| Author |
Message |
Robert Baer
Guest
|
 Posted:
Sun Dec 04, 2005 9:35 am Post subject:
Re: New query for low cost PCB CAD that *works* |
|
|
Jim wrote:
| Quote: | Here is a PCB program that is board layout ONLY. I have not used it
very much yet., but it looks to be a pretty easy to use program.
It does not have the complicated library problems that an integrated
Schematic/PCB program has, so it is possible to use the same component
footprint for different parts and not have to create a separate library
entry for each part.
http://www.freepcb.com/
Jim Pennell
Do you mean that only *one* footprint is needed without regard to |
which PCB side the SMT is put on?
Or stated differently, can a SMT part be put on either side of a board?
That program may be a welcome "visitor" on my HD!
Thanks; adding it to my list of proggies to test.
**
WOW!
I see that footprints are from Ivex - and i have the Ivex WinBoard,
meaning that (maybe) the footprints inmy created library may work in
FreePCB (!).
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Robert Baer
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Dec 04, 2005 9:35 am Post subject:
Re: New query for low cost PCB CAD that *works* |
|
|
Genome wrote:
| Quote: | "Robert Baer" <robertbaer@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:frckf.3997$Hk1.1932@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
Seems my "try" list is growing...
Got an e-mail response to DipTrace, and ordered a trial CD from them
($9.95).
Got an e-mail response from CadStar with an un-useable password for
their ZIP file which i cannot get (am on POTS).
Oh..... I see from your headers that you are running Windows 98. Crapstar
needs Windows 2000 or better to work.
DNA
I run multiple OSes; Win2K is my OS of choice for "large" and/or |
"fancy" programs.
I have been running all of my testing on Win2K.
Thanks for the info! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JeffM
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:35 am Post subject:
Re: New query for low cost PCB CAD that *works* |
|
|
| Quote: | You don't use a Download Manager
that will allow you to resume a broken download?
JeffM
Those work *only* when there is "cooperation" at the other end...
Robert Baer
You can ask for the different blocks in the file
in any order you want.
Chuck Harris
That seems logical, |
but IME, *Resume* is at the option of the site admin.
..
..
| Quote: | the one included with Internet Explorer doesn't do a good job.
You do a disservice to real Download Managers |
by lumping that M$ crap in with the rest.
..
..
| Quote: | Not even the one that comes with Mozilla, or Firefox
does all that good of a job.
Amen. |
GetRight has been around a long time
and has gotten it mostly right since way back.
With GetRight, you sometimes get a warning in the dialog box[1]
that says that the site does not allow *Resume*.
..
..
..
[1] I LOVE the 4th box in the corner (a dot)
that allows you to *Minimize to Tray*.
I wish more apps had that.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Chuck Harris
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:35 am Post subject:
Re: New query for low cost PCB CAD that *works* |
|
|
JeffM wrote:
| Quote: | You don't use a Download Manager
that will allow you to resume a broken download?
JeffM
Those work *only* when there is "cooperation" at the other end...
|
Not so Robert! The website has no idea who or what is asking
for the information. What it does know is the "what" sends
it the location of the file desired (URL), and which block is currently
required. You can ask for the different blocks in the
file in any order you want. The download protocol is supposed
to ask for bad blocks to be repeated until they are successfully
downloaded.
There are a number of nice download managers that will go to
the 7 seas to make sure that a file is downloaded completely.
It shouldn't come as any big surprise that the one included with
Internet Explorer doesn't do a good job. Not even the one that
comes with Mozilla, or Firefox does all that good of a job. At
least with the Mozilla download manager, you can set how tenacious
it is.
-Chuck |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JeffM
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:35 am Post subject:
Re: New query for low cost PCB CAD that *works* |
|
|
| Quote: | You don't use a Download Manager
that will allow you to resume a broken download?
JeffM
Those work *only* when there is "cooperation" at the other end...
Robert Baer
|
You make that sound like a rare occourance.
I find the inverse to be true.
So, has your preconception kept you from installing one? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Robert Baer
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:35 am Post subject:
Re: New query for low cost PCB CAD that *works* |
|
|
Chuck Harris wrote:
| Quote: | JeffM wrote:
You don't use a Download Manager
that will allow you to resume a broken download?
JeffM
Those work *only* when there is "cooperation" at the other end...
Not so Robert! The website has no idea who or what is asking
for the information. What it does know is the "what" sends
it the location of the file desired (URL), and which block is currently
required. You can ask for the different blocks in the
file in any order you want. The download protocol is supposed
to ask for bad blocks to be repeated until they are successfully
downloaded.
There are a number of nice download managers that will go to
the 7 seas to make sure that a file is downloaded completely.
It shouldn't come as any big surprise that the one included with
Internet Explorer doesn't do a good job. Not even the one that
comes with Mozilla, or Firefox does all that good of a job. At
least with the Mozilla download manager, you can set how tenacious
it is.
-Chuck
I do not use IE; i *RIPPED* it out by its guts from Win98SE and as |
much as possible (but impossible to completely) in Win2K. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
David Brown
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Dec 05, 2005 5:35 pm Post subject:
Re: New query for low cost PCB CAD that *works* |
|
|
Chuck Harris wrote:
| Quote: | Robert Baer wrote:
It shouldn't come as any big surprise that the one included with
Internet Explorer doesn't do a good job. Not even the one that
comes with Mozilla, or Firefox does all that good of a job. At
least with the Mozilla download manager, you can set how tenacious
it is.
-Chuck
I do not use IE; i *RIPPED* it out by its guts from Win98SE and as
much as possible (but impossible to completely) in Win2K.
Good, very sensible! I see that you are using Netscape 7.2. Dare I
presume that you are using Netscape 7.2 for downloading files off of
the web?
I had a lot of trouble with Netscape saying that it had downloaded the
complete file, only to find that it had actually quit after being only
part of the way done.
|
It is IE that has the real reputation for doing exactly that (although
Netscape might do it too).
| Quote: | For FTP downloads, I use ProZilla, which unfortunately for you, only
runs under linux, and other unix like operating systems... but what
I describe will give you an idea of what is possible:
ProZilla goes out to the ftp site, and starts up to 4 different requests
for the file. The first asks for the first quarter, the second, the second
quarter, the third, the third quarter, and the fourth, the fourth quarter,
and it merrily sucks all four quarters of the file from the site at one
time. It won't quit until you stop it, or it has successfully downloaded
the entire file.
|
Sounds much like many other download managers. I find Free Download
Manager http://www.freedownloadmanager.org/ a pretty good solution for
windows.
| Quote: | The server side has no say in whether or not you can resume a download. It
is entirely up to your download manager... and as I said, even the one
in Mozilla, and Firefox is not very good. The one in Netscape seems to be
even worse. The transaction that goes on during a file download is one
where
your manager passes the number of the block it wants to the server, and the
server sends the block. Your download manager could ask for the blocks
in the
reverse order, or random order if it wanted to. The server side would
neither
know, nor care.
|
That's not actually true. Almost all ftp servers will support resumed
download by default, but it can be disabled and some older servers do
not support it by default. However, these days it is very rare to find
an ftp server that does not support resume (although many will limit the
simultaneous connections to a single IP address). Similarly, http
servers do not necessarily support resume - although most do, there is
still a substantial proportion that do not.
Still, using a decent download manager is strongly recommended.
| Quote: | Try googling the following words: "download" "manager" "windows"
It should get you a whole pile of download managers that will work under
netscrape on windoze.
One other thing I would suggest you do, is abandon netscape, and download
mozilla suite 1.7 from http://www.mozilla.org
It is a much better implementation than the ad ridden mess that netscape
became after being bought by AOL.
|
You should then abandon the mozilla suite, and download firefox (and
thunderbird for mail, if you want to switch mail client too). The
mozilla suite itself is pretty much dead-end - all its developers are
concentrating on firefox. Opera is another solid choice, if you like
its style.
> -Chuck |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Chuck Harris
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Dec 05, 2005 5:35 pm Post subject:
Re: New query for low cost PCB CAD that *works* |
|
|
David Brown wrote:
| Quote: |
It is a much better implementation than the ad ridden mess that netscape
became after being bought by AOL.
You should then abandon the mozilla suite, and download firefox (and
thunderbird for mail, if you want to switch mail client too). The
mozilla suite itself is pretty much dead-end - all its developers are
concentrating on firefox. Opera is another solid choice, if you like
its style.
|
Mozilla suite is vastly superior to the firefox/thunderbird combination.
It has a better user interface, a smaller footprint, and it has a chat
(IRC) feature, web development editors (composers), and javascript debuggers
all in one package.
Even combined with thunderbird, firefox cannot do even one half of what
mozilla suite does, and does well. MOFO were idiots for dumping the
suite in favor of the buggy IE/OE clones firefox and thunderbird.
The sole and only reason they did it was because MS had IE and OE separate.
Mozilla suite is currently being developed as the Seamonkey project.
-Chuck |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Chuck Harris
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Dec 05, 2005 5:35 pm Post subject:
Re: New query for low cost PCB CAD that *works* |
|
|
Robert Baer wrote:
| Quote: | It shouldn't come as any big surprise that the one included with
Internet Explorer doesn't do a good job. Not even the one that
comes with Mozilla, or Firefox does all that good of a job. At
least with the Mozilla download manager, you can set how tenacious
it is.
-Chuck
I do not use IE; i *RIPPED* it out by its guts from Win98SE and as
much as possible (but impossible to completely) in Win2K.
|
Good, very sensible! I see that you are using Netscape 7.2. Dare I
presume that you are using Netscape 7.2 for downloading files off of
the web?
I had a lot of trouble with Netscape saying that it had downloaded the
complete file, only to find that it had actually quit after being only
part of the way done.
For FTP downloads, I use ProZilla, which unfortunately for you, only
runs under linux, and other unix like operating systems... but what
I describe will give you an idea of what is possible:
ProZilla goes out to the ftp site, and starts up to 4 different requests
for the file. The first asks for the first quarter, the second, the second
quarter, the third, the third quarter, and the fourth, the fourth quarter,
and it merrily sucks all four quarters of the file from the site at one
time. It won't quit until you stop it, or it has successfully downloaded
the entire file.
The server side has no say in whether or not you can resume a download. It
is entirely up to your download manager... and as I said, even the one
in Mozilla, and Firefox is not very good. The one in Netscape seems to be
even worse. The transaction that goes on during a file download is one where
your manager passes the number of the block it wants to the server, and the
server sends the block. Your download manager could ask for the blocks in the
reverse order, or random order if it wanted to. The server side would neither
know, nor care.
Try googling the following words: "download" "manager" "windows"
It should get you a whole pile of download managers that will work under
netscrape on windoze.
One other thing I would suggest you do, is abandon netscape, and download
mozilla suite 1.7 from http://www.mozilla.org
It is a much better implementation than the ad ridden mess that netscape
became after being bought by AOL.
-Chuck |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JeffM
Guest
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Robert Baer
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Dec 06, 2005 9:12 am Post subject:
Re: New query for low cost PCB CAD that *works* |
|
|
Chuck Harris wrote:
| Quote: | Robert Baer wrote:
It shouldn't come as any big surprise that the one included with
Internet Explorer doesn't do a good job. Not even the one that
comes with Mozilla, or Firefox does all that good of a job. At
least with the Mozilla download manager, you can set how tenacious
it is.
-Chuck
I do not use IE; i *RIPPED* it out by its guts from Win98SE and as
much as possible (but impossible to completely) in Win2K.
Good, very sensible! I see that you are using Netscape 7.2. Dare I
presume that you are using Netscape 7.2 for downloading files off of
the web?
I had a lot of trouble with Netscape saying that it had downloaded the
complete file, only to find that it had actually quit after being only
part of the way done.
For FTP downloads, I use ProZilla, which unfortunately for you, only
runs under linux, and other unix like operating systems... but what
I describe will give you an idea of what is possible:
ProZilla goes out to the ftp site, and starts up to 4 different requests
for the file. The first asks for the first quarter, the second, the second
quarter, the third, the third quarter, and the fourth, the fourth quarter,
and it merrily sucks all four quarters of the file from the site at one
time. It won't quit until you stop it, or it has successfully downloaded
the entire file.
The server side has no say in whether or not you can resume a download. It
is entirely up to your download manager... and as I said, even the one
in Mozilla, and Firefox is not very good. The one in Netscape seems to be
even worse. The transaction that goes on during a file download is one
where
your manager passes the number of the block it wants to the server, and the
server sends the block. Your download manager could ask for the blocks
in the
reverse order, or random order if it wanted to. The server side would
neither
know, nor care.
Try googling the following words: "download" "manager" "windows"
It should get you a whole pile of download managers that will work under
netscrape on windoze.
One other thing I would suggest you do, is abandon netscape, and download
mozilla suite 1.7 from http://www.mozilla.org
It is a much better implementation than the ad ridden mess that netscape
became after being bought by AOL.
-Chuck
I have had zero problems downloading using NS72 - providing the line |
stayed connected (dropped only once during a 3Mbyte download).
And i have seen where it had no idea as to the file length - but
still zero problems.
So assuming i find a decent DLM that will be happy with NS, how would
i "inhibit" the NS DLM and "enable" the !foreign! one? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Robert Baer
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Dec 06, 2005 9:16 am Post subject:
Re: New query for low cost PCB CAD that *works* |
|
|
David Brown wrote:
| Quote: | Chuck Harris wrote:
Robert Baer wrote:
It shouldn't come as any big surprise that the one included with
Internet Explorer doesn't do a good job. Not even the one that
comes with Mozilla, or Firefox does all that good of a job. At
least with the Mozilla download manager, you can set how tenacious
it is.
-Chuck
I do not use IE; i *RIPPED* it out by its guts from Win98SE and as
much as possible (but impossible to completely) in Win2K.
Good, very sensible! I see that you are using Netscape 7.2. Dare I
presume that you are using Netscape 7.2 for downloading files off of
the web?
I had a lot of trouble with Netscape saying that it had downloaded the
complete file, only to find that it had actually quit after being only
part of the way done.
It is IE that has the real reputation for doing exactly that (although
Netscape might do it too).
For FTP downloads, I use ProZilla, which unfortunately for you, only
runs under linux, and other unix like operating systems... but what
I describe will give you an idea of what is possible:
ProZilla goes out to the ftp site, and starts up to 4 different requests
for the file. The first asks for the first quarter, the second, the
second
quarter, the third, the third quarter, and the fourth, the fourth
quarter,
and it merrily sucks all four quarters of the file from the site at one
time. It won't quit until you stop it, or it has successfully downloaded
the entire file.
Sounds much like many other download managers. I find Free Download
Manager http://www.freedownloadmanager.org/ a pretty good solution for
windows.
The server side has no say in whether or not you can resume a
download. It
is entirely up to your download manager... and as I said, even the one
in Mozilla, and Firefox is not very good. The one in Netscape seems
to be
even worse. The transaction that goes on during a file download is
one where
your manager passes the number of the block it wants to the server,
and the
server sends the block. Your download manager could ask for the
blocks in the
reverse order, or random order if it wanted to. The server side would
neither
know, nor care.
That's not actually true. Almost all ftp servers will support resumed
download by default, but it can be disabled and some older servers do
not support it by default. However, these days it is very rare to find
an ftp server that does not support resume (although many will limit the
simultaneous connections to a single IP address). Similarly, http
servers do not necessarily support resume - although most do, there is
still a substantial proportion that do not.
Still, using a decent download manager is strongly recommended.
Try googling the following words: "download" "manager" "windows"
It should get you a whole pile of download managers that will work under
netscrape on windoze.
One other thing I would suggest you do, is abandon netscape, and download
mozilla suite 1.7 from http://www.mozilla.org
It is a much better implementation than the ad ridden mess that netscape
became after being bought by AOL.
You should then abandon the mozilla suite, and download firefox (and
thunderbird for mail, if you want to switch mail client too). The
mozilla suite itself is pretty much dead-end - all its developers are
concentrating on firefox. Opera is another solid choice, if you like
its style.
-Chuck
That free DLM *demands* IE, so it is useless for me. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Robert Baer
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Dec 06, 2005 9:21 am Post subject:
Re: New query for low cost PCB CAD that *works* |
|
|
JeffM wrote:
say anything about limitations on the free download version. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Robert Baer
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Dec 06, 2005 9:27 am Post subject:
Re: New query for low cost PCB CAD that *works* |
|
|
Robert Baer wrote:
| Quote: | Do not mention Eagle, i wasted a lot of time on POTS to download the
demo version, and again, it was totally useless.
And i was unable to figure out what files wer needed to make the DOS
Orcad even run - so that is out.
PCB123 is out, because the manual is worse than obscene - unreadable
(Acrobat sez it is corrupted and cannot fix it).
So what is left?
So far i have tried WinQcad, VuTrax and DipTrace. |
I have nits to pick on all of them, but DipTrace has the fewest and
smallest.
Have e-mail queries out for demo CDs and pricing (why is it that so
few say anything about pricing?).
If there is no response within 5 days, the "option" is dropped. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Chuck Harris
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Dec 06, 2005 9:35 am Post subject:
Re: New query for low cost PCB CAD that *works* |
|
|
Robert Baer wrote:
| Quote: | One other thing I would suggest you do, is abandon netscape, and download
mozilla suite 1.7 from http://www.mozilla.org
It is a much better implementation than the ad ridden mess that netscape
became after being bought by AOL.
-Chuck
I have had zero problems downloading using NS72 - providing the line
stayed connected (dropped only once during a 3Mbyte download).
|
I keep my POTS line and modem up 24/7, for months at a time. I routinely
download files that at hundreds of megabytes in size. I just set them up
to go overnight.
| Quote: | And i have seen where it had no idea as to the file length - but still
zero problems.
|
When I do have problems, I think it is more a matter of the server end
timing out on my download. The server master has set the maximum download
interval to be shorter than the time required to download using a POTS
modem.
| Quote: |
So assuming i find a decent DLM that will be happy with NS, how would
i "inhibit" the NS DLM and "enable" the !foreign! one?
|
The DLM will have instructions on how to install it. Basically, it is
just a plugin.
Mozilla 1.7.x and Seamonkey are a better browser suite than Netscape. Netscape
is customized adaptation of Mozilla, so they share almost all of the same
code. But many of the things Netscape (AOL) did to customize Mozilla are
not appropriate to folks that don't use AOL, and they left out some interesting
tidbits.
-Chuck |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
Memberlist
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in