakdedert" <jdedert@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:xhFHd.47438$Zv5.10785@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
Not IME. Sure they run a little hotter, that's just physics, but
I've yet to see one melt down...and it's nowhere near as inevitable
as NSM seems to intimate.
...
It may have at that. But to state emphatically that it absolutely
*will* melt down and burn if run on 50 Hz, simply because it was
sold for the U.S. market is just wrong. I've had too many devices
run for too many hours in exactly that situation to believe that.
*None of them* melted down, or even got uncomfortably hot.
...
What is your line voltage? BTW, as far as "absolutely *will*",
remember Murphy?
N
I understand Murphy...he's a permanent resident here. My line voltage
varies from 101v (my house) to just under 125v (my shop/office). That's
immaterial. The issue is the line voltage where I've run these
devices...sometimes up to 240v in England--on a cheap transformer--not a
single meltdown. The stepup transformer, OTOH got a little warm.....
jak
|
Yikes, I'd be worried about such a large variation, I'd be calling the power
company if my line voltage was under 110 or over 125, but in practice it's
always been within a volt or two of 120v. |
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NSM
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:48 pm Post subject:
Re: DANGER: Charge an american device in Europe |
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"jakdedert" <jdedert@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:vJGHd.47701$Zv5.46952@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
| I understand Murphy...he's a permanent resident here. My line voltage
| varies from 101v (my house) to just under 125v (my shop/office). That's
| immaterial. The issue is the line voltage where I've run these
| devices...sometimes up to 240v in England--on a cheap transformer--not a
| single meltdown. The stepup transformer, OTOH got a little warm.....
If you get away with it, great, but I have seen way too many of the little
buggers go tits up. Of course if you wanted them to burn out they never
would.
N |
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John Woodgate
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Jan 20, 2005 2:23 pm Post subject:
Re: DANGER: Charge an american device in Europe |
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I read in sci.electronics.design that jakdedert <jdedert@bellsouth.net>
wrote (in <2VBHd.46367$Zv5.2453@bignews1.bellsouth.net>) about 'DANGER:
Charge an american device in Europe', on Wed, 19 Jan 2005:
| Quote: | From experience...you're just wrong. There may be some devices which
will smoke from 60 vs. 50 Hz, but I would guess they are in the distinct
minority.
Do you have some direct experience which supports you contention?
|
US transformers are presumably designed to accommodate some over-voltage
at 60 Hz, e.g. 130 V. If you run such a transformer on half of European
230 V, which may actually be either 110 V or 120 V, depending on
country, you are not hitting it very hard. 130 x 50/60 = 108 V.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk |
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gwhite
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Jan 21, 2005 2:01 am Post subject:
Re: charge an american device in Europe |
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andreas.manoli@gmail.com wrote:
| Quote: |
Hi,
I live in Europe where the electricity is 240V and 50HZ
I just bought a (WAHL) hair trimmer from the USA. The battery charger
for the hair trimmer is made for USA (input 120VAC, 60HZ, 5W) and has
output 2.0V DC and 1100mA.
Obviously I cannot use this charger here. I think that there are two
ways to charge my trimmer:
a) Buy a variable transformer and replace it (Local shops sell
variable transformers with output 1.5 or 3V and 1000mA ). I called a
shop and they said that with less mA it will just take longer to charge
and it does not matter if the voltage is 1.5 or 3 .He said that the
trimmer's original transformer output shouldn't be exactly 2V anyway.
b) Buy a transformer for the transformer! (transform 240V AC to 120V
AC) . The issue here is bulk, overheating and different frequencies.
The questions are:
1) Is it possible I damage the trimmer's battery or circuitry or motor
by feeding it with 1.5 or 3V instead of 2V?
2) Would I damage anything by feeding with 1000mA instead of 1100mA?
3) Would I damage anything by feeding with 50HZ instead of 60Hz?
4) For option b, the one transformer will sit on top of the other. Are
there any overheating issues here? If I am to use option b, should the
2 transformers be separated by cable so they do not touch each other?
5) Which option would you recommend, a or b ?
|
Often the transformer works for either 120 or 240; it is simply a matter of how
the wires/terminals are connected. (Then the manufacturer only has to stock one
type of transformer for both the US and Europe.) So you might want to look at
it. You may be able to simply rewire and replace the plug. I've done the
reverse--taken euro stuff and rewire the transformer for the US and re-plugged
it. No problems.
What is your time worth? |
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Peter van Merkerk
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Jan 22, 2005 8:24 pm Post subject:
Re: charge an american device in Europe |
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andreas.manoli@gmail.com wrote:
| Quote: | Hi,
I live in Europe where the electricity is 240V and 50HZ
I just bought a (WAHL) hair trimmer from the USA. The battery charger
for the hair trimmer is made for USA (input 120VAC, 60HZ, 5W) and has
output 2.0V DC and 1100mA.
Obviously I cannot use this charger here. I think that there are two
ways to charge my trimmer:
a) Buy a variable transformer and replace it (Local shops sell
variable transformers with output 1.5 or 3V and 1000mA ). I called a
shop and they said that with less mA it will just take longer to charge
and it does not matter if the voltage is 1.5 or 3 .He said that the
trimmer's original transformer output shouldn't be exactly 2V anyway.
b) Buy a transformer for the transformer! (transform 240V AC to 120V
AC) . The issue here is bulk, overheating and different frequencies.
The questions are:
1) Is it possible I damage the trimmer's battery or circuitry or motor
by feeding it with 1.5 or 3V instead of 2V?
|
Feeding it with 3V may harm the trimmer. Feeding it with 1.5V might not
work. Many of those dirt cheap variable adapters are unregulated; when
set to 1.5V the output voltage may be much higher than that, depending
on the load. The is no way of telling how well it will work with out
knowing technical constuction details of the trimmer and the adapter. In
other words: your milleage may vary.
| Quote: | 2) Would I damage anything by feeding with 1000mA instead of 1100mA?
|
You are not feeding it 1000mA. The trimmer draws 1100mA which is more
than the adapter can provide (1000mA). This in turn may overheat and/or
damage the adapter.
| Quote: | 3) Would I damage anything by feeding with 50HZ instead of 60Hz?
|
If you go for option a the line frequency does not matter since the
adapter will rectify the current before it gets to the trimmer.
If you go for option b the original transformer could get saturated due
to the lower frequency, though probably it will work.
| Quote: | 4) For option b, the one transformer will sit on top of the other. Are
there any overheating issues here? If I am to use option b, should the
2 transformers be separated by cable so they do not touch each other?
5) Which option would you recommend, a or b ?
|
Buy a trimmer in Europe, it is probably the cheapest and best solution.
--
Peter van Merkerk
peter.van.merkerk(at)dse.nl |
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