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slebetman@yahoo.com
Guest
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 Posted:
Wed Dec 07, 2005 9:35 am Post subject:
Re: why do computer scientists say 1KB=1024 bytes?!! |
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onehappymadman@yahoo.com wrote:
| Quote: | Gregory L. Hansen wrote:
In article <1133922573.855472.297320@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
onehappymadman@yahoo.com> wrote:
What's so special about 2^10 that computer scientists say it's 1k? The
SI system says 1k is 1000. 2^10 is not 1000, it is 1024.
Why not just say 1 KB = 2^9.965784285 bytes (= 1000)? If you're going
to nerd out, then nerd out completely, I say.
1024 is close enough to 1000 for jargon. The meaning is determined from
the context. If you want to sling around a more exact jargon, then use
kibibyte, mebibyte, and gibibyte.
Sure... try saying "the store is 3 kibimeters east of here". Or buying
a 5 kibi-watt generator. How many cents per kibiwatt-hour is it in
your neck of the woods? :)
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Well.. the linux kernel have been re-commented and re-documented using
kibi and Mibi. So there are people using it practically. And the
company I work for is also slowly adopting ki, Mi and Gi since we are
in telecommunications and want to avoid coufusion. In telecoms and
networking, 10 mega bits per second really does mean 10 million state
changes per second, not (approx) 10.485 million. This is mainly because
telecoms have never really cared about the binary number system. We're
all about signal-to-noise ratios.
| Quote: | And don't even get me started on kb (kilobytes) vs kb (kilobits)!
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You'll want to correct that, kb is always kilobits. kB is kilobytes.
Though, sometimes people do forget to press the shift key when they
mean bytes.
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[Mr.] Lynn Kurtz
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Dec 07, 2005 9:35 am Post subject:
Re: why do computer scientists say 1KB=1024 bytes?!! |
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On Wed, 7 Dec 2005 04:04:05 +0000 (UTC),
glhansen@steel.ucs.indiana.edu (Gregory L. Hansen) wrote:
| Quote: | 1024 is close enough to 1000 for jargon. The meaning is determined from
the context. If you want to sling around a more exact jargon, then use
kibibyte, mebibyte, and gibibyte.
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Hey, it isn't just in technical electronics. Ever measured a "2 by 4"?
--Lynn |
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Ralph Wade Phillips
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Dec 07, 2005 9:35 am Post subject:
Re: why do computer scientists say 1KB=1024 bytes?!! |
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Howdy!
<onehappymadman@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1133931290.510746.187120@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | And don't even get me started on kb (kilobytes) vs kb (kilobits)! My
laptop has a USB 1.1 (not 2.0) port, and I'm trying to calculate how
fast I can transfer data. I google it, and discover it can handle 12
mbps! Oh, wait a second, that's megaBITS per second, only 1.5
megaBYTES per second. Geez!
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Because kb or Kb is KiloBITs - KB is KiloBYTES.
And *ahem* /10 to account for the overhead. And don't forget, a
single device can only use a max of 50% of the bandwidth.
It's documented to be actually a bit over 650kilobytes/sec max
transfer for USB 1.1 per device.
| Quote: |
Apparently the 480 mbps USB 2.0 handles only 40 megaBYTES per second.
And what's on the package of all those USB 2.0 PCI cards? You guessed
it... 480 mbps. Not 40 mbps.
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More like 48KBytes/sec. AND - see above.
| Quote: |
I don't see the hard disk vendors bragging about their 800 gb drives!
Oh wait, that's 8 gigaBITs, only 100 gigaBYTEs...
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Be more than 800gbits for 100gigabytes. Sector info, track info, et
al yields more like a 75% to 80% efficiency.
| Quote: |
On the other hand, buy some rechargeable NiMH AA batteries, and the
package says, "2500 mAh"! Sounds impressive. Two thousand five
hundred milli amp hours. I guess 2.5 Ah isn't impressive enough for
the marketing folks...
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Well - if the originals are 800mAH, then why not 2500mAH for the
high powered ones? Same units and all.
RwP
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Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Dec 07, 2005 9:35 am Post subject:
Re: why do computer scientists say 1KB=1024 bytes?!! |
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onehappymad...@yahoo.com wrote:
| Quote: | Apparently the 480 mbps USB 2.0 handles only 40 megaBYTES per second.
And what's on the package of all those USB 2.0 PCI cards? You guessed
it... 480 mbps. Not 40 mbps.
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Correction, USB 2 handles closer to 60 than 40 mBYTES per second.
Divided by 12 for some reason instead of by 8. Senior moment.
And according to this, somewhat less than 60 mBytes/s also...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usb#Transfer_speed |
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Dr Photon
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Dec 07, 2005 3:42 pm Post subject:
Re: why do computer scientists say 1KB=1024 bytes?!! |
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onehappymadman@yahoo.com wrote:
| Quote: | Correction, USB 2 handles closer to 60 than 40 mBYTES per second.
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60 millibytes per second?
Some mistake surely, I don't think it takes just over half a year to
download a 1MB file via USB 2, but then I never estimated the error
bars.
br |
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zzbunker@netscape.net
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Dec 07, 2005 3:58 pm Post subject:
Re: why do computer scientists say 1KB=1024 bytes?!! |
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Pooh Bear wrote:
| Quote: | "[Mr.] Lynn Kurtz" wrote:
On Wed, 7 Dec 2005 04:04:05 +0000 (UTC),
glhansen@steel.ucs.indiana.edu (Gregory L. Hansen) wrote:
1024 is close enough to 1000 for jargon. The meaning is determined from
the context. If you want to sling around a more exact jargon, then use
kibibyte, mebibyte, and gibibyte.
Hey, it isn't just in technical electronics. Ever measured a "2 by 4"?
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Yes, but a byte has nothing to do with 2 by 4 or elecronics.
It;s just that after 100 years of Relativity idiot crap, science
is so corrupted
by moronic pork barrel politics that the idiots
in physics now have to call Capt Kirk on The NASA
Rodeo Drive Mel Gibson sub-either tard channel rather than
the regular channels.
| Quote: |
2 x 4 is the 'unplaned size' btw.
Graham |
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Pooh Bear
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:11 pm Post subject:
Re: why do computer scientists say 1KB=1024 bytes?!! |
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"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:
| Quote: | "[Mr.] Lynn Kurtz" wrote:
On Wed, 7 Dec 2005 04:04:05 +0000 (UTC),
glhansen@steel.ucs.indiana.edu (Gregory L. Hansen) wrote:
1024 is close enough to 1000 for jargon. The meaning is determined from
the context. If you want to sling around a more exact jargon, then use
kibibyte, mebibyte, and gibibyte.
Hey, it isn't just in technical electronics. Ever measured a "2 by 4"?
--Lynn
Yes, but then I've seen a real 2" * 4". Today they are using the
same code as "Quarter Pounder" (Weight before cooking) The lumber is
cut to 2" * 4" then planed down 1/4" on all four sides leaving 1.5" *
3.5". Have you ever seen 14" * 14" hand hewn oak beams used as the
corner posts in the corners of a house? A house I had in Ohio was built
with them. A 6" * 6" notch was cut into the inside corner, and the studs
were hand hewn 2" * 6" oak. they were over 100 years old and you
couldn't drive a nail into them. I had to drill pilot holes for drywall
screws when I replaced the damaged wood lath & horse hair plastered
walls with 4' * 12' sheets of drywall.
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Those were the days ! ;-)
My own house is for most part made of 9" thick classic solid brick wall.
Victorian style. The timbers are pretty decent too.
Graham |
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Pooh Bear
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:19 pm Post subject:
Re: why do computer scientists say 1KB=1024 bytes?!! |
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Deefoo wrote:
| Quote: | onehappymadman@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1133922573.855472.297320@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
What's so special about 2^10 that computer scientists say it's 1k? The
SI system says 1k is 1000. 2^10 is not 1000, it is 1024.
Why not just say 1 KB = 2^9.965784285 bytes (= 1000)? If you're going
to nerd out, then nerd out completely, I say.
I've always been told that kilobytes is with a "K", a "k" meaning simply
1000 as in SI. This was before megabytes became common, though.
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k = 1000
K = degrees Kelvin ( absolute temperature)
The 'rules' for prefixes and suffixes are quite simple really aside from a
few exceptions.
'Multipliers' are upper case like M = mega, G = giga ( except for k = kilo -
conflict with K = Kelvin )
'Divisors' are *always* lower case like m = milli , n= nano, p = pico
Units of measurement are always upper case except for a few historic
exceptions.
Exceptions are m ( metres ) g ( grams ) and s ( seconds ) from the original
old metric cgs system.
So a kilogram is kg not KG
Graham |
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Pooh Bear
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:20 pm Post subject:
Re: why do computer scientists say 1KB=1024 bytes?!! |
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Eric Gisse wrote:
| Quote: | Pooh Bear wrote:
Eric Gisse wrote:
Gregory L. Hansen wrote:
In article <1133922573.855472.297320@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
onehappymadman@yahoo.com> wrote:
What's so special about 2^10 that computer scientists say it's 1k? The
SI system says 1k is 1000. 2^10 is not 1000, it is 1024.
Why not just say 1 KB = 2^9.965784285 bytes (= 1000)? If you're going
to nerd out, then nerd out completely, I say.
1024 is close enough to 1000 for jargon. The meaning is determined from
the context. If you want to sling around a more exact jargon, then use
kibibyte, mebibyte, and gibibyte.
It is "close enough" for the marketing assholes too.
My 300 "GB" harddrive manages to have only 270 actual gigs.
It actually has probably 300 *real* decimal gigabytes but only 270 of those
computer Gigs.
Curiously enough, my computer measures things that are defined by
powers of two. However, my data storage seems to come in things that
are defined by powers of ten. I find that odd. Especially because it
isn't even consistant - RAM is sold in actual gigabytes and megabytes
instead of the marketing version of the gigabyte.
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You expect marketing ppl to make sense ?
Graham |
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Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:35 pm Post subject:
Re: why do computer scientists say 1KB=1024 bytes?!! |
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In article <1133929933.977912.103900@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
"Eric Gisse" <jowr.pi@gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
Gregory L. Hansen wrote:
In article <1133922573.855472.297320@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
onehappymadman@yahoo.com> wrote:
What's so special about 2^10 that computer scientists say it's 1k? The
SI system says 1k is 1000. 2^10 is not 1000, it is 1024.
Why not just say 1 KB = 2^9.965784285 bytes (= 1000)? If you're going
to nerd out, then nerd out completely, I say.
1024 is close enough to 1000 for jargon. The meaning is determined from
the context. If you want to sling around a more exact jargon, then use
kibibyte, mebibyte, and gibibyte.
It is "close enough" for the marketing assholes too.
My 300 "GB" harddrive manages to have only 270 actual gigs.
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Do you mean 270GB available for the user? 30GB is a lot of
space that has to be reserved for the OS....hmmm....10%
I can't remember what the ratio is for housekeeping.
Try doing a directory of the hidden files and see how much
they take up. Subtract from 300-270 and that may give
you a very rough guesstimate w.r.t. how much space is
needed to manage the disk geometry. My knowledge is based
on olden days, so new thingies may have been created for
bit managments.
/BAH |
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markp
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:35 pm Post subject:
Re: why do computer scientists say 1KB=1024 bytes?!! |
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<onehappymadman@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1133922573.855472.297320@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | What's so special about 2^10 that computer scientists say it's 1k? The
SI system says 1k is 1000. 2^10 is not 1000, it is 1024.
Why not just say 1 KB = 2^9.965784285 bytes (= 1000)? If you're going
to nerd out, then nerd out completely, I say.
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Actually, the SI scaler is a lower case 'k'. The computerised scaler is an
upper case 'K'. So the question should be why use the SI unit for
temperature as a multiplication scaler? :-) |
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Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:35 pm Post subject:
Re: why do computer scientists say 1KB=1024 bytes?!! |
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In article <1133922573.855472.297320@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
onehappymadman@yahoo.com wrote:
| Quote: | What's so special about 2^10 that computer scientists say it's 1k?
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In my neck of the woods, it was octal.
| Quote: | The
SI system says 1k is 1000. 2^10 is not 1000, it is 1024.
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One of the problems with numbers in the computing biz is that,
if a figure has numbers below 8, you can't tell if it's octal
or decimal. Somehow, in conversations, my guys did these
conversions automatically and, it seemed, instantaneously.
| Quote: |
Why not just say 1 KB = 2^9.965784285 bytes (= 1000)? If you're going
to nerd out, then nerd out completely, I say.
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We didn't have 2^9.96... addressing. We had octal which were
dealt as integers.
If you really want a challenge, learn how computers count
and do addition.
Start with an IBM 1620. It did decimal but with a table lookup.
You can earn good money knowing this stuff.
/BAH |
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Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:35 pm Post subject:
Re: why do computer scientists say 1KB=1024 bytes?!! |
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In article <1133931290.510746.187120@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
onehappymadman@yahoo.com wrote:
| Quote: |
Gregory L. Hansen wrote:
In article <1133922573.855472.297320@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
onehappymadman@yahoo.com> wrote:
What's so special about 2^10 that computer scientists say it's 1k? The
SI system says 1k is 1000. 2^10 is not 1000, it is 1024.
Why not just say 1 KB = 2^9.965784285 bytes (= 1000)? If you're going
to nerd out, then nerd out completely, I say.
1024 is close enough to 1000 for jargon. The meaning is determined from
the context. If you want to sling around a more exact jargon, then use
kibibyte, mebibyte, and gibibyte.
Sure... try saying "the store is 3 kibimeters east of here". Or buying
a 5 kibi-watt generator. How many cents per kibiwatt-hour is it in
your neck of the woods? :)
And don't even get me started on kb (kilobytes) vs kb (kilobits)! My
laptop has a USB 1.1 (not 2.0) port, and I'm trying to calculate how
fast I can transfer data. I google it, and discover it can handle 12
mbps! Oh, wait a second, that's megaBITS per second, only 1.5
megaBYTES per second. Geez!
Apparently the 480 mbps USB 2.0 handles only 40 megaBYTES per second.
And what's on the package of all those USB 2.0 PCI cards? You guessed
it... 480 mbps. Not 40 mbps.
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Comm counting is different.
/BAH
| Quote: |
I don't see the hard disk vendors bragging about their 800 gb drives!
Oh wait, that's 8 gigaBITs, only 100 gigaBYTEs...
On the other hand, buy some rechargeable NiMH AA batteries, and the
package says, "2500 mAh"! Sounds impressive. Two thousand five
hundred milli amp hours. I guess 2.5 Ah isn't impressive enough for
the marketing folks...
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Ben Rudiak-Gould
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:35 pm Post subject:
Re: why do computer scientists say 1KB=1024 bytes?!! |
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Pubkeybreaker wrote:
| Quote: | Eric Gisse wrote:
My 300 "GB" harddrive manages to have only 270 actual gigs.
How do you know that it "only" has 270 actual Gbytes? Is it because the
directory command says that is the amount of free space? [...]
300 Gbytes, I am sure is the *unformatted* size of the disk.
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When specifying hard disk capacities, GB always means 10^9 bytes. A 300GB
hard disk holds about 280 gibibytes. The filesystem does indeed add some
overhead; 10 MiB of overhead for a 280 GiB partition is not unreasonable.
For RAM and ROM (including flash drives), GB means 2^30 bytes. Modem/network
speeds are given in units of 10^n bits per second. A 1.44MB floppy actually
holds exactly 1440 kibibytes, which is about 1.41 mebibytes or 1.47 million
bytes.
Most software programs (including e.g. Windows Explorer) report all sizes in
kiB, MiB and GiB.
-- Ben |
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slebetman@yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:35 pm Post subject:
Re: why do computer scientists say 1KB=1024 bytes?!! |
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Pooh Bear wrote:
| Quote: | Deefoo wrote:
onehappymadman@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1133922573.855472.297320@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
What's so special about 2^10 that computer scientists say it's 1k? The
SI system says 1k is 1000. 2^10 is not 1000, it is 1024.
Why not just say 1 KB = 2^9.965784285 bytes (= 1000)? If you're going
to nerd out, then nerd out completely, I say.
I've always been told that kilobytes is with a "K", a "k" meaning simply
1000 as in SI. This was before megabytes became common, though.
k = 1000
K = degrees Kelvin ( absolute temperature)
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K = 1024
k = 1000
is a convention proposed by Tenenbaum. Never caught on though.
Computer science have given us another exception:
b = bits
B = bytes
Then again, on some very old systems, a byte is not necessarily 8 bits
(though modern systems always assumes this). That's why a lot of older
documentation talked about 'octets'.
Despite criticisms, kiB, MiB, GiB are catching on. I've started seeing
them in tender documents and specifications. |
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