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Message |
Guest
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 Posted:
Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:27 am Post subject:
Help with a project |
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Hello,
I want to start a new project, but I don't know where to begin. I need
to arrange 360 buttons or switches that can be depressed by a light
weight, around 5g. Then I need to be able to integrate the information
about the current state of each button and output it to a file. Any
ideas for what kind of hardware I would need?
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Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:35 am Post subject:
Re: Help with a project |
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I want to make a go board that can record a game that is played upon
it. If I can make the buttons light up inorder to replay a game that
would be a huge boost.
Kerry |
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Bob Myers
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:35 am Post subject:
Re: Help with a project |
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<Kerry.DonnyClark@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1134070046.571923.153510@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | Hello,
I want to start a new project, but I don't know where to begin. I need
to arrange 360 buttons or switches that can be depressed by a light
weight, around 5g. Then I need to be able to integrate the information
about the current state of each button and output it to a file. Any
ideas for what kind of hardware I would need?
|
Wel, first, you're probably gonna need a whole lot of buttons....
What, exactly, is it you're trying to achieve here?
Bob M.
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Rich Grise
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:35 am Post subject:
Re: Help with a project |
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On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 11:27:26 -0800, Kerry.DonnyClark wrote:
| Quote: | Hello,
I want to start a new project, but I don't know where to begin. I need to
arrange 360 buttons or switches that can be depressed by a light weight,
around 5g. Then I need to be able to integrate the information about the
current state of each button and output it to a file. Any ideas for what
kind of hardware I would need?
|
Well, 360 buttons and someplace to put them, for a start. ;-) The electronics
won't be hard at all: 23 line drivers and 16 input bits, and scan them. Maybe
360 diodes, just so you don't short your line drivers to each other in a
"rollover" condition.
The line drivers can be decoded from 5 bits of output port, or you could
use a high-pin-count micro, and just use I/O pins.
What are you trying to accomplish?
Good Luck!
Rich |
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Woody Brison
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:35 am Post subject:
Re: Help with a project |
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|
Kerry.DonnyClark@gmail.com wrote:
| Quote: | I want to make a go board that can record a game that is played upon
it. If I can make the buttons light up inorder to replay a game that
would be a huge boost.
|
I'd suggest locating a used electronics store. Junk electronics
often includes old keyboards (and some not so old...) from which
lots of switches can be had for cheap.
Another place to check is electronics parts suppliers... catalogs,
online, &c. Can buy buttons with switches & caps in bulk - that
way you get units that are all alike
Gots to figure a way to mount the buttons. This depends on what
you find in step 1, when you've got them in hand then you can work
on this... maybe as simple as a piece of wood or fiberboard or
aluminum sheet and drill 360 holes in it, into which you snap your
switch bodies
Remember if you turn a sheet of anything into a lace card by drilling
360 holes thru it, it'll wobble, will need reinforcing ribs or
standoffs
Then on the back you can solder wires/components to the contacts
A frame around the board, amenities like that always cheer up
professors immeasurably It's like you care and all
Then you're going to need a processor - a personal computer? a
built in unit like a 8051 or something you can develop a program
for? If it can actually play the game that'll drop some jaws
Be sure to evaluate the need and the enthusiasm and the determination
These things tend to drag out past estimates... usual rule of thumb
is to double your estimate, but lately we've been seeing this needs to
be doubled again. Maybe space time is warping or something
If you can find a really enthusiastic lab partner it's a plus... one
who
will sit up nights rewiring while you do the snoring <<<<<<< thinking
A thing to keep in mind is... have an alternate project in mind, like
'building a vocano with ammonium nitrate and diesel fuel' or something
like that
Wood |
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Richard
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Dec 09, 2005 7:42 am Post subject:
Re: Help with a project |
|
|
<Kerry.DonnyClark@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1134070046.571923.153510@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | Hello,
I want to start a new project, but I don't know where to begin. I need
to arrange 360 buttons or switches that can be depressed by a light
weight, around 5g. Then I need to be able to integrate the information
about the current state of each button and output it to a file. Any
ideas for what kind of hardware I would need?
|
I don't recall the size of the matrix, but how about one of those old
electronic Battleship games? May be able to pick one up at a yard sale for
cheap.
Richard Seriani |
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Andy Baxter
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:35 pm Post subject:
Re: Help with a project |
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|
Kerry.DonnyClark said:
| Quote: | I want to make a go board that can record a game that is played upon
it. If I can make the buttons light up inorder to replay a game that
would be a huge boost.
|
You could do it by having a board with a round hole at the bottom of each
square, and a photodetector underneath it, so when the piece was in place
it blocked out the light and the detector registers it. This would mean
more electronics though.
--
http://www.niftybits.ukfsn.org/
remove 'n-u-l-l' to email me. html mail or attachments will go in the spam
bin unless notified with [html] or [attachment] in the subject line. |
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Jasen Betts
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:35 pm Post subject:
Re: Help with a project |
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|
On 2005-12-08, Kerry.DonnyClark@gmail.com <Kerry.DonnyClark@gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Hello,
I want to start a new project, but I don't know where to begin. I need
to arrange 360 buttons or switches that can be depressed by a light
weight, around 5g. Then I need to be able to integrate the information
about the current state of each button and output it to a file. Any
ideas for what kind of hardware I would need?
|
4 second-hand pc's with 104-key keyboards, a LAN, and some software :)
what sort of time and spacial resolution do you need?
Bye.
Jasen |
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Andy Baxter
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:35 pm Post subject:
Re: Help with a project |
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|
Andy Baxter said:
| Quote: | Kerry.DonnyClark said:
I want to make a go board that can record a game that is played upon
it. If I can make the buttons light up inorder to replay a game that
would be a huge boost.
You could do it by having a board with a round hole at the bottom of each
square, and a photodetector underneath it, so when the piece was in place
it blocked out the light and the detector registers it. This would mean
more electronics though.
|
Sorry, forget that - it wouldn't distinguish between white and black
pieces
--
http://www.niftybits.ukfsn.org/
remove 'n-u-l-l' to email me. html mail or attachments will go in the spam
bin unless notified with [html] or [attachment] in the subject line. |
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Jasen Betts
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:35 pm Post subject:
Re: Help with a project |
|
|
On 2005-12-09, Richard <richard_s633@cox.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
Kerry.DonnyClark@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1134070046.571923.153510@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Hello,
I want to start a new project, but I don't know where to begin. I need
to arrange 360 buttons or switches that can be depressed by a light
weight, around 5g. Then I need to be able to integrate the information
about the current state of each button and output it to a file. Any
ideas for what kind of hardware I would need?
I don't recall the size of the matrix, but how about one of those old
electronic Battleship games? May be able to pick one up at a yard sale for
cheap.
|
only 10x10 or so and it wasn't electrified
X and Y were input in sequence using buttons disguised as sliders.
--
Bye.
Jasen |
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Bob Myers
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Dec 10, 2005 1:14 am Post subject:
Re: Help with a project |
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<Kerry.DonnyClark@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1134081773.858957.90770@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | I want to make a go board that can record a game that is played upon
it. If I can make the buttons light up inorder to replay a game that
would be a huge boost.
|
In that case, just having switches isn't going to cut it for you
- you will also need some way to distinguish the black/white
pieces. This sounds like far more trouble than it's going to be
worth, vs. just writing yourself a "Go-recording" program and
playing the game on a PC screen.
Unless you're going to be willing to get into some somewhat
sophisticated photosensors, with light sources, you won't
be able to use the color of the pieces as the distinguishing
feature - perhaps you might be able to make the pieces
different shapes, with an additional switch triggered by, say,
the black piece that ISN'T triggered by the white. But
again, this just seems like a massive amount of work for
little return.
Bob M.
Bob M. |
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Rich Grise
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Dec 10, 2005 1:35 am Post subject:
Re: Help with a project |
|
|
On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 14:42:53 -0800, Kerry.DonnyClark wrote:
| Quote: | I want to make a go board that can record a game that is played upon
it. If I can make the buttons light up inorder to replay a game that
would be a huge boost.
|
For a GO board, you'll need 361 switches (or whatever). 19X19 should
be trivial to scan[1]; it appears that the sticking point is on the
switches themselves.
Just put 361 little depressions on the board, each of which holds a
stone, and each of which has two bare metal contacts, and make your
stones of steel and brass. ;-)
Or two photodiodes, with different spectral responses, and stones made
of material that's a narrow-band filter at the wavelength of one or the
other. ;-)
Good Luck!
Rich
[1] well, trivial for a guy who's been programming microprocessors for
a few years. ;-) |
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k wallace
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Dec 10, 2005 1:35 am Post subject:
Re: Help with a project |
|
|
Woody Brison wrote:
| Quote: | Kerry.DonnyClark@gmail.com wrote:
I want to make a go board that can record a game that is played upon
it. If I can make the buttons light up inorder to replay a game that
would be a huge boost.
I'd suggest locating a used electronics store. Junk electronics
often includes old keyboards (and some not so old...) from which
lots of switches can be had for cheap.
Another place to check is electronics parts suppliers... catalogs,
online, &c. Can buy buttons with switches & caps in bulk - that
way you get units that are all alike
Gots to figure a way to mount the buttons. This depends on what
you find in step 1, when you've got them in hand then you can work
on this... maybe as simple as a piece of wood or fiberboard or
aluminum sheet and drill 360 holes in it, into which you snap your
switch bodies
Remember if you turn a sheet of anything into a lace card by drilling
360 holes thru it, it'll wobble, will need reinforcing ribs or
standoffs
Then on the back you can solder wires/components to the contacts
A frame around the board, amenities like that always cheer up
professors immeasurably It's like you care and all
Then you're going to need a processor - a personal computer? a
built in unit like a 8051 or something you can develop a program
for? If it can actually play the game that'll drop some jaws
Be sure to evaluate the need and the enthusiasm and the determination
These things tend to drag out past estimates... usual rule of thumb
is to double your estimate, but lately we've been seeing this needs to
be doubled again.
|
interject....
at LEAST doubled. I have recently done my first project that integrated
EE stuff with my usual ME projects...and developing and running
optimization code (it's a thermal dissipation from a small volume of an
IC generating 5W) for the thermal management took 4 times longer than
our original estimate...with a 36 hour long no-stop push at the deadline.
i have just recently woken up from about an 18 hour nap :)
but the project's done.
strange, my mechanical projects usually run over cost by 2x and over
time by 1.5x..but this went far over that.
Of course, if I'd had more experience going into it with the electronic
end of things it may not have taken 4X the estimate...but I was lead on
this and we were 3 ME's working on a project with a large electrical
engineering component.
Tells me i need to brush up on my electrical theory, pretty much.
regards,
Karinne
Maybe space time is warping or something
| Quote: |
If you can find a really enthusiastic lab partner it's a plus... one
who
will sit up nights rewiring while you do the snoring <<<<<<< thinking
A thing to keep in mind is... have an alternate project in mind, like
'building a vocano with ammonium nitrate and diesel fuel' or something
like that
Wood
|
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Kerry
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Dec 11, 2005 9:35 am Post subject:
Re: Help with a project |
|
|
Thanks for all the advice. The order that stones are played in tells me
the color, ie black must play first. There is a problem if the players
are of different rank, because then black may play several stones
before white begins. I'd like to have a switch that lets me tell the
machine "all these stones are black handicap stones", and then just
turn it off for the last black stone played. Software exists to do all
the things I want and more on a computer, but tournaments are usually
played on real boards, and writing down moves while playing results in
worse play, as games are timed. |
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Jasen Betts
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Dec 11, 2005 9:35 am Post subject:
Re: Help with a project |
|
|
On 2005-12-11, Kerry <Kerry.DonnyClark@gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Thanks for all the advice. The order that stones are played in tells me
the color, ie black must play first. There is a problem if the players
are of different rank, because then black may play several stones
before white begins. I'd like to have a switch that lets me tell the
machine "all these stones are black handicap stones", and then just
turn it off for the last black stone played. Software exists to do all
the things I want and more on a computer, but tournaments are usually
played on real boards, and writing down moves while playing results in
worse play, as games are timed.
|
probably the easist (and cheapest) way to make the switch matrix is to
use a membrane matrix. you could fashion your own unsing that conductive
window tape used for alarms, (or al-foil etc), on polycarbonate (or similar
non-elastic plastic) sheets with mask between the sheets to separate them.
On the down side a setup like this can only reliably detetrmine two
simultaneous contacts between the sheets, so the top sheet would need
to be stiff enough to support the stone without sagging into contact
with the lower sheet, and the playes would have to press their pieces
down when placing them. many computerised chessboards work on a similar
principle.
possilby a double-layer matrix could be used to reduce the pincount
another option would be to mount a "webcam" like device above the board
and use image-processing software to detect the changes. filtering out the
images showing the player's hand.
Bye.
Jasen |
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