| Author |
Message |
sal
Guest
|
 Posted:
Sun Nov 27, 2005 12:46 am Post subject:
How can I produce hydrogen using electrolysis at 3 psi? tia |
|
|
How can I produce hydrogen using electrolysis at 3 psi? tia sal
Greetings All,
I'm trying to find a way to produce hydrogen at around 3 PSI continually
over time using electrolysis. I'm currently using a Hoffman Apparatus,
Epsom salt, and distilled water with palladium electrodes.
Is this possible? If not can someone suggest another route to take other
than buying a 2000 PSI hydrogen tank.
Thanks
Sal
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Don Lancaster
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Nov 27, 2005 1:21 am Post subject:
Re: How can I produce hydrogen using electrolysis at 3 psi? |
|
|
sal wrote:
| Quote: | How can I produce hydrogen using electrolysis at 3 psi? tia sal
Greetings All,
I'm trying to find a way to produce hydrogen at around 3 PSI continually
over time using electrolysis. I'm currently using a Hoffman Apparatus,
Epsom salt, and distilled water with palladium electrodes.
Is this possible? If not can someone suggest another route to take other
than buying a 2000 PSI hydrogen tank.
Thanks
Sal
|
The energy density of hydrogen at 3 psi remains approximately three watt
hours per liter.
If your ap demands storage, you definitely should NOT be using
electrolysis. Electrolysis is --> only <-- suitable for on-demand
applications where the final value of the hydrogen ridiculously exceeds
its pathetic energy value.
Because of the staggering loss of exergy, use of electrolysis for bulk
hydrogen energy apps from high value electrical sources flat out ain't
gonna happen. Thermodynamic fundamentals GUARANTEE this. Electrolysis is
pretty much the same as 1:1 exchaning US dollars for Mexican Pesos.
What would you do with this besides piss off your local hazmat team?
The last SEH experimenter to try this created that large hole in the map
where Northern Nevada used to be. Their attempt at the X prize was
rejected because their garage apparently failed to go suborbital. They
also just barely missed a Darwin award.
PLEASE READ THE DOT ORANGE BOOK!!!!
If you are serious about hydrogen research for nonenergy apps, you buy
your hydrogen by the bottle at the hydrogen store.
If you are serious about hydrogen research for energy apps, you first
learn why electrolysis is guaranteed to play no role whatsoever.
http://www.tinaja.com/glib/energfun.pdf
http://www.tinaja.com/glib/muse153.pdf
--
Many thanks,
Don Lancaster voice phone: (928)428-4073
Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552
rss: http://www.tinaja.com/whtnu.xml email: don@tinaja.com
Please visit my GURU's LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Nov 27, 2005 1:35 am Post subject:
Re: How can I produce hydrogen using electrolysis at 3 psi? |
|
|
Sure, it's possible to make pressurized hydrogen using electrolysis,
but you certaintly can't do it with the classical Hoffman Apparatus.
Also, for practical applications like a Jewler's torch, Espom salt is
likely not the best possible electrolyte.
Google electrolysis or hydrogen generators to get some better ideas
about what is needed for a practical hydrogen generator.
Harry C.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
~~NoMad~~
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Nov 27, 2005 1:35 am Post subject:
Re: How can I produce hydrogen using electrolysis at 3 psi? |
|
|
I used to make hydrogen to fill lightweight garment bag balloons.
I used aluminum and lye. It made lots of hydrogen easy! No Electrolysis
necessary.
NM
"sal" <sal@spp.net> wrote in message
news:Xns971A8DEFA1B29salsppnet@140.99.99.130...
| Quote: | How can I produce hydrogen using electrolysis at 3 psi? tia sal
Greetings All,
I'm trying to find a way to produce hydrogen at around 3 PSI continually
over time using electrolysis. I'm currently using a Hoffman Apparatus,
Epsom salt, and distilled water with palladium electrodes.
Is this possible? If not can someone suggest another route to take other
than buying a 2000 PSI hydrogen tank.
Thanks
Sal |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Omicron
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Nov 27, 2005 8:21 am Post subject:
Re: How can I produce hydrogen using electrolysis at 3 psi? |
|
|
Hydrogen is being produced in abundance with a Cold Fusion Reactor,
that is simple with the correct Power Supply and Electrodes.
Directions can be found online. I am looking for the correct Power
Suply is why I came to this group. If you have one, or know how to
make the correct Isolation Transformer contact me and we can trade.
I am now here, and dont know how to contact anyone with Email. Maybe
this will work |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fred Kasner
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Nov 27, 2005 8:44 am Post subject:
Re: How can I produce hydrogen using electrolysis at 3 psi? |
|
|
Omicron wrote:
| Quote: | Hydrogen is being produced in abundance with a Cold Fusion Reactor,
that is simple with the correct Power Supply and Electrodes.
Directions can be found online. I am looking for the correct Power
Suply is why I came to this group. If you have one, or know how to
make the correct Isolation Transformer contact me and we can trade.
I am now here, and dont know how to contact anyone with Email. Maybe
this will work
|
Cold fusion????
It is to laugh!
A totally discredited severe error of many years oblivian.
FK |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Don Stauffer
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Nov 27, 2005 11:36 pm Post subject:
Re: How can I produce hydrogen using electrolysis at 3 psi? |
|
|
sal wrote:
| Quote: | How can I produce hydrogen using electrolysis at 3 psi? tia sal
Greetings All,
I'm trying to find a way to produce hydrogen at around 3 PSI continually
over time using electrolysis. I'm currently using a Hoffman Apparatus,
Epsom salt, and distilled water with palladium electrodes.
Is this possible? If not can someone suggest another route to take other
than buying a 2000 PSI hydrogen tank.
Thanks
Sal
You can do it, but at 3psi you'll need a very large tank to store very |
much hydrogen. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Don Lancaster
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Nov 27, 2005 11:46 pm Post subject:
Re: How can I produce hydrogen using electrolysis at 3 psi? |
|
|
Don Stauffer wrote:
| Quote: | sal wrote:
How can I produce hydrogen using electrolysis at 3 psi? tia sal
Greetings All,
I'm trying to find a way to produce hydrogen at around 3 PSI
continually over time using electrolysis. I'm currently using a
Hoffman Apparatus,
Epsom salt, and distilled water with palladium electrodes.
Is this possible? If not can someone suggest another route to take
other than buying a 2000 PSI hydrogen tank.
Thanks
Sal
You can do it, but at 3psi you'll need a very large tank to store very
much hydrogen.
|
At 2000 psi you'll need a very large tank to to store very much hydrogen.
At 20,000 psi you'll need a very large tank to store very much hydrogen.
In fact the 20,000 psi tank will be larger than the 2000 psi one.
No energy dense means of gaseous hydrogen storage is known.
See http://www.tinaja.com/glib/energfun.pdf
--
Many thanks,
Don Lancaster voice phone: (928)428-4073
Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552
rss: http://www.tinaja.com/whtnu.xml email: don@tinaja.com
Please visit my GURU's LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ian Stirling
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 29, 2005 1:36 am Post subject:
Re: How can I produce hydrogen using electrolysis at 3 psi? |
|
|
In sci.chem.electrochem.battery David Harmon <source@netcom.com> wrote:
| Quote: | On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 10:46:34 -0700 in sci.electronics.misc, Don
Lancaster <don@tinaja.com> wrote,
At 2000 psi you'll need a very large tank to to store very much hydrogen.
At 20,000 psi you'll need a very large tank to store very much hydrogen.
In fact the 20,000 psi tank will be larger than the 2000 psi one.
Alright, I'll bite. Why would the 20,000 psi tank be larger?
|
The walls to hold the pressure.
And that's a bit debatable - it's probably not quite that bad.
But.
Look at a pressure-volume plot of hydrogen at room temperature.
Annoyingly, I can't find a link.
Anyway.
From memory and first principles.
At 2000psi, the hydrogen is already not behaving as an ideal gas, but
has got to the realm where if you squeeze it twice as hard, it occupies
more volume than half.
IIRC, this gets really noticable at 3000psi, and at 4000psi, it's
not really compressing much any more. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
David Harmon
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 29, 2005 1:36 am Post subject:
Re: How can I produce hydrogen using electrolysis at 3 psi? |
|
|
On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 10:46:34 -0700 in sci.electronics.misc, Don
Lancaster <don@tinaja.com> wrote,
| Quote: | At 2000 psi you'll need a very large tank to to store very much hydrogen.
At 20,000 psi you'll need a very large tank to store very much hydrogen.
In fact the 20,000 psi tank will be larger than the 2000 psi one.
|
Alright, I'll bite. Why would the 20,000 psi tank be larger? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Don Lancaster
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 29, 2005 7:54 am Post subject:
Re: How can I produce hydrogen using electrolysis at 3 psi? |
|
|
David Harmon wrote:
| Quote: | On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 10:46:34 -0700 in sci.electronics.misc, Don
Lancaster <don@tinaja.com> wrote,
At 2000 psi you'll need a very large tank to to store very much hydrogen.
At 20,000 psi you'll need a very large tank to store very much hydrogen.
In fact the 20,000 psi tank will be larger than the 2000 psi one.
Alright, I'll bite. Why would the 20,000 psi tank be larger?
|
Because of (1) its insane structural engineering and (2) the extra room
for the compressor.
aka the law of diminishing returns.
http://www.tinaja.com/glib/energfun.pdf
--
Many thanks,
Don Lancaster voice phone: (928)428-4073
Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552
rss: http://www.tinaja.com/whtnu.xml email: don@tinaja.com
Please visit my GURU's LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
default
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 29, 2005 5:35 pm Post subject:
Re: How can I produce hydrogen using electrolysis at 3 psi? |
|
|
On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 14:33:34 -0800, "~~NoMad~~" <evad@dodgeit.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | I used to make hydrogen to fill lightweight garment bag balloons.
I used aluminum and lye. It made lots of hydrogen easy! No Electrolysis
necessary.
|
I used to do that too. Built a gallon size generator from a solvent
can and soldered a copper nipple on it and plumbed that through a
water bubbler to cool the gas and put it in large latex balloons.
Sent them up at night with fuses attached. There'd be a dull Whump!
and half the sky would light with a sodium flare.
Some kids in a nearby town are using the lye/foil in plastic pop
bottles. They set them out on lawns in a residential neighborhood at
midnight. The media, police, state investigators are treating it like
a terrorist attack.
As a kid I built rockets and cannons, made gunpowder etc.. No one did
more than complain about the noise, and that was rare.
--
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike McWilliams
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Nov 29, 2005 5:35 pm Post subject:
Re: How can I produce hydrogen using electrolysis at 3 psi? |
|
|
default wrote:
| Quote: | On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 14:33:34 -0800, "~~NoMad~~" <evad@dodgeit.com
wrote:
I used to make hydrogen to fill lightweight garment bag balloons.
I used aluminum and lye. It made lots of hydrogen easy! No Electrolysis
necessary.
I used to do that too. Built a gallon size generator from a solvent
can and soldered a copper nipple on it and plumbed that through a
water bubbler to cool the gas and put it in large latex balloons.
Sent them up at night with fuses attached. There'd be a dull Whump!
and half the sky would light with a sodium flare.
Some kids in a nearby town are using the lye/foil in plastic pop
bottles. They set them out on lawns in a residential neighborhood at
midnight. The media, police, state investigators are treating it like
a terrorist attack.
As a kid I built rockets and cannons, made gunpowder etc.. No one did
more than complain about the noise, and that was rare.
times have changed. I have noticed since about 5 years ago, I can no |
longer find KNO3 in stores. Lye is much harder to come by.
consumer pop-culture is taking fun tools away. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
default
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:35 am Post subject:
Re: How can I produce hydrogen using electrolysis at 3 psi? |
|
|
On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 08:27:04 -0700, Mike McWilliams
<michael.mcwilliamss@drdc-rddc.gc.ca> wrote:
| Quote: | times have changed. I have noticed since about 5 years ago, I can no
longer find KNO3 in stores. Lye is much harder to come by.
I don't remember KNO3 being in plentiful supply when I was young. |
Found a large dusty bottle on a shelf behind the counter in a
pharmacy. I bought it for $2 and it must have held 4-5 pounds of the
stuff.
Pure lye is hard to come by but something like Drano is easy enough to
find. Plenty of sites selling soap making supplies on line.
| Quote: | consumer pop-culture is taking fun tools away.
|
Ain't that the truth.
Much of the scarcity may just be a lack of interest - or the pure
forms of chemicals have been supplanted with brand name, heavily
advertised, mediocre (but safe) crap.
--
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ted Edwards
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Nov 30, 2005 9:20 am Post subject:
Re: How can I produce hydrogen using electrolysis at 3 psi? |
|
|
~~NoMad~~ wrote:
| Quote: | I used to make hydrogen to fill lightweight garment bag balloons.
I used aluminum and lye. It made lots of hydrogen easy! No Electrolysis
necessary.
|
Except to refine the aluminum!
Ted |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
Memberlist
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in