| Author |
Message |
John Woodgate
Guest
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 Posted:
Mon Jan 03, 2005 1:34 pm Post subject:
Re: Colony ship to Alpha Centauri - The Motion Picture Conce |
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I read in sci.electronics.design that J. F. Cornwall <JCornwall@cox.net>
wrote (in <HG1Cd.32258$F25.20907@okepread07>) about 'Colony ship to
Alpha Centauri - The Motion Picture Concept by A. Ahad', on Sun, 2 Jan
2005:
| Quote: | Nah, it was a successful experiment that pointed out a lot of
technologies that did not work as intended. Negative results are as
important as positive ones.
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Even more. Positive results are just confirmation. Negative results are
doorways to new knowledge.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk
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Svein Ove Aas
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Jan 03, 2005 6:13 pm Post subject:
Re: Colony ship to Alpha Centauri - The Motion Picture Conce |
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start quoting John Woodgate :
| Quote: | I read in sci.electronics.design that Jim Thompson
thegreatone@example.com> wrote (in <k9rgt0pn6abgccogl3pibuff0ccsa8c5nd@
4ax.com>) about 'Colony ship to Alpha Centauri - The Motion Picture
Concept by A. Ahad', on Sun, 2 Jan 2005:
IIRC, Tucson's Biosphere 2 Human Greenhouse was a flop.
But that was only the second prototype. If such projects are continued,
they will work after a while.
|
IIRC, one of the reasons it flopped was because curing concrete sucked up a
number of useful gases (like, say, oxygen?).
That's one thing we'll know not to do again; iterate until done. |
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John Woodgate
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Jan 03, 2005 7:06 pm Post subject:
Re: Colony ship to Alpha Centauri - The Motion Picture Conce |
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I read in sci.electronics.design that Svein Ove Aas <svein.ove@aas.no>
wrote (in <crbcs7$9tq$1@services.kq.no>) about 'Colony ship to Alpha
Centauri - The Motion Picture Concept by A. Ahad', on Mon, 3 Jan 2005:
| Quote: | start quoting John Woodgate :
I read in sci.electronics.design that Jim Thompson
thegreatone@example.com> wrote (in <k9rgt0pn6abgccogl3pibuff0ccsa8c5nd@
4ax.com>) about 'Colony ship to Alpha Centauri - The Motion Picture
Concept by A. Ahad', on Sun, 2 Jan 2005:
IIRC, Tucson's Biosphere 2 Human Greenhouse was a flop.
But that was only the second prototype. If such projects are continued,
they will work after a while.
IIRC, one of the reasons it flopped was because curing concrete sucked up a
number of useful gases (like, say, oxygen?).
That's one thing we'll know not to do again; iterate until done.
|
I suppose some oxygen could be absorbed by rusting reinforcing wires.
Concrete also evolves carbon dioxide very slowly, as carbonates are
converted to complex silicates. To what extent it absorbs carbon dioxide
in the initial setting process, I find conflicting reports.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk
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Frithiof Andreas Jensen
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Jan 03, 2005 8:42 pm Post subject:
Re: Colony ship to Alpha Centauri - The Motion Picture Conce |
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"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
news:k9rgt0pn6abgccogl3pibuff0ccsa8c5nd@4ax.com...
| Quote: | IIRC, Tucson's Biosphere 2 Human Greenhouse was a flop.
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No, I was an experiment; Lessons were learned - mainly that building a
running eco-system is harder than previously thought (and that living things
have their own agenda's)! |
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Jim Thompson
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Jan 03, 2005 8:52 pm Post subject:
Re: Colony ship to Alpha Centauri - The Motion Picture Conce |
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On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 15:42:41 +0100, "Frithiof Andreas Jensen"
<frithiof.jensen@die_spammer_die.ericsson.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
news:k9rgt0pn6abgccogl3pibuff0ccsa8c5nd@4ax.com...
IIRC, Tucson's Biosphere 2 Human Greenhouse was a flop.
No, It was an experiment; Lessons were learned - mainly that building a
running eco-system is harder than previously thought (and that living things
have their own agenda's)!
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And the structure leaked. And the "experimenters" came and went,
against the rules, contaminating the green house contents.
It's now a tourist trap :-(
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food. |
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Paul F. Dietz
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Jan 03, 2005 8:59 pm Post subject:
Re: Colony ship to Alpha Centauri - The Motion Picture Conce |
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Frithiof Andreas Jensen wrote:
| Quote: | No, I was an experiment; Lessons were learned - mainly that building a
running eco-system is harder than previously thought (and that living things
have their own agenda's)!
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And that refusing to listen to experts who point out that
fresh concrete absorbs CO2 is probably a bad idea.
The failure of Biosphere 2 was predicted, and the reasons for
its failure were predicted. It was just a bad design.
Paul |
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Spehro Pefhany
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:44 pm Post subject:
Re: Colony ship to Alpha Centauri - The Motion Picture Conce |
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On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 15:42:41 +0100, the renowned "Frithiof Andreas
Jensen" <frithiof.jensen@die_spammer_die.ericsson.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
news:k9rgt0pn6abgccogl3pibuff0ccsa8c5nd@4ax.com...
IIRC, Tucson's Biosphere 2 Human Greenhouse was a flop.
No, I was an experiment; Lessons were learned - mainly that building a
running eco-system is harder than previously thought (and that living things
have their own agenda's)!
|
I think it was set up from the beginning to make money as a tourist
attraction. I recall lots of billboards along the freeway from Tucson
to Phoenix. Can you do serious science like that? Maybe.
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com |
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Dreamer
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:55 pm Post subject:
Re: Colony ship to Alpha Centauri - The Motion Picture Conce |
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Kryten wrote:
| Quote: | "Dreamer" <javidhussain@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1104663271.364433.314240@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
"First Ark to Alpha Centauri" - [A motion picture screenplay by A.
Ahad]
Call me mister boring if you will, but if humanity did manage to make
such
an ark with 100% recycling and 45,000 years of fuel and life support,
then
do they really even need to launch it?
|
No, no. There's some comet and Oort cloud icy resource mining going on.
Read Chapter 6. Mining on an ice world by the illumination of pure
"star light"
The "tank" needs replenishing along the way. Also, its a _huge_ tank,
six miles in radius and nine miles in length, enough to have a
minitaure ecosystem and a small town inside with river, lakes and
forests. More on AA's FAQs:-
http://uk.geocities.com/aa_spaceagent/fiction/FAQ.html
| Quote: |
I mean, you could just park it somewhere and get in it. That amount
of time
is long enough to sit out some naturally-occurring ice ages, which
are
massive climate swings compared with a greenhouse blip.
So you just sit inside, without worrying about meteorite impacts and
gravity
generation etc.
|
Ah, but even though all spaceflight in our solar system is exciting,
there is no life anywhere except on earth. All the NASA probe looking
on Mars, Cassini mission to Titan, future Europa probes, etc. to what
end? All lifeless chemical worlds. The nearest habitable place is "New
Earth" in the Alpha Cen system as in this story.
Ahad's spirit is already gone there.
| Quote: |
Also, photosynthesis is very inefficient (c. 0.02%?) so they'd have
to be
replaced by a more efficient CO2 to O2 processor.
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There is recycling drivers with vents and purification of air to fill
the gap in the natural process. |
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Rich Grise
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Jan 03, 2005 10:53 pm Post subject:
Re: Colony ship to Alpha Centauri - The Motion Picture Conce |
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On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 13:13:05 +0100, Svein Ove Aas wrote:
| Quote: | start quoting John Woodgate :
I read in sci.electronics.design that Jim Thompson
thegreatone@example.com> wrote (in <k9rgt0pn6abgccogl3pibuff0ccsa8c5nd@
4ax.com>) about 'Colony ship to Alpha Centauri - The Motion Picture
Concept by A. Ahad', on Sun, 2 Jan 2005:
IIRC, Tucson's Biosphere 2 Human Greenhouse was a flop.
But that was only the second prototype. If such projects are continued,
they will work after a while.
IIRC, one of the reasons it flopped was because curing concrete sucked up a
number of useful gases (like, say, oxygen?).
That's one thing we'll know not to do again; iterate until done.
|
In other words, it's not a good idea to build interstellar ships out of
concrete?
;-)
Rich |
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Earl
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Jan 03, 2005 11:44 pm Post subject:
Re: Colony ship to Alpha Centauri - The Motion Picture Conce |
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"Dreamer" <javidhussain@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1104767710.113105.102830@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
| Quote: | Kryten wrote:
"Dreamer" <javidhussain@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1104663271.364433.314240@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com..
.
"First Ark to Alpha Centauri" - [A motion picture
screenplay by A. Ahad]
Call me mister boring if you will, but if humanity did
manage to make such an ark with 100% recycling and 45,000
years of fuel and life support, then do they really even
need to launch it?
No, no. There's some comet and Oort cloud icy resource
mining going on. Read Chapter 6. Mining on an ice world by
the illumination of pure "star light"
The "tank" needs replenishing along the way. Also, its a
_huge_ tank, six miles in radius and nine miles in length,
enough to have a minitaure ecosystem and a small town inside
with river, lakes and forests. More on AA's FAQs:-
http://uk.geocities.com/aa_spaceagent/fiction/FAQ.html
|
So after accelerating to a decent velocity they divert to the
Oort Cloud, slow down to add more reaction mass?
Definitely sounds like an academ who skipped freshman physics. |
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Kryten
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:27 am Post subject:
Re: Colony ship to Alpha Centauri - The Motion Picture Conce |
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"Dreamer" <javidhussain@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1104767710.113105.102830@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | No, no. There's some comet and Oort cloud icy resource mining going on.
Read Chapter 6. Mining on an ice world by the illumination of pure
"star light"
The "tank" needs replenishing along the way. Also, its a _huge_ tank,
six miles in radius and nine miles in length, enough to have a
minitaure ecosystem and a small town inside with river, lakes and
forests. More on AA's FAQs:-
|
This Ahad guy is just jerking off, IMHO.
Even for a sci fi movie it is pretty lame.
If you manage to get up the massive speeds, you can't just slow down for a
bit of mining like you were a truck.
And what about human nature?
Humans can't seem to go one lifetime without having at least one major
conflict over.
Most wars are over limited resources, and they're going to be pretty damn
limited there.
Not to mention inbreeding.
Better take a big fridge of sperm and egg samples,
or start playing those banjos now...
| Quote: | Ah, but even though all spaceflight in our solar system is exciting,
there is no life anywhere except on earth. All the NASA probe looking
on Mars, Cassini mission to Titan, future Europa probes, etc. to what
end? All lifeless chemical worlds.
|
That's only looking at one system though.
If the colonists head somewhere that might suit them,
chances are it already suits beings who won't be fobbed off
with a few beads and a dose of smallpox.
| Quote: | The nearest habitable place is "New Earth"
in the Alpha Cen system as in this story.
|
Erm, what makes you think that?
We strain to detect massive gas giants around relatively near stars.
Earth masses are tiny in comparison.
| Quote: | Ahad's spirit is already gone there.
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Along with his common sense? |
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Hop David
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Jan 04, 2005 3:17 am Post subject:
Re: Colony ship to Alpha Centauri - The Motion Picture Conce |
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Spehro Pefhany wrote:
| Quote: | I think it was set up from the beginning to make money as a tourist
attraction. I recall lots of billboards along the freeway from Tucson
to Phoenix. Can you do serious science like that? Maybe.
|
Hopefully entertainment and tourism can finance research. James Cameron
seems to be doing this. Jaques Cousteau comes to mind.
--
Hop David
http://clowder.net/hop/index.html |
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John H
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Jan 04, 2005 3:30 am Post subject:
Re: Colony ship to Alpha Centauri - The Motion Picture Conce |
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"John Woodgate" <jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote in message
news:BtvFNIBzVP2BFwdG@jmwa.demon.co.uk...
| Quote: | I read in sci.electronics.design that J. F. Cornwall <JCornwall@cox.net
wrote (in <HG1Cd.32258$F25.20907@okepread07>) about 'Colony ship to
Alpha Centauri - The Motion Picture Concept by A. Ahad', on Sun, 2 Jan
2005:
Nah, it was a successful experiment that pointed out a lot of
technologies that did not work as intended. Negative results are as
important as positive ones.
Even more. Positive results are just confirmation. Negative results are
doorways to new knowledge.
|
Indeed. It sure would suck to be out of range of Earth to find out your
compost heap is using up more oxygen than expected.
John |
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J. F. Cornwall
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Jan 04, 2005 3:59 am Post subject:
Re: Colony ship to Alpha Centauri - The Motion Picture Conce |
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John Woodgate wrote:
| Quote: | I read in sci.electronics.design that J. F. Cornwall <JCornwall@cox.net
wrote (in <HG1Cd.32258$F25.20907@okepread07>) about 'Colony ship to
Alpha Centauri - The Motion Picture Concept by A. Ahad', on Sun, 2 Jan
2005:
Nah, it was a successful experiment that pointed out a lot of
technologies that did not work as intended. Negative results are as
important as positive ones.
Even more. Positive results are just confirmation. Negative results are
doorways to new knowledge.
|
True. I should have gone with my initial thought of "...at least as
important..." :-/
Jim |
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Dreamer
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:04 am Post subject:
Re: Colony ship to Alpha Centauri - The Motion Picture Conce |
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Earl wrote:
| Quote: | "Dreamer" <javidhussain@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1104767710.113105.102830@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
So after accelerating to a decent velocity they divert to the
Oort Cloud, slow down to add more reaction mass?
|
The Oort cloud is circling in a belt all the way round the sun, you
encounter it when travelling out in all directions from our solar
system. |
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