| Author |
Message |
Peter Hucker
Guest
|
 Posted:
Sat Nov 26, 2005 12:17 am Post subject:
Re: Use of Extension Cord |
|
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On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 14:59:46 -0000, John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:
| Quote: | On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 22:20:28 -0000, "Peter Hucker" <no@spam.com
wrote:
On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 19:36:03 -0000, John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:
---
Depends on the wire size and the length of the cord. Like the man
said, you need to study up on the wire charts and whatever the
regulations are. We have the NEC (National Electrical Code) to go
by. You???
If it can handle 15 amps, why rate it at 5? There must be a reason it's sold as 5 amp wire....
---
The amount of current a wire can "handle" is based on its
temperature rise and that, in turn varies with its cross-sectional
area. So, a wire which heats up to, say, 40°C over ambient with 5
amperes flowing through it would heat up to something like 120°C
with 15A flowing through it. (Less actually, but since you like
vague, there ya go.)
|
A 120C wire is not a good idea.
| Quote: | two 50 gallon electric water heaters,
Why do you use more water than me?
---
Why do you use less than I do?
|
FFS. I'll rephrase. What do you do with all that water?
| Quote: | and then there's lighting, the computers, TV, the lawn sprinkler system... It all
adds up.
Not that much it doesn't. And we have all those aswell. 80 amps is just fine.
---
I see. Since a puny 80 amp service is good enough for you, it should
be good enough for everyone else?
|
It's good enough for everyone in the UK. I find it hard to beleive Americans use more electricity.
| Quote: | And you're not egostical?
You're a fucking joke is what you are.
|
You should really cut back on the insults, you're providing more evidence for my argument in the other subthread.
| Quote: | Do you know hat the max you have ever used at once is?
---
No, and it doesn't matter. What does matter is that I _have_ the
capacity should I need it.
|
My point is you won't.
--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com
_..._
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||- | -||)
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\_______/
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|_____|
|_ _|
```
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John Fields
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Nov 26, 2005 1:35 am Post subject:
Re: Use of Extension Cord |
|
|
On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 18:17:14 -0000, "Peter Hucker" <no@spam.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | Why do you use more water than me?
---
Why do you use less than I do?
FFS. I'll rephrase. What do you do with all that water?
|
---
What do you think I do with it?
---
| Quote: | I see. Since a puny 80 amp service is good enough for you, it should
be good enough for everyone else?
It's good enough for everyone in the UK. I find it hard to beleive Americans use more electricity.
|
---
You just posted that you don't have air conditioning and that you
have a gas stove and probably a gas water heater, so since I have no
gas appliances at all, I use more electricity than you do.
---
| Quote: | And you're not egostical?
You're a fucking joke is what you are.
You should really cut back on the insults, you're providing more evidence for my argument in the other subthread.
|
---
You should go fuck yourself, and as far as your "evidence" goes, you
can stick it up your ass along with your "argument".
---
| Quote: | Do you know hat the max you have ever used at once is?
---
No, and it doesn't matter. What does matter is that I _have_ the
capacity should I need it.
My point is you won't.
|
---
LOL, so you can predict the future as well as being vague?
Amazing!!!
--
John Fields
Professional Circuit Designer |
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Michael A. Terrell
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Nov 26, 2005 1:35 am Post subject:
Re: Use of Extension Cord |
|
|
Peter Hucker wrote:
| Quote: |
On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 11:44:25 -0000, Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
Peter Hucker wrote:
And of course everyone obeys that. You cannot assume Mr A. N. Other will follow the rules.
Well, if they don't, and they cause a fire their insurance doesn't
have to pay the claim. After all, the NEC is written by the insurance
comapines.
Can you tell that much after a fire has burnt everything?
|
There is usually enough evidence for the fire inspectors to pinpoint
the cause of a fire, unless a lot of accelerants are used in arson
cases.
| Quote: | Yes I agree a larger capacity would sell the house better, but 200 seems a little excessive. Do people not try to conserve energy over there? I think I pay about 7p (about 12 cents) per kWh, what is your rate?
The number of breakers allowed is determined by the total capacity of
the service, so a 200 amp service allows you to provide more individual
circuits. Its all there, in the NEC. A house with no empty spaces in
the breaker box is a sign that you may have to rewire the house while
you own it, and it isn't cheap.
Er.... surely you can change 3 40 amp breakers to 4 30 amp breakers? (Simple figures used for er... simplicity).
|
No, it can't be done because all high current items are on separate
breakers rated for each load, and lower current circuits for lighting
and wall outlets are broken into small groups so that if you trip a
breaker you don't lose all the lights. Like I've said before, you have
to read and understand the NEC to see how the system works.
| Quote: | As far as conserving energy, I try, but I repair donated computers to
give to disabled Veterans who can't afford a computer and it adds to my
bill. The current rate is 4.813 cents per KWH for the first 1000 KWh
and 5.813 cents per KWH above 1000 KWH.
That's a lot cheaper than here. Ours is (checks bill - OUCH!) 22.07 cents for the first 225kWh and 14.24 cents thereafter.
What's your gas prices like? (What do you call gas if you call petrol gas?) Here it's 4.38 cents for the first 1143kWh, and 3.01 cents thereafter. I wish PCs ran on gas.
Christ almighty..... glad you brought this up, I'm now switching provider and saving 25% :-))))
Then they add a 3.918 cent per KWH fuel charge that almost doubles my bill.
What is this? Why do they charge twice?
|
Its called a fuel surcharge that they are allowed to collect anything
over the price fuel was the last time the rates were set. In other
words, if they pay more for the fuel to run the plant, the extra cost is
passed on.
| Quote: | 50 quid, which must be about 714 kWh - about the same as you. That's with flourescent lighting (when they break they're getting changed to LEDs!) and no electric heating. Where the hell is it going? Mind you I have 14 parrots and use the vacuum and steam cleaner an awful lot.
Like I said above, I repair computers, and have anywhere from one to
five on at a time.
I have two of my own running 24/7. I stopped using those distributed computing things as they consume major amounts of electricity.
I also have two refrigerators because I only go to
the grocery store a couple times a month, and buy most food in bulk.
So, I use a little more electricity, but a lot less gasoline.
I'd love to do that (although the supermarket is only 5 mins drive away), but surely a lot of things like milk and cheese go off?
--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com
When working with electronics, my best advice is to do whatever it takes to prevent the smoke from leaking out of the components. Electronic parts require the smoke to stay inside to function correctly!
|
--
?
Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
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Peter Hucker
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Nov 26, 2005 1:35 am Post subject:
Re: Use of Extension Cord |
|
|
On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 19:47:04 -0000, Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
| Quote: | Peter Hucker wrote:
On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 11:44:25 -0000, Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
Peter Hucker wrote:
And of course everyone obeys that. You cannot assume Mr A. N. Other will follow the rules.
Well, if they don't, and they cause a fire their insurance doesn't
have to pay the claim. After all, the NEC is written by the insurance
comapines.
Can you tell that much after a fire has burnt everything?
There is usually enough evidence for the fire inspectors to pinpoint
the cause of a fire, unless a lot of accelerants are used in arson
cases.
Yes I agree a larger capacity would sell the house better, but 200 seems a little excessive. Do people not try to conserve energy over there? I think I pay about 7p (about 12 cents) per kWh, what is your rate?
The number of breakers allowed is determined by the total capacity of
the service, so a 200 amp service allows you to provide more individual
circuits. Its all there, in the NEC. A house with no empty spaces in
the breaker box is a sign that you may have to rewire the house while
you own it, and it isn't cheap.
Er.... surely you can change 3 40 amp breakers to 4 30 amp breakers? (Simple figures used for er... simplicity).
No, it can't be done because all high current items are on separate
breakers rated for each load, and lower current circuits for lighting
and wall outlets are broken into small groups so that if you trip a
breaker you don't lose all the lights. Like I've said before, you have
to read and understand the NEC to see how the system works.
|
Hmmmm. Taking this house as an example, I've got:
30 amp x2 for outlets.
5 amp x2 for lights.
15 amp for the water heater.
15 amp for the garage.
15 amp for the shower.
1 spare slot.
Total is currently at 80 amps. The electricity boards fuse is also 80 amps. I can do what the hell I like in MY fusebox (it's none of their business), but I'm not allowed to fiddle with the meter (they really don't like people getting free power) or the 80 amp fuse which is on their side of the meter. If I added loads more circuits, it's no problem, but if I go over 80 amps at any time and blow their fuse, they would charge me to come out and replace it.
| Quote: | As far as conserving energy, I try, but I repair donated computers to
give to disabled Veterans who can't afford a computer and it adds to my
bill. The current rate is 4.813 cents per KWH for the first 1000 KWh
and 5.813 cents per KWH above 1000 KWH.
That's a lot cheaper than here. Ours is (checks bill - OUCH!) 22.07 cents for the first 225kWh and 14.24 cents thereafter.
What's your gas prices like? (What do you call gas if you call petrol gas?) Here it's 4.38 cents for the first 1143kWh, and 3.01 cents thereafter. I wish PCs ran on gas.
Christ almighty..... glad you brought this up, I'm now switching provider and saving 25% :-))))
Then they add a 3.918 cent per KWH fuel charge that almost doubles my bill.
What is this? Why do they charge twice?
Its called a fuel surcharge that they are allowed to collect anything
over the price fuel was the last time the rates were set. In other
words, if they pay more for the fuel to run the plant, the extra cost is
passed on.
|
It doesn't make sense to me. Why not charge the correct price in the first place? Our companies simply change the rates every so often.
Now how did that get in there? Damn random sig generator is not random me thinks.....
--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com
This fellow comes into a pharmacy and asks for a vial of cyanide. The pharmacist, trying to keep a professional posture, asked what he wanted it for.
The fellow said, "I want to kill my wife."
"I'm sorry Sir," the pharmacist replied, "but you will have to understand under such circumstances I can't sell you any cyanide."
The guy reaches into his wallet and produces a photo of his wife, then shows it to the pharmacist.
The pharmacist blushes and replies, "I am sorry, sir, I didn't realize you had a prescription." |
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Peter Hucker
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:35 am Post subject:
Re: Use of Extension Cord |
|
|
On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 23:12:16 -0000, John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:
| Quote: | On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 18:17:14 -0000, "Peter Hucker" <no@spam.com
wrote:
Why do you use more water than me?
---
Why do you use less than I do?
FFS. I'll rephrase. What do you do with all that water?
---
What do you think I do with it?
|
I have no idea, which is why I asked.
| Quote: | I see. Since a puny 80 amp service is good enough for you, it should
be good enough for everyone else?
It's good enough for everyone in the UK. I find it hard to beleive Americans use more electricity.
---
You just posted that you don't have air conditioning
|
That doesn't use much.
| Quote: | and that you
have a gas stove and probably a gas water heater, so since I have no
gas appliances at all, I use more electricity than you do.
|
Than ME. But the 80 amps is the same for houses here with electric heating.
| Quote: | And you're not egostical?
You're a fucking joke is what you are.
You should really cut back on the insults, you're providing more evidence for my argument in the other subthread.
---
You should go fuck yourself, and as far as your "evidence" goes, you
can stick it up your ass along with your "argument".
|
Two in one sentence, you're getting worse.
| Quote: | Do you know hat the max you have ever used at once is?
---
No, and it doesn't matter. What does matter is that I _have_ the
capacity should I need it.
My point is you won't.
---
LOL, so you can predict the future as well as being vague?
Amazing!!!
|
Electricity usage will not increase dramatically. Things become more efficient. People become more environmentally conscious.
--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com
A woman brought an old picture of her dead husband, wearing a hat, to the photographer. She wanted to know if the photographer could remove the hat from the picture.
He convinced her he could easily do that, and asked her what side of his head her husband parted his hair on.
"I forgot," she said. "But you can see that for yourself when you take off his hat." |
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John Fields
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Nov 27, 2005 1:35 am Post subject:
Re: Use of Extension Cord |
|
|
On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 06:54:49 -0000, "Peter Hucker" <no@spam.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 23:12:16 -0000, John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:
On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 18:17:14 -0000, "Peter Hucker" <no@spam.com
wrote:
Why do you use more water than me?
---
Why do you use less than I do?
FFS. I'll rephrase. What do you do with all that water?
|
You must have _some_ idea. That is, I'm almost sure you use hot
water for the same things I do; bathing and washing clothes and
dishes. May be I have more clothing and bathe more often?
---
| Quote: | ---
What do you think I do with it?
I have no idea, which is why I asked.
I see. Since a puny 80 amp service is good enough for you, it should
be good enough for everyone else?
It's good enough for everyone in the UK. I find it hard to beleive Americans use more electricity.
---
You just posted that you don't have air conditioning
That doesn't use much.
|
---
Sorry, Charlie...
---
| Quote: | and that you
have a gas stove and probably a gas water heater, so since I have no
gas appliances at all, I use more electricity than you do.
Than ME. But the 80 amps is the same for houses here with electric heating.
|
---
Fine, but if you take the time to gather some facts I'm sure you'll
find that, by and large, our houses are larger than yours and
consequently cost more to heat _and_ to cool. Check into air
conditioning costs and you'll find that it takes much more energy to
do that than you thought if you think it "doesn't use much,"
---
| Quote: | You should go fuck yourself, and as far as your "evidence" goes, you
can stick it up your ass along with your "argument".
Two in one sentence, you're getting worse.
|
---
Nope, just more efficient.
---
| Quote: | Electricity usage will not increase dramatically.
|
---
Really? Envision someone in the US moving into a house with an 80
amp service and wanting to air condition part of it that wasn't
air-conditioned before. If the capacity isn't there, it just won't
happen.
--
John Fields
Professional Circuit Designer |
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Peter Hucker
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Nov 27, 2005 4:42 pm Post subject:
Re: Use of Extension Cord |
|
|
On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 20:20:07 -0000, John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:
| Quote: | On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 06:54:49 -0000, "Peter Hucker" <no@spam.com
wrote:
On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 23:12:16 -0000, John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:
On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 18:17:14 -0000, "Peter Hucker" <no@spam.com
wrote:
---
Why do you use less than I do?
FFS. I'll rephrase. What do you do with all that water?
You must have _some_ idea. That is, I'm almost sure you use hot
water for the same things I do; bathing and washing clothes and
dishes. May be I have more clothing and bathe more often?
|
Myself, I never actually heat water, but that's besides the point. I know noone here (except one) who has more than a standard water tank (about 3ft high and 2ft wide). The exception is someone who uses the tanks to heat the house - he has a very unusual system, he gets very very cheap electricity to heat them, switched on remotely by radio by the generating board when there is surplus power.
| Quote: | What do you think I do with it?
I have no idea, which is why I asked.
I see. Since a puny 80 amp service is good enough for you, it should
be good enough for everyone else?
It's good enough for everyone in the UK. I find it hard to beleive Americans use more electricity.
---
You just posted that you don't have air conditioning
That doesn't use much.
---
Sorry, Charlie...
|
I take it that's an American phrase for "incorrect"?
| Quote: | and that you
have a gas stove and probably a gas water heater, so since I have no
gas appliances at all, I use more electricity than you do.
Than ME. But the 80 amps is the same for houses here with electric heating.
---
Fine, but if you take the time to gather some facts I'm sure you'll
find that, by and large, our houses are larger than yours and
consequently cost more to heat _and_ to cool.
|
That may be possible. The one good thing about America is the space. How come your poulation has not grown to overfill it like the rest of us? Maybe Durex is cheaper over there ;-)
| Quote: | Check into air
conditioning costs and you'll find that it takes much more energy to
do that than you thought if you think it "doesn't use much,"
|
It's just a big refridgerator. I'm assuming cooling the house by 10 degrees costs less than heating it by 10 degrees.
| Quote: | You should go fuck yourself, and as far as your "evidence" goes, you
can stick it up your ass along with your "argument".
Two in one sentence, you're getting worse.
---
Nope, just more efficient.
|
You don't need to be efficient with 200 amps.
| Quote: | Electricity usage will not increase dramatically.
---
Really? Envision someone in the US moving into a house with an 80
amp service and wanting to air condition part of it that wasn't
air-conditioned before. If the capacity isn't there, it just won't
happen.
|
So, how many amps does your airconditioner use?
--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com
My penis is 12 inches long, but I don't use it as a rule. |
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John Fields
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Nov 27, 2005 5:35 pm Post subject:
Re: Use of Extension Cord |
|
|
On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 10:42:13 -0000, "Peter Hucker" <no@spam.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | You just posted that you don't have air conditioning
That doesn't use much.
---
Sorry, Charlie...
I take it that's an American phrase for "incorrect"?
|
---
More or less. Go to abse and download "starkist.au"
---
| Quote: | ---
Fine, but if you take the time to gather some facts I'm sure you'll
find that, by and large, our houses are larger than yours and
consequently cost more to heat _and_ to cool.
That may be possible. The one good thing about America is the space.
|
---
The "one good thing"? What is it with you that you like to start
shit?
---
| Quote: | How come your poulation has not grown to overfill it like the rest of us?
Maybe Durex is cheaper >over there ;-)
|
---
Maybe we know what they're for?
---
| Quote: | Check into air
conditioning costs and you'll find that it takes much more energy to
do that than you thought if you think it "doesn't use much,"
It's just a big refridgerator. I'm assuming cooling the house by 10 degrees costs less than heating it by 10 degrees.
|
---
Don't assume; do the math.
---
| Quote: | You should go fuck yourself, and as far as your "evidence" goes, you
can stick it up your ass along with your "argument".
Two in one sentence, you're getting worse.
---
Nope, just more efficient.
You don't need to be efficient with 200 amps.
|
---
That's just stupid. If you don't know why, that's even worse.
---
| Quote: | Electricity usage will not increase dramatically.
---
Really? Envision someone in the US moving into a house with an 80
amp service and wanting to air condition part of it that wasn't
air-conditioned before. If the capacity isn't there, it just won't
happen.
So, how many amps does your airconditioner use?
|
---
The largest one has a starting current of 129 amps and a running
current of 25 amps, the next largest a starting current of 61 amps
and a running current of 13 amps and the smallest one probably about
50 amps and ten amps, all on a single phase 240V service.
--
John Fields
Professional Circuit Designer |
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Peter Hucker
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Nov 27, 2005 5:35 pm Post subject:
Re: Use of Extension Cord |
|
|
On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 13:46:54 -0000, John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:
| Quote: | On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 10:42:13 -0000, "Peter Hucker" <no@spam.com
wrote:
You just posted that you don't have air conditioning
That doesn't use much.
---
Sorry, Charlie...
I take it that's an American phrase for "incorrect"?
---
More or less. Go to abse and download "starkist.au"
|
ARGH! You watch adverts? You nee a spam filter on your TV set.
| Quote: | Fine, but if you take the time to gather some facts I'm sure you'll
find that, by and large, our houses are larger than yours and
consequently cost more to heat _and_ to cool.
That may be possible. The one good thing about America is the space.
---
The "one good thing"? What is it with you that you like to start
shit?
|
Remove the the then. [Grammatical appallingness may be deliberate, it may not.]
| Quote: | How come your poulation has not grown to overfill it like the rest of us?
Maybe Durex is cheaper >over there ;-)
---
Maybe we know what they're for?
|
It's the Irish and Italians that are Catholic.
| Quote: | Check into air
conditioning costs and you'll find that it takes much more energy to
do that than you thought if you think it "doesn't use much,"
It's just a big refridgerator. I'm assuming cooling the house by 10 degrees costs less than heating it by 10 degrees.
---
Don't assume; do the math.
|
I don't need to. I know the basics of what they do. Heating the house has to generate that heat. An AC just MOVES the heat. Any electricity used is due to inefficiency (like with a lightbulb).
| Quote: | You should go fuck yourself, and as far as your "evidence" goes, you
can stick it up your ass along with your "argument".
Two in one sentence, you're getting worse.
---
Nope, just more efficient.
You don't need to be efficient with 200 amps.
---
That's just stupid. If you don't know why, that's even worse.
|
It's not stupid, it was a hint that Americans are not efficient - look at your gas guzzlers.
| Quote: | Electricity usage will not increase dramatically.
---
Really? Envision someone in the US moving into a house with an 80
amp service and wanting to air condition part of it that wasn't
air-conditioned before. If the capacity isn't there, it just won't
happen.
So, how many amps does your airconditioner use?
---
The largest one has a starting current of 129 amps and a running
current of 25 amps, the next largest a starting current of 61 amps
and a running current of 13 amps and the smallest one probably about
50 amps and ten amps, all on a single phase 240V service.
|
How often are they on? You must have an extremely large house, or live on the equator and like the temperature to be zero.
--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com
What does Michael Jackson like about twenty-eight year olds?
The fact that there are twenty of them. |
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John Fields
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Nov 28, 2005 12:18 am Post subject:
Re: Use of Extension Cord |
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|
On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 14:14:42 -0000, "Peter Hucker" <no@spam.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | ARGH! You watch adverts? You nee a spam filter on your TV set.
|
---
I watch what I please and if I don't like it I mute it. Simple.
---
| Quote: | Remove the the then. [Grammatical appallingness may be deliberate, it may not.]
|
---
Grammar has nothing to do with it. Gratuitous insults do, you
miserable piece of shit.
---
| Quote: | It's the Irish and Italians that are Catholic.
|
---
And you are neither, and nothing?
---
| Quote: | Don't assume; do the math.
I don't need to.
|
---
Yes, you do.
---
I know the basics of what they do. Heating the house has to
generate that heat. An AC just MOVES the heat.
---
And generates waste heat in the process. What, do you think you can
compress a gas until it turns into a liquid for free?
---
Any electricity used is due to inefficiency (like with a lightbulb).
---
No, the waste heat generated is due to the inefficiency of the
_process_. You really ought to stick with something you know
something about if you don't want to end up with egg on your face.
Oh, but wait... what would that be??? So far, all you seem to be
good at is creating confusion.
---
| Quote: | You should go fuck yourself, and as far as your "evidence" goes, you
can stick it up your ass along with your "argument".
Two in one sentence, you're getting worse.
---
Nope, just more efficient.
You don't need to be efficient with 200 amps.
---
That's just stupid. If you don't know why, that's even worse.
It's not stupid, it was a hint that Americans are not efficient - look at your gas guzzlers.
|
---
It certainly is stupid, and gas-guzzlers have nothing to do with it.
You're implying that because we have 200A services our (say)
refrigerators run less efficienly that yours do because you only
have 80 amp services? It's just the other way around moron.
Since your 80 amp services have smaller diameter cable in them than
our 200 amp services do, their higher resistance causes higher
losses due to increased power dissipation and heating of the cable.
Do the math.
---
| Quote: | So, how many amps does your airconditioner use?
---
The largest one has a starting current of 129 amps and a running
current of 25 amps, the next largest a starting current of 61 amps
and a running current of 13 amps and the smallest one probably about
50 amps and ten amps, all on a single phase 240V service.
How often are they on?
|
---
What the fuck is it to you?
---
| Quote: | You must have an extremely large house, or live on the equator
and like the temperature to be zero.
|
---
If you can figure out how to, look at my headers and figure it out
for yourself, moron.
--
John Fields
Professional Circuit Designer |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Peter Hucker
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 28, 2005 12:29 am Post subject:
Re: Use of Extension Cord |
|
|
On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 18:18:03 -0000, John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:
| Quote: | On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 14:14:42 -0000, "Peter Hucker" <no@spam.com
wrote:
ARGH! You watch adverts? You nee a spam filter on your TV set.
---
I watch what I please and if I don't like it I mute it. Simple.
|
You remembered this one.
| Quote: | Remove the the then. [Grammatical appallingness may be deliberate, it may not.]
---
Grammar has nothing to do with it. Gratuitous insults do, you
miserable piece of shit.
|
Er.... you tell me not to insult, then insult me in the same sentence?
| Quote: | It's the Irish and Italians that are Catholic.
---
And you are neither, and nothing?
|
I have no religion, yes.
| Quote: | Don't assume; do the math.
I don't need to.
---
Yes, you do.
|
No I don't.
| Quote: | I know the basics of what they do. Heating the house has to
generate that heat. An AC just MOVES the heat.
|
I wrote this part, it needs two >, upgrade your software.
| Quote: | And generates waste heat in the process. What, do you think you can
compress a gas until it turns into a liquid for free?
|
No, but the waste won't be as much as the heat movced, unless it's a really crap AC.
| Quote: | Any electricity used is due to inefficiency (like with a lightbulb).
---
No, the waste heat generated is due to the inefficiency of the
_process_. You really ought to stick with something you know
something about if you don't want to end up with egg on your face.
Oh, but wait... what would that be??? So far, all you seem to be
good at is creating confusion.
|
My refridgerator uses fuck all power.
| Quote: | Nope, just more efficient.
You don't need to be efficient with 200 amps.
---
That's just stupid. If you don't know why, that's even worse.
It's not stupid, it was a hint that Americans are not efficient - look at your gas guzzlers.
---
It certainly is stupid, and gas-guzzlers have nothing to do with it.
|
They have everything todo with it. Go look up some stats on pollution per head from different countries.
| Quote: | You're implying that because we have 200A services our (say)
refrigerators run less efficienly that yours do because you only
have 80 amp services? It's just the other way around moron.
|
I didn't imply that at all.
| Quote: | Since your 80 amp services have smaller diameter cable in them than
our 200 amp services do, their higher resistance causes higher
losses due to increased power dissipation and heating of the cable.
Do the math.
|
I have no idea what diameter cable we have. That's up to the electric board. It's up to them to weigh up the cost of thicker cable versus more heating. Maybe it defrosts the water pipes in winter?
| Quote: | So, how many amps does your airconditioner use?
---
The largest one has a starting current of 129 amps and a running
current of 25 amps, the next largest a starting current of 61 amps
and a running current of 13 amps and the smallest one probably about
50 amps and ten amps, all on a single phase 240V service.
How often are they on?
---
What the fuck is it to you?
|
It has everything to do with your power consumption, which is what we are discussing.
| Quote: | You must have an extremely large house, or live on the equator
and like the temperature to be zero.
---
If you can figure out how to, look at my headers and figure it out
for yourself, moron.
|
I'm not a geek, I can't be bothered.
--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com
..---..___..
,/', (o\ "\_|
.:| `_ `- ,/| /
/:.`\_,' _..-'
|:.. `-._.-'
::.. /
;:.. |
|:.. ,/
|:.. /' |
/:..| |
|:..; ;
;:../ :\
/:..; :\
;:.. ; `\. :-.
|:.. | `-. \,
|:.. ; | `-.__/'
|:.. `\.' ``
;:.. /
/:. ,'
|;:.. ;
/::.. `:\.|\
|::.. :`.|
|::.. \'
__...\:::.. ;-.
..---:::::::..`\:::.. |_/
(:::::::::...../'|::.. `--`-.
`---"" `\,____ _)
"""" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Michael A. Terrell
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 28, 2005 12:42 am Post subject:
Re: Use of Extension Cord |
|
|
Peter Hucker wrote:
| Quote: |
Hmmmm. Taking this house as an example, I've got:
30 amp x2 for outlets.
5 amp x2 for lights.
15 amp for the water heater.
15 amp for the garage.
15 amp for the shower.
1 spare slot.
Total is currently at 80 amps. The electricity boards fuse is also 80 amps. I can do what the hell I like in MY fusebox (it's none of their business), but I'm not allowed to fiddle with the meter (they really don't like people getting free power) or the 80 amp fuse which is on their side of the meter. If I added loads more circuits, it's no problem, but if I go over 80 amps at any time and blow their fuse, they would charge me to come out and replace it.
|
Gee, over here the watt-hour meter is connected first, followed by
the service disconnect breaker that is used to protect everything
downstream, and to provide a easy way to disconnect all power in an
emergency. My meter and main service panel are on a pole by my
driveway, with underground feeds to three buildings. The garage has
it's own 100 amp 240 Volt panel with 12 breaker positions, the tool shed
has a 20 amp 240 volt panel with four breaker positions and the main
house has a 150 Amp 240 Volt panel with 20 breaker positions. The
cottage has two breaker boxes. One for the hot water heater that is in
an attached shed and another 60 Amp 240V breaker box with 4 breaker
positions for the lights and AC. There are nine breaker boxes all
together, and I don't need to list them all. One more will be added
when I can finally afford a new generator with an automatic transfer
switch.
| Quote: | It doesn't make sense to me. Why not charge the correct price in the first place? Our companies simply change the rates every so often.
|
The price is set by the government, and is changed avery couple
years. The fuel costs change daily and are averaged out for the month
and added on. The other method is to set the rate higher than it should
be, and then when the actual costs exceed the limit to raise them a
fixed percentage which doesn't reflect the actual costs as well.
--
?
Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
John Fields
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 28, 2005 1:17 am Post subject:
Re: Use of Extension Cord |
|
|
On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 18:29:40 -0000, "Peter Hucker" <no@spam.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 18:18:03 -0000, John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:
On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 14:14:42 -0000, "Peter Hucker" <no@spam.com
wrote:
ARGH! You watch adverts? You nee a spam filter on your TV set.
---
I watch what I please and if I don't like it I mute it. Simple.
You remembered this one.
|
---
Yes, dumbass, because I liked it.
---
| Quote: | Remove the the then. [Grammatical appallingness may be deliberate, it may not.]
---
Grammar has nothing to do with it. Gratuitous insults do, you
miserable piece of shit.
Er.... you tell me not to insult, then insult me in the same sentence?
|
---
Yes, of course. Your insults are gratuitous, while mine are
retaliatory.
---
| Quote: | It's the Irish and Italians that are Catholic.
---
And you are neither, and nothing?
I have no religion, yes.
Don't assume; do the math.
I don't need to.
---
Yes, you do.
No I don't.
|
---
You mean you _can't_?
---
| Quote: | I know the basics of what they do. Heating the house has to
generate that heat. An AC just MOVES the heat.
I wrote this part, it needs two >, upgrade your software.
|
---
Blow me.
---
| Quote: | And generates waste heat in the process. What, do you think you can
compress a gas until it turns into a liquid for free?
No, but the waste won't be as much as the heat movced, unless it's a really crap AC.
|
---
Prove it. Show me some data.
---
| Quote: | Any electricity used is due to inefficiency (like with a lightbulb).
---
No, the waste heat generated is due to the inefficiency of the
_process_. You really ought to stick with something you know
something about if you don't want to end up with egg on your face.
Oh, but wait... what would that be??? So far, all you seem to be
good at is creating confusion.
My refridgerator uses fuck all power.
|
---
That's because it's enclosing a very small volume and has much
better insulation than most houses do.
BTW, there's no 'd' in refrigerator.
---
| Quote: | Nope, just more efficient.
You don't need to be efficient with 200 amps.
---
That's just stupid. If you don't know why, that's even worse.
It's not stupid, it was a hint that Americans are not efficient - look at your gas guzzlers.
---
It certainly is stupid, and gas-guzzlers have nothing to do with it.
They have everything todo with it. Go look up some stats on pollution per head from different countries.
|
---
No dumbass, gas-guzzling has nothing to do with it, and from what I
see on the street, there aren't huge numbers of gas-guzzlers around.
What's doing it is that about 80% of the 200 million of us are
driving long distances every day. That'll probably change as gas
prices increase and many more of us will be able to work from home,
as I do now. And, anyway, the jury's still out as to whether CO2's
a pollutant or not.
---
| Quote: | You're implying that because we have 200A services our (say)
refrigerators run less efficienly that yours do because you only
have 80 amp services? It's just the other way around moron.
I didn't imply that at all.
|
---
Then what were you struggling to say?
---
| Quote: | Since your 80 amp services have smaller diameter cable in them than
our 200 amp services do, their higher resistance causes higher
losses due to increased power dissipation and heating of the cable.
Do the math.
I have no idea what diameter cable we have.
|
---
Then you shouldn't be saying that a 200A service is less efficient
than an 80A one is.
---
| Quote: | That's up to the electric board.
It's up to them to weigh up the cost of thicker cable versus more heating.
Maybe it defrosts the water pipes in winter?
|
---
More bullshit. You don't know what you're talking about so you try
to blame your ignorance on the electric board.
---
| Quote: | So, how many amps does your airconditioner use?
---
The largest one has a starting current of 129 amps and a running
current of 25 amps, the next largest a starting current of 61 amps
and a running current of 13 amps and the smallest one probably about
50 amps and ten amps, all on a single phase 240V service.
How often are they on?
---
What the fuck is it to you?
It has everything to do with your power consumption, which is what we are discussing.
|
---
No, we're discussing efficiency, not how much power I use.
---
| Quote: | You must have an extremely large house, or live on the equator
and like the temperature to be zero.
---
If you can figure out how to, look at my headers and figure it out
for yourself, moron.
I'm not a geek, I can't be bothered.
|
---
Hmmm... Something else you're not. So far it seems there's very
little of substance to you and even that's dwindling fast.
--
John Fields
Professional Circuit Designer |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Peter Hucker
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 28, 2005 1:35 am Post subject:
Re: Use of Extension Cord |
|
|
On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 19:17:28 -0000, John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:
| Quote: | On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 18:29:40 -0000, "Peter Hucker" <no@spam.com
wrote:
On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 18:18:03 -0000, John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:
On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 14:14:42 -0000, "Peter Hucker" <no@spam.com
wrote:
ARGH! You watch adverts? You nee a spam filter on your TV set.
---
I watch what I please and if I don't like it I mute it. Simple.
You remembered this one.
---
Yes, dumbass, because I liked it.
|
Even though it was muted? Either you have exceptional hearing, or your mute needs repairing.
| Quote: | Remove the the then. [Grammatical appallingness may be deliberate, it may not.]
---
Grammar has nothing to do with it. Gratuitous insults do, you
miserable piece of shit.
Er.... you tell me not to insult, then insult me in the same sentence?
---
Yes, of course. Your insults are gratuitous, while mine are
retaliatory.
|
You started the insults first, and they were a lot stronger.
| Quote: | It's the Irish and Italians that are Catholic.
---
And you are neither, and nothing?
I have no religion, yes.
Don't assume; do the math.
I don't need to.
---
Yes, you do.
No I don't.
---
You mean you _can't_?
|
I mean I can't be bothered.
| Quote: | I know the basics of what they do. Heating the house has to
generate that heat. An AC just MOVES the heat.
I wrote this part, it needs two >, upgrade your software.
---
Blow me.
|
More innuendo. Why are most American phrases sexually orientated?
| Quote: | And generates waste heat in the process. What, do you think you can
compress a gas until it turns into a liquid for free?
No, but the waste won't be as much as the heat movced, unless it's a really crap AC.
---
Prove it. Show me some data.
|
That would involve me not being lazy. But here you go.....
1055 joules = 1 BTU (you're using BRITISH units! Get with the times and go metric ffs)
1 joule = 1 watt second
Therefore 3600 joules = 1 watt hour
Therefore 3.4 BTU = 1 watt hour
SEER (seasonal energy efficiency ratio) = BTU/watt hours
A good AC is rated as 18 SEER, which means it moves 18 BTU per watt hour consumed.
Or 5.29 watt hours moved for each watt hour consumed.
Even older inefficient ACs are 6 SEER, which move 1.76 watt hours for each watt hour consumed.
So I was correct in assuming ACs use less than heaters.
| Quote: | Any electricity used is due to inefficiency (like with a lightbulb).
---
No, the waste heat generated is due to the inefficiency of the
_process_. You really ought to stick with something you know
something about if you don't want to end up with egg on your face.
Oh, but wait... what would that be??? So far, all you seem to be
good at is creating confusion.
My refridgerator uses fuck all power.
---
That's because it's enclosing a very small volume and has much
better insulation than most houses do.
BTW, there's no 'd' in refrigerator.
|
There's a d in fridge.
| Quote: | That's just stupid. If you don't know why, that's even worse.
It's not stupid, it was a hint that Americans are not efficient - look at your gas guzzlers.
---
It certainly is stupid, and gas-guzzlers have nothing to do with it.
They have everything todo with it. Go look up some stats on pollution per head from different countries.
---
No dumbass, gas-guzzling has nothing to do with it, and from what I
see on the street, there aren't huge numbers of gas-guzzlers around.
What's doing it is that about 80% of the 200 million of us are
driving long distances every day. That'll probably change as gas
prices increase and many more of us will be able to work from home,
as I do now.
|
You should try commuting here. Our "government" puts 400% (!) tax on petrol.
| Quote: | And, anyway, the jury's still out as to whether CO2's a pollutant or not.
|
CO2 isn't the worst thing out of an exhaust, although newer cars do pollute less. (No I'm not convinced about the greenhouse effect either)
| Quote: | You're implying that because we have 200A services our (say)
refrigerators run less efficienly that yours do because you only
have 80 amp services? It's just the other way around moron.
I didn't imply that at all.
---
Then what were you struggling to say?
|
I wasn't saying anything, it was a joke.
| Quote: | Since your 80 amp services have smaller diameter cable in them than
our 200 amp services do, their higher resistance causes higher
losses due to increased power dissipation and heating of the cable.
Do the math.
I have no idea what diameter cable we have.
---
Then you shouldn't be saying that a 200A service is less efficient
than an 80A one is.
|
I didn't. I said it suggested you could be less efficient. You have the ability to consume vast amounts of electricity in the home, or are at least expecting to do so.
| Quote: | That's up to the electric board.
It's up to them to weigh up the cost of thicker cable versus more heating.
Maybe it defrosts the water pipes in winter?
---
More bullshit. You don't know what you're talking about so you try
to blame your ignorance on the electric board.
|
You said our cables were inefficient. And I find it hard to beleive the electricity board hasn't worked this out. How do you think they came up with the voltage for the national grid pylons? It's down to cost of cable thickness, heating losses, height of pylons, etc.
| Quote: | The largest one has a starting current of 129 amps and a running
current of 25 amps, the next largest a starting current of 61 amps
and a running current of 13 amps and the smallest one probably about
50 amps and ten amps, all on a single phase 240V service.
How often are they on?
---
What the fuck is it to you?
It has everything to do with your power consumption, which is what we are discussing.
---
No, we're discussing efficiency, not how much power I use.
|
I was trying to establish how much power you used to run your AC.
| Quote: | You must have an extremely large house, or live on the equator
and like the temperature to be zero.
---
If you can figure out how to, look at my headers and figure it out
for yourself, moron.
I'm not a geek, I can't be bothered.
---
Hmmm... Something else you're not. So far it seems there's very
little of substance to you and even that's dwindling fast.
|
People who look at headers as a matter of course are very very odd.
--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com
The Pope was working on a crossword puzzle. He thought and thought about one clue, finally gave up and asked the Cardinal next to him, "What's a four letter word, ending in U - N - T that means 'woman'?"
The Cardinal was working on his own puzzle and didn't even bother to look up. "'Aunt,' your Holiness."
The Pope didn't speak for a second. "Oh." He paused. "Do you have an eraser?" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike Monett
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 28, 2005 1:35 am Post subject:
Re: Use of Extension Cord |
|
|
On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 18:42:48 -0000, Michael A. Terrel
<mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote
| Quote: | Peter Hucker wrote
Hmmmm. Taking this house as an example, I've got
30 amp x2 for outlets
5 amp x2 for lights
15 amp for the water heater
15 amp for the garage
15 amp for the shower
1 spare slot
Total is currently at 80 amps. The electricity boards fuse is als
80 amps. I can do what the hell I like in MY fusebox (it's none o |
their business), but I'm not allowed to fiddle with the meter (the
really don't like people getting free power) or the 80 amp fuse whic
is on their side of the meter. If I added loads more circuits, it'
no problem, but if I go over 80 amps at any time and blow their fuse
they would charge me to come out and replace it
| Quote: |
Gee, over here the watt-hour meter is connected first, followed b
the service disconnect breaker that is used to protect everythin
downstream, and to provide a easy way to disconnect all power in a
emergency
If I needed to disconnect everything, I'd use the main switch on th |
fusebox. I don't suppose it really matters if the fuse is before of
after the meter, as if the house overloads the total limit, the fus
will blow and protect the meter either way. The only difference
being if the meter shorted out it wouldn't cause a problem, and i
they need to change or repair the meter, they can simply pull th
fuse
My old neighbours house was old and had wiring added to it as a
afterthought (the house was presumably built before electricity!)
The wire came in overhead(!) into the eaves of his roof. Anyway th
wire's attachment to the roof came detached, and with the wir
swinging in the wind, something came loose inside his roof. In th
middle of the night I heard the transformer on the pole over the roa
sparking like mad. Shortly afterwards there was smoke and the soun
of breaking glass, followed quickly by the neighbours running out o
the house. Apparently a fire had started in his roof, smashed th
glass in the attic window, which woke them. So he called the fir
brigade who arrived promptly, and did absolutely nothing. That'
right nothing. They didn't have the key to turn off the power on th
transformer pole (tsalk about incompetant). They had to wait an hou
(!) for the electricity board to come out and disconnect it befor
they could put the fire out. By which point,
needless to say, there was not much left of his house! If that ha
been my house I would have been up there cutting that stupid wir
with a pair of shears, but I think he saw it as a good excuse t
claim on the insurance. His house looked a hell of a lot bette
after he got a big payout! I told him to sue the fire brigade, h
told me he didn't care as long as the insurance paid out. They coul
sue if they liked
| Quote: | My meter and main service panel are on a pole by m
driveway, with underground feeds to three buildings
I can't say I'd like just anyone to have the ability to switch off th |
power to my house
| Quote: | The garage ha
it's own 100 amp 240 Volt panel with 12 breaker positions, the too
she
has a 20 amp 240 volt panel with four breaker positions and the mai
house has a 150 Amp 240 Volt panel with 20 breaker positions. Th
cottage has two breaker boxes. One for the hot water heater that i
i
an attached she
Your hot water is heated in another building |
| Quote: | and another 60 Amp 240V breaker box with 4 breake
positions for the lights and AC. There are nine breaker boxes al
together, and I don't need to list them all. One more will be adde
when I can finally afford a new generator with an automatic transfe
switch
Christ almighty. You could power NASA with that lot |
| Quote: | It doesn't make sense to me. Why not charge the correct price i
the first place? Our companies simply change the rates every s |
often
| Quote: |
The price is set by the government, and is changed avery coupl
years. The fuel costs change daily and are averaged out for th
mont
and added on. The other method is to set the rate higher than i
should
be, and then when the actual costs exceed the limit to raise them a
fixed percentage which doesn't reflect the actual costs as well.
That's weird. Why are the government setting anything? |
--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com
| |
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