| Author |
Message |
Rich Grise
Guest
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 Posted:
Sat Dec 10, 2005 1:38 am Post subject:
Re: Digital TV quality |
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On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 22:06:13 +0000, Pooh Bear wrote:
| Quote: | Joerg wrote:
Hello Folks,
I just had the 'pleasure' to see digital cable at a neighbors house,
just because the TV happened to be on when we were there. The image was
'pixely' and kind of ok when viewed from the usual distance.
However, the real disappointment came during a car ad. The usual, a
sporty car driven around a race track. There were huge lags in the
movement and the rear of the car was gravely distorted. It looked as if
the data path was choking.
Is this what we are going to get once the analog channels are turned off?
It wasn't an LCD telly was it ? They're pretty crap even on an analogue
signal.
But yes, standards are all being reduced in order to provide us with 500+
channels of shit. Digital radio uses mp3 like compression too.
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So, when they ban analog broadcast TV, and take all the stations down, is
Big Brother going to replace all of us poor folks' TVs with the digital
models? And install cable for us? Or is it just another instance of the
Repugnacrats' "Fuck the working man" attitude?
Thanks,
Rich
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Mark
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Dec 10, 2005 1:38 am Post subject:
Re: Digital TV quality |
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Joerg wrote:
| Quote: | Hello Graham,
It wasn't an LCD telly was it ? They're pretty crap even on an analogue
signal.
No, it was one with the biggest CRT there is. On analog it has a great
picture quality.
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com
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Most network "analog" broadcasts are distributed digitaly over the
broadcast network .... so digital does not HAVE to be bad if enough
bandwidth is used.
Mark |
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Joerg
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Dec 10, 2005 1:38 am Post subject:
Re: Digital TV quality |
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Hello Roger,
| Quote: | ... I'd suspect first of all that the
original poster, is using the analog out on the DVD, at UHF, rather than
RGB signalling. I'd then further suspect that the DVD's output is tuned to
a frequency that is perhaps getting interference from channel 5 (a common
effect). ...
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This wasn't DVD, it was the signal coming off the cable company's box.
Since those neighbors aren't technically inclined I believe it wasa
installed professionally.
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com
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Joerg
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Dec 10, 2005 1:38 am Post subject:
Re: Digital TV quality |
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Hello Jim,
| Quote: | I'm just an "Expanded Basic" cable user, so I have no set-top boxes...
which I totally despise.
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Cable w/o box? Meaning non-scrambled distribution? How do they prevent
'eavesdroppers'?
| Quote: | Tell me, Joerg, I'm guessing that digital cable is going to require
set-top boxes? Or will there be TV sets that can handle it directly?
|
AFAIK it does. Supposedly there are also TV sets that can receive
digital. But the only ones I have seen in the stores are "HDTV heady"
and I guess you'd have to hope that the modules for that will indeed
become available at resonable cost. I wouldn't buy.
| Quote: | Will analog booster amplifiers (Channel Plus now in use here)
distribute the signals? Or will new equipment be needed for this
function as well?
|
No idea, I never had cable or satellite. But I guess usually the deal is
you get the box for free and in return they'll want you to sign a
contract, to make sure you can't dump the service soon after that.
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com |
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Joerg
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Dec 10, 2005 1:38 am Post subject:
Re: Digital TV quality |
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Hello Graham,
| Quote: | It wasn't an LCD telly was it ? They're pretty crap even on an analogue
signal.
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No, it was one with the biggest CRT there is. On analog it has a great
picture quality.
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com |
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Jim Thompson
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Dec 10, 2005 1:38 am Post subject:
Re: Digital TV quality |
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On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 23:45:53 GMT, Joerg
<notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:
| Quote: | Hello Jim,
I'm just an "Expanded Basic" cable user, so I have no set-top boxes...
which I totally despise.
Cable w/o box? Meaning non-scrambled distribution? How do they prevent
'eavesdroppers'?
|
All the "basic" channels are NOT encoded, but the "pay" channels are.
However there's never been anything I would pay to see ;-)
| Quote: |
Tell me, Joerg, I'm guessing that digital cable is going to require
set-top boxes? Or will there be TV sets that can handle it directly?
AFAIK it does. Supposedly there are also TV sets that can receive
digital. But the only ones I have seen in the stores are "HDTV heady"
and I guess you'd have to hope that the modules for that will indeed
become available at resonable cost. I wouldn't buy.
Will analog booster amplifiers (Channel Plus now in use here)
distribute the signals? Or will new equipment be needed for this
function as well?
No idea, I never had cable or satellite. But I guess usually the deal is
you get the box for free and in return they'll want you to sign a
contract, to make sure you can't dump the service soon after that.
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com
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Of course. I guess it's time to buy more DVD's ;-)
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food. |
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Tam/WB2TT
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Dec 10, 2005 1:39 am Post subject:
Re: Digital TV quality |
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"john jardine" <john@jjdesigns.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:dnc2qh$av3$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
| Quote: | Couldn't rent VHS videos any more, so 6 months ago had to buy a DVD
player.
Found DVD picture quality is even poorer than a VHS tape, yet the DVD
industry tells me their picture quality is better!.
|
There is something really wrong with how you have things hooked up. DVD will
give a picture about twice as sharp as VHS. See if the TV at least has a S
Video input. If so, use that.
Tam |
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Martin Riddle
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Dec 10, 2005 1:39 am Post subject:
Re: Digital TV quality |
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Most HDTV on-air channels operate in the UHF spectrum. So if the amplifier is rated for UHF then your ok. Technically ;D
Supposedly there will be converter boxes available, and/or new HD TV's will have a tuner built in, but I have yet to see any. They
might be waiting for the next generation of Mpeg decoders or dsp's to drop into their designs.
Cheers
"Jim Thompson" <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@My-Web-Site.com> wrote in message news:fi6jp1hj11c6221midd7idna2i9pia3pr9@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 05:12:53 GMT, Joerg
notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:
Hello Folks,
I just had the 'pleasure' to see digital cable at a neighbors house,
just because the TV happened to be on when we were there. The image was
'pixely' and kind of ok when viewed from the usual distance.
However, the real disappointment came during a car ad. The usual, a
sporty car driven around a race track. There were huge lags in the
movement and the rear of the car was gravely distorted. It looked as if
the data path was choking.
Is this what we are going to get once the analog channels are turned off?
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com
I'm just an "Expanded Basic" cable user, so I have no set-top boxes...
which I totally despise.
Tell me, Joerg, I'm guessing that digital cable is going to require
set-top boxes? Or will there be TV sets that can handle it directly?
Will analog booster amplifiers (Channel Plus now in use here)
distribute the signals? Or will new equipment be needed for this
function as well?
(Before anyone jumps on my case... except for the TV set in my office,
which I bought on 9/11, I don't own a TV set newer than 12 years old,
and there are 6 sets in the house... I'm not a big follower of
state-of-the-art consumer electronics... but I like old movies on DVD
:-)
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food. |
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Pooh Bear
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Dec 10, 2005 8:53 am Post subject:
Re: Digital TV quality |
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Rich Grise wrote:
| Quote: | On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 22:06:13 +0000, Pooh Bear wrote:
Joerg wrote:
Hello Folks,
I just had the 'pleasure' to see digital cable at a neighbors house,
just because the TV happened to be on when we were there. The image was
'pixely' and kind of ok when viewed from the usual distance.
However, the real disappointment came during a car ad. The usual, a
sporty car driven around a race track. There were huge lags in the
movement and the rear of the car was gravely distorted. It looked as if
the data path was choking.
Is this what we are going to get once the analog channels are turned off?
It wasn't an LCD telly was it ? They're pretty crap even on an analogue
signal.
But yes, standards are all being reduced in order to provide us with 500+
channels of shit. Digital radio uses mp3 like compression too.
So, when they ban analog broadcast TV, and take all the stations down, is
Big Brother going to replace all of us poor folks' TVs with the digital
models? And install cable for us? Or is it just another instance of the
Repugnacrats' "Fuck the working man" attitude?
|
Well you can't blame the Reps for it here but the concept is much the same.
The crazy thing is that you're expect to use STBs. Now how are you going to be
able to record off air when the video can't change the channel on the STB. Just
try and get a video recorder ( that'll be DVD now of course ) with a digital
tuner - just try.
It's been very badly thought out all round. Even if you can get an integrated
digital tuner do you put the satellite / cable card that unlocks the channels in
the TV or the video ? Just imagine the mess with cables too. It's not like it
isn't bad enough already.
At least when the UK changed over from VHF 405 line TV to UHF 625 line in the
60s all the TVs were made to be 'dual standard' in the changeover period.
Graham |
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Pooh Bear
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Dec 10, 2005 8:53 am Post subject:
Re: Digital TV quality |
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|
Mark wrote:
| Quote: | Joerg wrote:
Hello Graham,
It wasn't an LCD telly was it ? They're pretty crap even on an analogue
signal.
No, it was one with the biggest CRT there is. On analog it has a great
picture quality.
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com
Most network "analog" broadcasts are distributed digitaly over the
broadcast network .... so digital does not HAVE to be bad if enough
bandwidth is used.
|
I'll bet those network connections don't compress the signal so much.
Graham |
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Paul Hovnanian P.E.
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Dec 10, 2005 9:35 am Post subject:
Re: Digital TV quality |
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Joerg wrote:
| Quote: |
Hello Folks,
I just had the 'pleasure' to see digital cable at a neighbors house,
just because the TV happened to be on when we were there. The image was
'pixely' and kind of ok when viewed from the usual distance.
|
What brand of STB was used? What brand of TV?
| Quote: | However, the real disappointment came during a car ad. The usual, a
sporty car driven around a race track. There were huge lags in the
movement and the rear of the car was gravely distorted. It looked as if
the data path was choking.
|
There is one outfit in my area (who shall remain nameless, but is well
known for sticking their nose into every corner of the computing and
media world) who has been pushing their own proprietary media format. A
few cable companies have been suckered into using it on their system.
One noteworthy feature of the encoding format is that its codecs have
been implemented in software rather than on dedicated hardware (as many
MPEG codecs have been). As a result, the STB O/S (already noteworthy for
its voracious appetite for resources) must compete with the video
decoding for the CPU. The result looks like the crap you describe.
--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:Paul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
Plaese porrf raed befre postng. |
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Chris Jones
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Dec 10, 2005 5:22 pm Post subject:
Re: Digital TV quality |
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Pooh Bear wrote:
| Quote: |
Rich Grise wrote:
On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 22:06:13 +0000, Pooh Bear wrote:
Joerg wrote:
Hello Folks,
I just had the 'pleasure' to see digital cable at a neighbors house,
just because the TV happened to be on when we were there. The image
was 'pixely' and kind of ok when viewed from the usual distance.
However, the real disappointment came during a car ad. The usual, a
sporty car driven around a race track. There were huge lags in the
movement and the rear of the car was gravely distorted. It looked as
if the data path was choking.
Is this what we are going to get once the analog channels are turned
off?
It wasn't an LCD telly was it ? They're pretty crap even on an analogue
signal.
But yes, standards are all being reduced in order to provide us with
500+ channels of shit. Digital radio uses mp3 like compression too.
So, when they ban analog broadcast TV, and take all the stations down, is
Big Brother going to replace all of us poor folks' TVs with the digital
models? And install cable for us? Or is it just another instance of the
Repugnacrats' "Fuck the working man" attitude?
|
Well advertisements work just as well in low-res, and you can fit more
channels of low-res ads into the spectrum than with high-res.
| Quote: |
Well you can't blame the Reps for it here but the concept is much the
same.
The crazy thing is that you're expect to use STBs. Now how are you going
to be able to record off air when the video can't change the channel on
the STB. Just try and get a video recorder ( that'll be DVD now of course
) with a digital tuner - just try.
It's been very badly thought out all round. Even if you can get an
integrated digital tuner do you put the satellite / cable card that
unlocks the channels in the TV or the video ? Just imagine the mess with
cables too. It's not like it isn't bad enough already.
|
Yes but think of all the money the government will make when they sell off
all of the analogue spectrum to the highest bidder. They got a taste of
that in the 3G spectrum auctions and now they want to sell off any
remaining piece of spectrum they "own", because for one year it will allow
them to balance their budget, and they think we won't figure out that they
have sold off something they will not be able to make another of, and which
was being used by a lot of people to good advantage. The reason we are in
such a hurry is to make sure that the windfall comes before a change of
government.
| Quote: |
At least when the UK changed over from VHF 405 line TV to UHF 625 line in
the 60s all the TVs were made to be 'dual standard' in the changeover
period.
Graham
|
I have just been reading a 1949 Wireless World magazine. The French were
broadcasting 819 line signals from the Eiffel tower back then. It's a pity
they didn't keep it up - so what if there is only enough spectrum for two
or three channels - there aren't enough worthwhile programmes to fill up
one channel.
Chris |
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Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Dec 10, 2005 5:35 pm Post subject:
Re: Digital TV quality |
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Spehro Pefhany wrote:
| Quote: | On 10 Dec 2005 07:42:11 -0800, the renowned langwadt@ieee.org wrote:
James Beck skrev:
In article <pn8mf.24763$BZ5.22600@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>,
notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net says...
Hello Folks,
I just had the 'pleasure' to see digital cable at a neighbors house,
just because the TV happened to be on when we were there. The image was
'pixely' and kind of ok when viewed from the usual distance.
However, the real disappointment came during a car ad. The usual, a
sporty car driven around a race track. There were huge lags in the
movement and the rear of the car was gravely distorted. It looked as if
the data path was choking.
Is this what we are going to get once the analog channels are turned off?
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com
Just because his set, and maybe even the feed, was "digital" the source
material is usually the weak link. I have a 42" HDTV with digital cable
and let me tell you, the Discovery HD Channel is beyond belief. They
use nothing but the best quality source material and I could see the
individual scales on the reef fish during one program. But you know the
old saying GIGO.
Jim
I've heard theres a bit of a panic spreading because some of the pretty
tv and
movies celebs don't look quite as pretty on hdtv ;)
-Lasse
I shudder to think of a HDTV close-up on Conan O'Brien's hideous
pockmarked mug.
Reminds me of those circle-lit magnifying mirrors that some women use,
and they are often in hotels-- they magnify every pore and whisker.
I suppose makeup artists are going to have to upgrade their skills and
materials until they figure out some electronic way to just soft-focus
the actor's faces.
|
lol, reminds me of the old tv-series Moonlighting with Cybill Shepherd
and Bruce Willis
every close up of her was soft focus and light :)
-Lasse |
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Pooh Bear
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Dec 10, 2005 5:35 pm Post subject:
Re: Digital TV quality |
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Chris Jones wrote:
< apologies for snippage to the really interesting content >
| Quote: | Yes but think of all the money the government will make when they sell off
all of the analogue spectrum to the highest bidder.
|
And this of course is *really* what it's all about !
| Quote: | I have just been reading a 1949 Wireless World magazine. The French were
broadcasting 819 line signals from the Eiffel tower back then.
|
Never underestimate the French. Their technical skills are often obscured by the
common obsession with the supposed fantastic German technology but only for
example, in France is 75-80% of the electricity generated by nuclear yet no one
as much a makes a murmur about it and it has operated safely for decades.
They also have trains so fast that they are a serious competitor to jet travel.
Graham |
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Spehro Pefhany
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Dec 10, 2005 5:35 pm Post subject:
Re: Digital TV quality |
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|
On 10 Dec 2005 07:42:11 -0800, the renowned langwadt@ieee.org wrote:
| Quote: |
James Beck skrev:
In article <pn8mf.24763$BZ5.22600@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>,
notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net says...
Hello Folks,
I just had the 'pleasure' to see digital cable at a neighbors house,
just because the TV happened to be on when we were there. The image was
'pixely' and kind of ok when viewed from the usual distance.
However, the real disappointment came during a car ad. The usual, a
sporty car driven around a race track. There were huge lags in the
movement and the rear of the car was gravely distorted. It looked as if
the data path was choking.
Is this what we are going to get once the analog channels are turned off?
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com
Just because his set, and maybe even the feed, was "digital" the source
material is usually the weak link. I have a 42" HDTV with digital cable
and let me tell you, the Discovery HD Channel is beyond belief. They
use nothing but the best quality source material and I could see the
individual scales on the reef fish during one program. But you know the
old saying GIGO.
Jim
I've heard theres a bit of a panic spreading because some of the pretty
tv and
movies celebs don't look quite as pretty on hdtv ;)
-Lasse
|
I shudder to think of a HDTV close-up on Conan O'Brien's hideous
pockmarked mug.
Reminds me of those circle-lit magnifying mirrors that some women use,
and they are often in hotels-- they magnify every pore and whisker.
I suppose makeup artists are going to have to upgrade their skills and
materials until they figure out some electronic way to just soft-focus
the actor's faces.
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com |
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