| Author |
Message |
John Fields
Guest
|
 Posted:
Sun Nov 20, 2005 5:35 pm Post subject:
Re: Use of Extension Cord |
|
|
On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 22:28:45 -0000, "Peter Hucker" <no@spam.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 21:59:30 -0000, John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:
On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 17:50:44 -0000, "Peter Hucker" <no@spam.com
wrote:
Am I to assume here that US electrical cords are terrible compared to UK ones? All UK extension cords are rated at 13 amps (for 3kW devices) and have a 13 amp fuse in the plug so you cannot overload them. I assume in the US this would be 26 amps (ouch! THICK wire!).
---
In the US we have a variety of extension cords available, the
variety encompassing choices in both both wire size (AWG, BTW) and
length.
As such, we can choose what we need without being forced to buy an
extension cord with more copper in it than we need
Myself, and everyone I know, do not buy an extension cord then use it for one purpose for the rest of its life. They get moved around. You cannot predict what you will want to plug into it in the future. And they are so cheap you may aswell get the 13 amp ones.
|
---
That's just foolish. If I need a ten foot extension cord for a
floor lamp burning a 100 watt light bulb I certainly wouldn't need,
or want, a 13 amp monster with a fuse in it when #18 zip cord and a
15 amp breaker in the service panel would be perfectly fine for my
use.
---
| Quote: | and a fuse which,
at 13 amperes, will be largely useless except in the case of a gross
short at the load end of the cord.
It's not useless at all. It prevents the extension cord from overheating, that's what the fuse is for. The fuse in the equipment's plug stops its cable catching fire. To put a fuse of the full capacity of the wall outlet off in the fusebox is stupid, because you will most likely plug a device into that outlet with a low power consumption and a thin cord, which is now not protected.
|
---
By the same token, if I plugged my 100 watt lamp into the wall with
your 13 amp fused monster extension cord, the thin wire in the lamp
won't be protected and could easily set fire to something if, for
some reason, 13 amperes was was allowed to flow through it for an
extended period of time. If you want _real_ protection, fuse the
lamp.
---
| Quote: |
Here, in the US, we've opted for a circuit breaker in the service
panel which can be reset in case of an overload instead of a
sacrificial fuse in the extension cord which _must_ be replaced if
the extension cord is to be brought back to life.
Makes more sense to me...
Yes more modern houses here have circuit breakers instead of fuses in the fusebox, and people who are obsessed with safety, I just have fuses.
My point is the circuit breaker or fusebox fuse doesn't know what an overload is. It breaks at the rating of the outlet, not the appliance and it's cord.
|
---
And your 13A extension cord does essentially the same thing when
supplying a low-amperage appliance with a 13A supply.
---
| Quote: | Check house insurance. Although the insurance company might
deem that kind of cause 'negligence' by the policy !
I don't think I've ever read any instructions, fineprint, terms and conditions, or policies in my life. I have more important and/or more interesting things to do with my time!
Like posting about your ignorance?
Ignorance of what?
|
---
What does your smug: "I don't think I've ever read any instructions,
fineprint, terms and conditions, or policies in my life. I have
more important and/or more interesting things to do with my time!"
sound like?
---
| Quote: | Ignorance of
How dangerous American electrical systems are?
They are more or less exactly how we used to do things. Now it's illegal here.
|
---
All that means is that you've taken a step "forward" into more
dangerous territory. We still have 240 V coming into every
household for use by high-power appliances (A/C, clothes dryers,
water heaters, electric ranges, and the like, but we also have the
transformer secondary's center tap coming in as well. That allows
us to use a much safer 120V for all our other needs. It's also
cheaper to make smaller appliances that run on 120V since, for
example, 120V transformer primaries need only be wound with half the
number of turns as a 240V transformer for the same output voltage.
---
| Quote: | Another mistake can be plugging too many devices into the one extension
cord, not of adequate rating/size to carry the total amount of electric
current!
Er..... FUSE anyone? Don't tell me they have unfused extension cords in the US? And I thought you chose 110 volts for SAFETY......
---
Whatever the reason, I can guarantee that if you pinch across your
240 mains with both hands at the load end of your fused extension
cord and you take a hit across your chest and I do the same at the
end of my 120V unfused extension cord I'll have a better chance of
surviving the hit than you will.
Because you have circuit breakers. We do too. I don't as it's an old house and I haven't changed them. This has absolutely nothing to do with whether the extension cord is fused or not. If I removed the extension cord fuse, I would be no more likely to survive.
|
---
You don't have much of an attention span, do you?
You broached the subject of our choosing 120V for reasons of safety,
and I was pointing out that whether we did or not, 120V is
_inherently_ safer than 240V. The extension cord, circuit breaker
and all the rest of it have nothing to do with it, since the fact
remains that a 240V hit is harder than a 120V hit. Four times
harder for the same body resistance and same contact time if you
consider the power being dissipated in the body. Also, 240V will
cause much more violent muscle contraction, leading to the greater
likelihood of secondary injury.
---
| Quote: | All seems rather too obvious to ask? But I've seen some horrors!
I've been electrocuted 6 times at proper mains voltage (240, not your pansy 110), and I'm still alive.
---
Once should have been enough to keep the other five from happening
so, more than likely, there's a Darwin Award in your future...
Electrocution occurs when you have a weak heart.
|
---
No, electroction occurs when you are shocked to death as was pointed
out by another poster.
It's also entirely possible to have a fine heart but to die from
fibrillation caused by even a moderately weak shock.
---
| Quote: | In fact statistics show that most injuries and deaths occuring from electrocution occur due to >secondary accidents.
|
---
Then the cause of death wasn't electrocution.
---
Electric drill electrocutes you and you fall off your ladder, etc.
---
In that case the cause of death (if you weren't dead before you hit
the ground was a broken neck, a concussion, whatever. But _not_
electrocution.
To belabor a point, since being shocked by 240V is a much more
physically dramatic event than being shocked by 120V, it's much more
likely that you'll be thrown off the ladder by a 240V drill than by
a 120V one, which bring us back to the _fact_ that 120V is safer
than 240V.
--
John Fields
Professional Circuit Designer
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Peter Hucker
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Nov 20, 2005 5:35 pm Post subject:
Re: Use of Extension Cord |
|
|
On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 14:10:16 -0000, John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:
| Quote: | On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 22:28:45 -0000, "Peter Hucker" <no@spam.com
wrote:
On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 21:59:30 -0000, John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:
On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 17:50:44 -0000, "Peter Hucker" <no@spam.com
wrote:
Am I to assume here that US electrical cords are terrible compared to UK ones? All UK extension cords are rated at 13 amps (for 3kW devices) and have a 13 amp fuse in the plug so you cannot overload them. I assume in the US this would be 26 amps (ouch! THICK wire!).
---
In the US we have a variety of extension cords available, the
variety encompassing choices in both both wire size (AWG, BTW) and
length.
As such, we can choose what we need without being forced to buy an
extension cord with more copper in it than we need
Myself, and everyone I know, do not buy an extension cord then use it for one purpose for the rest of its life. They get moved around. You cannot predict what you will want to plug into it in the future. And they are so cheap you may aswell get the 13 amp ones.
---
That's just foolish. If I need a ten foot extension cord for a
floor lamp burning a 100 watt light bulb I certainly wouldn't need,
or want, a 13 amp monster with a fuse in it when #18 zip cord and a
15 amp breaker in the service panel would be perfectly fine for my
use.
|
And your lamp would stay there forever would it? And you'd never want to plug something else in next to the lamp? Do you never move anything around in your house?
Besides, what you stated above is not safe - you have a FIFTEEN amp breaker for a ONE amp bulb?!?!? An how many amps can a #18 cord take?
| Quote: | and a fuse which,
at 13 amperes, will be largely useless except in the case of a gross
short at the load end of the cord.
It's not useless at all. It prevents the extension cord from overheating, that's what the fuse is for. The fuse in the equipment's plug stops its cable catching fire. To put a fuse of the full capacity of the wall outlet off in the fusebox is stupid, because you will most likely plug a device into that outlet with a low power consumption and a thin cord, which is now not protected.
---
By the same token, if I plugged my 100 watt lamp into the wall with
your 13 amp fused monster extension cord, the thin wire in the lamp
won't be protected and could easily set fire to something if, for
some reason, 13 amperes was was allowed to flow through it for an
extended period of time. If you want _real_ protection, fuse the
lamp.
|
Of course the lamp is fused. All UK mains plugs have fuses, by LAW.
| Quote: | Here, in the US, we've opted for a circuit breaker in the service
panel which can be reset in case of an overload instead of a
sacrificial fuse in the extension cord which _must_ be replaced if
the extension cord is to be brought back to life.
Makes more sense to me...
Yes more modern houses here have circuit breakers instead of fuses in the fusebox, and people who are obsessed with safety, I just have fuses.
My point is the circuit breaker or fusebox fuse doesn't know what an overload is. It breaks at the rating of the outlet, not the appliance and it's cord.
---
And your 13A extension cord does essentially the same thing when
supplying a low-amperage appliance with a 13A supply.
|
Adding a 13A extension cord does not remove any protection which is already there by plugging the appliance in without an extension. The 13A fuse in the extension cord stops you plugging two 13A appliances into the end of it and melting the extension cord.
| Quote: | Check house insurance. Although the insurance company might
deem that kind of cause 'negligence' by the policy !
I don't think I've ever read any instructions, fineprint, terms and conditions, or policies in my life. I have more important and/or more interesting things to do with my time!
Like posting about your ignorance?
Ignorance of what?
---
What does your smug: "I don't think I've ever read any instructions,
fineprint, terms and conditions, or policies in my life. I have
more important and/or more interesting things to do with my time!"
sound like?
|
It sounds like I realise they are a waste of time. Instructions are for people who don't have a clue how something works. The other things I listed are of no interest to anyone but a parasitical scumbag (you may know them as lawyers). In fact normal people can't understand them anyway - I once saw an agreement which contained ONE single sentence spanning the whole A4 (letter size to you) sheet of paper! Lawyers need to take basic English lessons.
| Quote: | Ignorance of
How dangerous American electrical systems are?
They are more or less exactly how we used to do things. Now it's illegal here.
---
All that means is that you've taken a step "forward" into more
dangerous territory. We still have 240 V coming into every
household for use by high-power appliances (A/C, clothes dryers,
water heaters, electric ranges, and the like, but we also have the
transformer secondary's center tap coming in as well. That allows
us to use a much safer 120V for all our other needs. It's also
cheaper to make smaller appliances that run on 120V since, for
example, 120V transformer primaries need only be wound with half the
number of turns as a 240V transformer for the same output voltage.
|
I wasn't talking about voltage. I was talking about your location of fuses, see above.
But since we're on voltage, it's a lot more convenient to have every outlet the same, I can plug anything into any socket.
Just a minute, does that mean you can use a 240V appliance you bought over here when you go back to the US? I thought you were 110V only.
| Quote: | Another mistake can be plugging too many devices into the one extension
cord, not of adequate rating/size to carry the total amount of electric
current!
Er..... FUSE anyone? Don't tell me they have unfused extension cords in the US? And I thought you chose 110 volts for SAFETY......
---
Whatever the reason, I can guarantee that if you pinch across your
240 mains with both hands at the load end of your fused extension
cord and you take a hit across your chest and I do the same at the
end of my 120V unfused extension cord I'll have a better chance of
surviving the hit than you will.
Because you have circuit breakers. We do too. I don't as it's an old house and I haven't changed them. This has absolutely nothing to do with whether the extension cord is fused or not. If I removed the extension cord fuse, I would be no more likely to survive.
---
You don't have much of an attention span, do you?
You broached the subject of our choosing 120V for reasons of safety,
and I was pointing out that whether we did or not, 120V is
_inherently_ safer than 240V. The extension cord, circuit breaker
and all the rest of it have nothing to do with it, since the fact
remains that a 240V hit is harder than a 120V hit. Four times
harder for the same body resistance and same contact time if you
consider the power being dissipated in the body. Also, 240V will
cause much more violent muscle contraction, leading to the greater
likelihood of secondary injury.
|
The reason I mentioned the fuse is thatyou did - "end of your fused extension cord".
Anyway 240V may be more dangerous, but we can have much thinner cables. And it ain't as dangerous as you make out anyway.
| Quote: | All seems rather too obvious to ask? But I've seen some horrors!
I've been electrocuted 6 times at proper mains voltage (240, not your pansy 110), and I'm still alive.
---
Once should have been enough to keep the other five from happening
so, more than likely, there's a Darwin Award in your future...
Electrocution occurs when you have a weak heart.
---
No, electroction occurs when you are shocked to death as was pointed
out by another poster.
It's also entirely possible to have a fine heart but to die from
fibrillation caused by even a moderately weak shock.
|
Just doesn't happen. Are you suggesting I have an unusually strong heart?
| Quote: | In fact statistics show that most injuries and deaths occuring from electrocution occur due to >secondary accidents.
---
Then the cause of death wasn't electrocution.
|
Read the link I posted to the other pedant.
| Quote: | Electric drill electrocutes you and you fall off your ladder, etc.
---
In that case the cause of death (if you weren't dead before you hit
the ground was a broken neck, a concussion, whatever. But _not_
electrocution.
|
The CAUSE of death was a faulty appliance.
If I pushed you off a ladder and you broke your neck, you seem to be saying it wouldn't be called murder.
| Quote: | To belabor a point, since being shocked by 240V is a much more
physically dramatic event than being shocked by 120V, it's much more
likely that you'll be thrown off the ladder by a 240V drill than by
a 120V one, which bring us back to the _fact_ that 120V is safer
than 240V.
|
Who uses corded drills anyway?
--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com
If you're cross-eyed and have dyslexia, can you read all right? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
John Fields
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Nov 20, 2005 5:35 pm Post subject:
Re: Use of Extension Cord |
|
|
On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 14:57:48 -0000, "Peter Hucker" <no@spam.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 14:10:16 -0000, John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:
On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 22:28:45 -0000, "Peter Hucker" <no@spam.com
wrote:
On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 21:59:30 -0000, John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:
On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 17:50:44 -0000, "Peter Hucker" <no@spam.com
wrote:
Am I to assume here that US electrical cords are terrible compared to UK ones? All UK extension cords are rated at 13 amps (for 3kW devices) and have a 13 amp fuse in the plug so you cannot overload them. I assume in the US this would be 26 amps (ouch! THICK wire!).
---
In the US we have a variety of extension cords available, the
variety encompassing choices in both both wire size (AWG, BTW) and
length.
As such, we can choose what we need without being forced to buy an
extension cord with more copper in it than we need
Myself, and everyone I know, do not buy an extension cord then use it for one purpose for the rest of its life. They get moved around. You cannot predict what you will want to plug into it in the future. And they are so cheap you may aswell get the 13 amp ones.
---
That's just foolish. If I need a ten foot extension cord for a
floor lamp burning a 100 watt light bulb I certainly wouldn't need,
or want, a 13 amp monster with a fuse in it when #18 zip cord and a
15 amp breaker in the service panel would be perfectly fine for my
use.
And your lamp would stay there forever would it? And you'd never want to plug something else in next to the lamp? Do you never move anything around in your house?
|
---
Neither of those is to the point, which is that an extension cord
with a 13 amp fuse in it is very nearly the same as an outlet with a
15 amp breaker in the service panel.
---
| Quote: | Besides, what you stated above is not safe - you have a FIFTEEN amp breaker for a ONE amp bulb?!?!?
|
---
And a THIRTEEN amp fuse for a ONE amp bulb _is_ safe?
---
| Quote: | An how many amps can a #18 cord take?
|
---
#18 has a resistance of 6.385 milliohms per foot, so with 15 amps
flowing through it it'll drop:
E = IR = 15A * 0.006385 ohms = 0.0957V ~ 0.1V
per foot, and the power it'll dissipate will be
P = IE = 15A * 0.1V = 1.5 watt per foot,
hardly anything to get worried about, especially with thin
insulation.
---
| Quote: | and a fuse which,
at 13 amperes, will be largely useless except in the case of a gross
short at the load end of the cord.
It's not useless at all. It prevents the extension cord from overheating, that's what the fuse is for. The fuse in the equipment's plug stops its cable catching fire. To put a fuse of the full capacity of the wall outlet off in the fusebox is stupid, because you will most likely plug a device into that outlet with a low power consumption and a thin cord, which is now not protected.
---
By the same token, if I plugged my 100 watt lamp into the wall with
your 13 amp fused monster extension cord, the thin wire in the lamp
won't be protected and could easily set fire to something if, for
some reason, 13 amperes was was allowed to flow through it for an
extended period of time. If you want _real_ protection, fuse the
lamp.
Of course the lamp is fused. All UK mains plugs have fuses, by LAW.
|
---
None of ours do, so I guess you're the pansies after all.
---
| Quote: | Here, in the US, we've opted for a circuit breaker in the service
panel which can be reset in case of an overload instead of a
sacrificial fuse in the extension cord which _must_ be replaced if
the extension cord is to be brought back to life.
Makes more sense to me...
Yes more modern houses here have circuit breakers instead of fuses in the fusebox, and people who are obsessed with safety, I just have fuses.
My point is the circuit breaker or fusebox fuse doesn't know what an overload is. It breaks at the rating of the outlet, not the appliance and it's cord.
---
And your 13A extension cord does essentially the same thing when
supplying a low-amperage appliance with a 13A supply.
Adding a 13A extension cord does not remove any protection which is already there by plugging the appliance in without an extension. The 13A fuse in the extension cord stops you plugging two 13A appliances into the end of it and melting the extension cord.
Check house insurance. Although the insurance company might
deem that kind of cause 'negligence' by the policy !
I don't think I've ever read any instructions, fineprint, terms and conditions, or policies in my life. I have more important and/or more interesting things to do with my time!
Like posting about your ignorance?
Ignorance of what?
---
What does your smug: "I don't think I've ever read any instructions,
fineprint, terms and conditions, or policies in my life. I have
more important and/or more interesting things to do with my time!"
sound like?
It sounds like I realise they are a waste of time. Instructions are for people who don't have a clue how something works.
|
---
It sounds to me like you're a conceited idiot. Instructions are
what you read in order to operate something properly, no matter how
much of a clue you think you might have.
---
| Quote: | Ignorance of
How dangerous American electrical systems are?
They are more or less exactly how we used to do things. Now it's illegal here.
---
All that means is that you've taken a step "forward" into more
dangerous territory. We still have 240 V coming into every
household for use by high-power appliances (A/C, clothes dryers,
water heaters, electric ranges, and the like, but we also have the
transformer secondary's center tap coming in as well. That allows
us to use a much safer 120V for all our other needs. It's also
cheaper to make smaller appliances that run on 120V since, for
example, 120V transformer primaries need only be wound with half the
number of turns as a 240V transformer for the same output voltage.
I wasn't talking about voltage. I was talking about your location of fuses, see above.
|
---
You were talking about safety, and regardless of where the fuses are
located, 120V is inherently safer that 240 in case of a shock.
---
| Quote: | But since we're on voltage, it's a lot more convenient to have every outlet the same, I can plug anything into any socket.
|
---
All our 120V sockets are the same, so so can we. Our 120V sockets
are different from out 120V sockets for obvious reasons, but they're
all the same also, so that's not a problem either.
---
| Quote: | Just a minute, does that mean you can use a 240V appliance you bought over here when you go back to the US? I thought you were 110V only.
|
---
Probably 90-95% of the US is 120/240, so yes, of course we can. The
only problem is the difference in frequency, you being on 50Hz and
us being on 60, but that often turns out not to be a problem at all.
Unfortunately for you, if you buy 120V appliances here and take them
back with you you'll be out of luck unless you buy a 2:1 transformer
to run them on.
---
| Quote: | Another mistake can be plugging too many devices into the one extension
cord, not of adequate rating/size to carry the total amount of electric
current!
Er..... FUSE anyone? Don't tell me they have unfused extension cords in the US? And I thought you chose 110 volts for SAFETY......
---
Whatever the reason, I can guarantee that if you pinch across your
240 mains with both hands at the load end of your fused extension
cord and you take a hit across your chest and I do the same at the
end of my 120V unfused extension cord I'll have a better chance of
surviving the hit than you will.
Because you have circuit breakers. We do too. I don't as it's an old house and I haven't changed them. This has absolutely nothing to do with whether the extension cord is fused or not. If I removed the extension cord fuse, I would be no more likely to survive.
---
You don't have much of an attention span, do you?
You broached the subject of our choosing 120V for reasons of safety,
and I was pointing out that whether we did or not, 120V is
_inherently_ safer than 240V. The extension cord, circuit breaker
and all the rest of it have nothing to do with it, since the fact
remains that a 240V hit is harder than a 120V hit. Four times
harder for the same body resistance and same contact time if you
consider the power being dissipated in the body. Also, 240V will
cause much more violent muscle contraction, leading to the greater
likelihood of secondary injury.
The reason I mentioned the fuse is thatyou did - "end of your fused extension cord".
|
---
What are you, a child? At this point we're discussing safety and
whether a line is fused or not makes no difference in terms of being
shocked to death. Do you think that the 13 amp fuse in the
extension cord is going to blow before you're dead if you take a hit
across your chest?
---
| Quote: | Anyway 240V may be more dangerous, but we can have much thinner cables. And it ain't as dangerous as you make out anyway.
|
---
You can have cables with smaller diameter conductors for the same
load dissipation, but you need thicker insulation.
And, it's not "may be more dangerous", it's "_is_ more dangerous",
so stop trying to trivialize the difference.
---
| Quote: | All seems rather too obvious to ask? But I've seen some horrors!
I've been electrocuted 6 times at proper mains voltage (240, not your pansy 110), and I'm still alive.
---
Once should have been enough to keep the other five from happening
so, more than likely, there's a Darwin Award in your future...
Electrocution occurs when you have a weak heart.
---
No, electroction occurs when you are shocked to death as was pointed
out by another poster.
It's also entirely possible to have a fine heart but to die from
fibrillation caused by even a moderately weak shock.
Just doesn't happen. Are you suggesting I have an unusually strong heart?
|
---
No, an unusually thick head.
---
| Quote: | In fact statistics show that most injuries and deaths occuring from electrocution occur due to >secondary accidents.
---
Then the cause of death wasn't electrocution.
Read the link I posted to the other pedant.
|
---
Why? I see that you like to play fast and loose and, when you make
a mistake, refuse to own up to it and, instead, cast aspersions on
who caught you. You're a dishonest little prick.
---
| Quote: | Electric drill electrocutes you and you fall off your ladder, etc.
---
In that case the cause of death (if you weren't dead before you hit
the ground was a broken neck, a concussion, whatever. But _not_
electrocution.
The CAUSE of death was a faulty appliance.
|
---
No, the cause of death was a broken neck.
The reason for the accident was a faulty appliance. Big difference.
---
| Quote: | If I pushed you off a ladder and you broke your neck, you seem to be saying it wouldn't be called murder.
|
---
That's a totally different situation and has nothing to do with what
we're discussing, but you inserted it in order to try to obfuscate
the fact that you were wrong. More bullshit diversionary tactics.
---
| Quote: | To belabor a point, since being shocked by 240V is a much more
physically dramatic event than being shocked by 120V, it's much more
likely that you'll be thrown off the ladder by a 240V drill than by
a 120V one, which bring us back to the _fact_ that 120V is safer
than 240V.
Who uses corded drills anyway?
|
---
More bullshit diversionary tactics.
_I_ use corded drills, outdoors, all the time and haven't been
electrocuted yet.
--
John Fields
Professional Circuit Designer
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Peter Hucker
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Nov 20, 2005 11:47 pm Post subject:
Re: Use of Extension Cord |
|
|
On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 17:02:56 -0000, John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:
| Quote: | On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 14:57:48 -0000, "Peter Hucker" <no@spam.com
wrote:
On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 14:10:16 -0000, John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:
On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 22:28:45 -0000, "Peter Hucker" <no@spam.com
wrote:
On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 21:59:30 -0000, John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:
On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 17:50:44 -0000, "Peter Hucker" <no@spam.com
wrote:
---
In the US we have a variety of extension cords available, the
variety encompassing choices in both both wire size (AWG, BTW) and
length.
As such, we can choose what we need without being forced to buy an
extension cord with more copper in it than we need
Myself, and everyone I know, do not buy an extension cord then use it for one purpose for the rest of its life. They get moved around. You cannot predict what you will want to plug into it in the future. And they are so cheap you may aswell get the 13 amp ones.
---
That's just foolish. If I need a ten foot extension cord for a
floor lamp burning a 100 watt light bulb I certainly wouldn't need,
or want, a 13 amp monster with a fuse in it when #18 zip cord and a
15 amp breaker in the service panel would be perfectly fine for my
use.
And your lamp would stay there forever would it? And you'd never want to plug something else in next to the lamp? Do you never move anything around in your house?
---
Neither of those is to the point, which is that an extension cord
with a 13 amp fuse in it is very nearly the same as an outlet with a
15 amp breaker in the service panel.
---
Besides, what you stated above is not safe - you have a FIFTEEN amp breaker for a ONE amp bulb?!?!?
---
And a THIRTEEN amp fuse for a ONE amp bulb _is_ safe?
|
You're missing the point completely. The 13 amp fuse in the extension cord is NOT to protect things you plug into it. These should already be protected by the fuses in their own plugs. The 13 amp fuse in the extension cord is to protect the extension cord from being overloaded, by a total of more than 13 amps worth of devices being plugged into the end of it.
Just as your fused outlet does NOT protect the appliance you plug into it, as the appliance (and it's cord) are most likely of a lower current rating than the outlet. The fuse is to protect the OUTLET from being overlaoded.
| Quote: | An how many amps can a #18 cord take?
---
#18 has a resistance of 6.385 milliohms per foot, so with 15 amps
flowing through it it'll drop:
E = IR = 15A * 0.006385 ohms = 0.0957V ~ 0.1V
per foot, and the power it'll dissipate will be
P = IE = 15A * 0.1V = 1.5 watt per foot,
hardly anything to get worried about, especially with thin
insulation.
|
So you have just told me that a #18 cord will happily take 15 amps. Yet earlier you compared it to a "13A monster" as though the 13A one was overkill?
| Quote: | and a fuse which,
at 13 amperes, will be largely useless except in the case of a gross
short at the load end of the cord.
It's not useless at all. It prevents the extension cord from overheating, that's what the fuse is for. The fuse in the equipment's plug stops its cable catching fire. To put a fuse of the full capacity of the wall outlet off in the fusebox is stupid, because you will most likely plug a device into that outlet with a low power consumption and a thin cord, which is now not protected.
---
By the same token, if I plugged my 100 watt lamp into the wall with
your 13 amp fused monster extension cord, the thin wire in the lamp
won't be protected and could easily set fire to something if, for
some reason, 13 amperes was was allowed to flow through it for an
extended period of time. If you want _real_ protection, fuse the
lamp.
Of course the lamp is fused. All UK mains plugs have fuses, by LAW.
---
None of ours do, so I guess you're the pansies after all.
|
When I said pansies I was referring to electric shocks. I don't wish my house to burn down and cause me financial losses when I am not at home to operate the extinguisher.
| Quote: | Like posting about your ignorance?
Ignorance of what?
---
What does your smug: "I don't think I've ever read any instructions,
fineprint, terms and conditions, or policies in my life. I have
more important and/or more interesting things to do with my time!"
sound like?
It sounds like I realise they are a waste of time. Instructions are for people who don't have a clue how something works.
---
It sounds to me like you're a conceited idiot. Instructions are
what you read in order to operate something properly, no matter how
much of a clue you think you might have.
|
No, the instructions are read if you don't know how to use the device.
| Quote: | Ignorance of
How dangerous American electrical systems are?
They are more or less exactly how we used to do things. Now it's illegal here.
---
All that means is that you've taken a step "forward" into more
dangerous territory. We still have 240 V coming into every
household for use by high-power appliances (A/C, clothes dryers,
water heaters, electric ranges, and the like, but we also have the
transformer secondary's center tap coming in as well. That allows
us to use a much safer 120V for all our other needs. It's also
cheaper to make smaller appliances that run on 120V since, for
example, 120V transformer primaries need only be wound with half the
number of turns as a 240V transformer for the same output voltage.
I wasn't talking about voltage. I was talking about your location of fuses, see above.
---
You were talking about safety, and regardless of where the fuses are
located, 120V is inherently safer that 240 in case of a shock.
|
But you have a mixture of different voltage and current outlets - must be highly inconvenient, aswell as providing the possibility of people plugging the wrong thing in the wrong place.
| Quote: | But since we're on voltage, it's a lot more convenient to have every outlet the same, I can plug anything into any socket.
---
All our 120V sockets are the same, so so can we. Our 120V sockets
are different from out 120V sockets for obvious reasons, but they're
all the same also, so that's not a problem either.
|
Try writing that again!
Anyway you said you had different current outlets earlier. Just what outlets do exist in US homes?
| Quote: | Just a minute, does that mean you can use a 240V appliance you bought over here when you go back to the US? I thought you were 110V only.
---
Probably 90-95% of the US is 120/240, so yes, of course we can. The
only problem is the difference in frequency, you being on 50Hz and
us being on 60, but that often turns out not to be a problem at all.
Unfortunately for you, if you buy 120V appliances here and take them
back with you you'll be out of luck unless you buy a 2:1 transformer
to run them on.
|
Yes I noticed. Someone came to me with a £300 (!) coffeemaker (he's a perfectionist with coffee) that was imported from th US and was 120 volts. The store wanted £80 for a transformer which was bigger than the coffeemaker! I got him one for £30 from ebay (ex-building site isolating transformer).
| Quote: | Whatever the reason, I can guarantee that if you pinch across your
240 mains with both hands at the load end of your fused extension
cord and you take a hit across your chest and I do the same at the
end of my 120V unfused extension cord I'll have a better chance of
surviving the hit than you will.
Because you have circuit breakers. We do too. I don't as it's an old house and I haven't changed them. This has absolutely nothing to do with whether the extension cord is fused or not. If I removed the extension cord fuse, I would be no more likely to survive.
---
You don't have much of an attention span, do you?
You broached the subject of our choosing 120V for reasons of safety,
and I was pointing out that whether we did or not, 120V is
_inherently_ safer than 240V. The extension cord, circuit breaker
and all the rest of it have nothing to do with it, since the fact
remains that a 240V hit is harder than a 120V hit. Four times
harder for the same body resistance and same contact time if you
consider the power being dissipated in the body. Also, 240V will
cause much more violent muscle contraction, leading to the greater
likelihood of secondary injury.
The reason I mentioned the fuse is thatyou did - "end of your fused extension cord".
---
What are you, a child? At this point we're discussing safety and
whether a line is fused or not makes no difference in terms of being
shocked to death. Do you think that the 13 amp fuse in the
extension cord is going to blow before you're dead if you take a hit
across your chest?
|
No, but you were wittering on about my FUSED extension cord as though the fuse would make it more dangerous.
| Quote: | Anyway 240V may be more dangerous, but we can have much thinner cables. And it ain't as dangerous as you make out anyway.
---
You can have cables with smaller diameter conductors for the same
load dissipation, but you need thicker insulation.
|
If we had a thinner insulation it would not be as resistant to getting damaged. A UK 240V mains cord most likely has enough insulation for a few kV (the flimsy ribbon cable for IDE hard drives for example is rated at 300 volts!), but if it was only just thick enough, it would get damaged through handling.
| Quote: | And, it's not "may be more dangerous", it's "_is_ more dangerous",
so stop trying to trivialize the difference.
|
It is more dangerous, but it's still trivial.
| Quote: | Once should have been enough to keep the other five from happening
so, more than likely, there's a Darwin Award in your future...
Electrocution occurs when you have a weak heart.
---
No, electroction occurs when you are shocked to death as was pointed
out by another poster.
It's also entirely possible to have a fine heart but to die from
fibrillation caused by even a moderately weak shock.
Just doesn't happen. Are you suggesting I have an unusually strong heart?
---
No, an unusually thick head.
|
That wouldn't stop my heart getting knackered.
| Quote: | In fact statistics show that most injuries and deaths occuring from electrocution occur due to >secondary accidents.
---
Then the cause of death wasn't electrocution.
Read the link I posted to the other pedant.
---
Why? I see that you like to play fast and loose and, when you make
a mistake, refuse to own up to it and, instead, cast aspersions on
who caught you. You're a dishonest little prick.
|
You don't get it at all do you? You're a pedant. Go look it up and learn something.
| Quote: | Electric drill electrocutes you and you fall off your ladder, etc.
---
In that case the cause of death (if you weren't dead before you hit
the ground was a broken neck, a concussion, whatever. But _not_
electrocution.
The CAUSE of death was a faulty appliance.
---
No, the cause of death was a broken neck.
The reason for the accident was a faulty appliance. Big difference.
|
This is like talking to a brick wall. You don't get it at all do you? You're a pedant. Go look it up and learn something.
| Quote: | If I pushed you off a ladder and you broke your neck, you seem to be saying it wouldn't be called murder.
---
That's a totally different situation and has nothing to do with what
we're discussing, but you inserted it in order to try to obfuscate
the fact that you were wrong. More bullshit diversionary tactics.
|
Too complicated for you was it? Cause is what makes the thing happen. The cause in the murder case is me. The cause in the drill case is the faulty drill.
| Quote: | To belabor a point, since being shocked by 240V is a much more
physically dramatic event than being shocked by 120V, it's much more
likely that you'll be thrown off the ladder by a 240V drill than by
a 120V one, which bring us back to the _fact_ that 120V is safer
than 240V.
Who uses corded drills anyway?
---
More bullshit diversionary tactics.
|
No, a simple question, as they are inconvenient. Any appliance which requires you to climb or move around a lot is a hell of a lot easier to use if it's cordless.
| Quote: | _I_ use corded drills, outdoors, all the time and haven't been
electrocuted yet.
|
I can use my cordless drill in the rain.
--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com
Bumper sticker seen on a B-2 Stealth Bomber:
"IF YOU CAN READ THIS, THEN WE WASTED 50 BILLION BUCKS." |
|
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|
|
Big Mouth Billy Bass
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:35 am Post subject:
Re: Use of Extension Cord |
|
|
On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 18:34:33 GMT, via
<ZeKff.2099$wf.1280@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>, "Ralph Mowery"
<rmowery28146@earthlink.net> spake thusly:
| Quote: | some are even 2
conductors without the ground.
|
That's a very common extension cord, and the most likely reason
consumers are advised against using them. It is, again, very common
for consumers to bypass safety grounds in their use of 'lektrizdy. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Big Mouth Billy Bass
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:35 am Post subject:
Re: Use of Extension Cord |
|
|
On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 17:50:44 -0000, via
<op.s0h06uwxwabk2w@blue.mshome.net>, "Peter Hucker" <no@spam.com>
spake thusly:
| Quote: | I've been electrocuted 6 times at proper mains voltage (240, not your pansy 110), and I'm still alive.
|
Does "electrocute" mean something other than "to cause death with an
electric shock" in your corner of the English speaking world? The
etymology of the word is "to execute by use of electricity." Very few
references allow for the word to also apply to severe injury. Perhaps
you are a cat, and have three lives left? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Big Mouth Billy Bass
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:35 am Post subject:
Re: Use of Extension Cord |
|
|
On 19 Nov 2005 21:25:40 -0800, via
<1132464340.190007.178930@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
littleboyblu87@yahoo.com spake thusly:
| Quote: | I don't see what the problem would be with using a regular extension
cord with a vcr, tv, or cordless telephone since they're often located
in areas of a room where the cord is not exposed. One of my problems is
that my tv, vcr, and cable box can only be put in one area of the room
and there is only one outlet there. This means that I can only plug in
the tv and cable box. Where am I supposed to plug in the vcr at? That's
why I need an extension cord. But of course, the manual says not to use
it (and the same thing for the cordless telephone).
|
The best thing to do is to buy a switched outlet strip with a 15 amp
circuit breaker. By design, it will likely also include some minimal
surge suppression. The typical extension cord is not meant for
permanent applications. Too wimpy; too subject to abuse by overload. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Peter Hucker
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:35 am Post subject:
Re: Use of Extension Cord |
|
|
On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 22:17:00 -0000, Big Mouth Billy Bass <nannerbac@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 17:50:44 -0000, via
op.s0h06uwxwabk2w@blue.mshome.net>, "Peter Hucker" <no@spam.com
spake thusly:
I've been electrocuted 6 times at proper mains voltage (240, not your pansy 110), and I'm still alive.
Does "electrocute" mean something other than "to cause death with an
electric shock" in your corner of the English speaking world? The
etymology of the word is "to execute by use of electricity." Very few
references allow for the word to also apply to severe injury. Perhaps
you are a cat, and have three lives left?
|
Another pedant. I, and almost everyone I've ever met who has spoken about electricity, uses "electrocute" as a synonym for "electric shock". Here's a clue for you - not everyone speaks like they've swallowed a dictionary.
--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com
Someday we'll look back on all this and plough into a parked car. |
|
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|
|
Peter Bennett
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:35 am Post subject:
Re: Use of Extension Cord |
|
|
On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 17:47:20 -0000, "Peter Hucker" <no@spam.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 17:02:56 -0000, John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:
---
All our 120V sockets are the same, so so can we. Our 120V sockets
are different from out 120V sockets for obvious reasons, but they're
all the same also, so that's not a problem either.
Try writing that again!
|
I suspect he meant to say "Our 120 V sockets are different from our
240 V sockets"
| Quote: |
Anyway you said you had different current outlets earlier. Just what outlets do exist in US homes?
|
Almost all outlets in US and Canadian homes and offices are 120 volt.
In older construction, they would be protected by 15 amp breakers in
the distribution panel, but 20 amp is more common now. A single
breaker will normally feed several outlets. The same style outlets are
used for both 15 and 20 amp circuits - two parallel blades for hot and
neutral, and a "U" shaped pin for ground/earth.
240 Volt outlets are usually only provided for high power devices,
like electric stoves and clothes dryers. These outlets are different
than the 120 volt style - there is no possibility of putting a 120
volt plug in a 240 volt outlet, or vice versa.
--
Peter Bennett, VE7CEI
peterbb4 (at) interchange.ubc.ca
new newsgroup users info : http://vancouver-webpages.com/nnq
GPS and NMEA info: http://vancouver-webpages.com/peter
Vancouver Power Squadron: http://vancouver.powersquadron.ca |
|
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|
|
Big Mouth Billy Bass
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:35 am Post subject:
Re: Use of Extension Cord |
|
|
On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 23:49:48 -0000, via
<op.s0kchai1wabk2w@blue.mshome.net>, "Peter Hucker" <no@spam.com>
spake thusly:
| Quote: | On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 22:17:00 -0000, Big Mouth Billy Bass <nannerbac@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 17:50:44 -0000, via
op.s0h06uwxwabk2w@blue.mshome.net>, "Peter Hucker" <no@spam.com
spake thusly:
I've been electrocuted 6 times at proper mains voltage (240, not your pansy 110), and I'm still alive.
Does "electrocute" mean something other than "to cause death with an
electric shock" in your corner of the English speaking world? The
etymology of the word is "to execute by use of electricity." Very few
references allow for the word to also apply to severe injury. Perhaps
you are a cat, and have three lives left?
Another pedant. I, and almost everyone I've ever met who has spoken about electricity,
uses "electrocute" as a synonym for "electric shock"..
|
You've met some strange people. I've met exactly zero people who so
severely misunderstand the word.
| Quote: | Here's a clue for you - not
everyone speaks like they've swallowed a dictionary
|
OK, here's a clue for you - stalwart defense of ignorance is stupid in
the extreme. You've been twice corrected; a sensible man would accept
the corrections and be improved by the process. An ignorant man will
belittle those who attempt to educate him. Your choice.
And oh by the way, your use of the word "pedant" is also incorrect. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Peter Hucker
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:35 am Post subject:
Re: Use of Extension Cord |
|
|
On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 22:20:58 -0000, Big Mouth Billy Bass <nannerbac@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | On 19 Nov 2005 21:25:40 -0800, via
1132464340.190007.178930@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
littleboyblu87@yahoo.com spake thusly:
I don't see what the problem would be with using a regular extension
cord with a vcr, tv, or cordless telephone since they're often located
in areas of a room where the cord is not exposed. One of my problems is
that my tv, vcr, and cable box can only be put in one area of the room
and there is only one outlet there. This means that I can only plug in
the tv and cable box. Where am I supposed to plug in the vcr at? That's
why I need an extension cord. But of course, the manual says not to use
it (and the same thing for the cordless telephone).
The best thing to do is to buy a switched outlet strip with a 15 amp
circuit breaker. By design, it will likely also include some minimal
surge suppression. The typical extension cord is not meant for
permanent applications. Too wimpy; too subject to abuse by overload.
|
In the UK, I simply buy a 4 way strip for £2.99 - it's got a 13A fuse both in the plug and in the strip (they all do, or they're illegal). For a quid extra I can get one with basic surge suppression.
--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com
I go fishing; I catch nothing. I go to orgies; I catch everything. |
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|
|
Peter Hucker
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:35 am Post subject:
Re: Use of Extension Cord |
|
|
On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 22:05:51 -0000, Big Mouth Billy Bass <nannerbac@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 18:34:33 GMT, via
ZeKff.2099$wf.1280@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>, "Ralph Mowery"
rmowery28146@earthlink.net> spake thusly:
some are even 2
conductors without the ground.
That's a very common extension cord, and the most likely reason
consumers are advised against using them.
|
In the UK it would be illegal to sell such a cord.
| Quote: | It is, again, very common
for consumers to bypass safety grounds in their use of 'lektrizdy.
|
--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com
Red meat isn't bad for you. Fuzzy blue-green meat is bad for you. |
|
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|
|
Peter Hucker
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:35 am Post subject:
Re: Use of Extension Cord |
|
|
On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 00:19:46 -0000, Peter Bennett <peterbb@somewhere.invalid> wrote:
| Quote: | On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 17:47:20 -0000, "Peter Hucker" <no@spam.com
wrote:
On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 17:02:56 -0000, John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:
---
All our 120V sockets are the same, so so can we. Our 120V sockets
are different from out 120V sockets for obvious reasons, but they're
all the same also, so that's not a problem either.
Try writing that again!
I suspect he meant to say "Our 120 V sockets are different from our
240 V sockets"
Anyway you said you had different current outlets earlier. Just what outlets do exist in US homes?
Almost all outlets in US and Canadian homes and offices are 120 volt.
In older construction, they would be protected by 15 amp breakers in
the distribution panel, but 20 amp is more common now. A single
breaker will normally feed several outlets. The same style outlets are
used for both 15 and 20 amp circuits - two parallel blades for hot and
neutral, and a "U" shaped pin for ground/earth.
|
It's the mixture of 15 and 20 amp that's odd. The UK used to have this mess - 5 amp and 15 amp - but we had different sockets for each (small and large).
| Quote: | 240 Volt outlets are usually only provided for high power devices,
like electric stoves and clothes dryers. These outlets are different
than the 120 volt style - there is no possibility of putting a 120
volt plug in a 240 volt outlet, or vice versa.
|
--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com
During the weekly Lamaze class, the instructor emphasized the importance of exercise, hinting strongly that husbands need to get out and start walking with their wives.
From the back of the room one expectant father inquired, "Would it be okay if she carries a bag of golf clubs while she walks?" |
|
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|
|
Peter Hucker
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:35 am Post subject:
Re: Use of Extension Cord |
|
|
On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 00:15:24 -0000, Big Mouth Billy Bass <nannerbac@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 23:49:48 -0000, via
op.s0kchai1wabk2w@blue.mshome.net>, "Peter Hucker" <no@spam.com
spake thusly:
On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 22:17:00 -0000, Big Mouth Billy Bass <nannerbac@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 17:50:44 -0000, via
op.s0h06uwxwabk2w@blue.mshome.net>, "Peter Hucker" <no@spam.com
spake thusly:
I've been electrocuted 6 times at proper mains voltage (240, not your pansy 110), and I'm still alive.
Does "electrocute" mean something other than "to cause death with an
electric shock" in your corner of the English speaking world? The
etymology of the word is "to execute by use of electricity." Very few
references allow for the word to also apply to severe injury. Perhaps
you are a cat, and have three lives left?
Another pedant. I, and almost everyone I've ever met who has spoken about electricity,
uses "electrocute" as a synonym for "electric shock"..
You've met some strange people. I've met exactly zero people who so
severely misunderstand the word.
|
You don't get it at all do you? People are not machines. Words are not precise. And they vary vastly from place to place.
| Quote: | Here's a clue for you - not
everyone speaks like they've swallowed a dictionary
OK, here's a clue for you - stalwart defense of ignorance is stupid in
the extreme. You've been twice corrected; a sensible man would accept
the corrections and be improved by the process. An ignorant man will
belittle those who attempt to educate him. Your choice.
And oh by the way, your use of the word "pedant" is also incorrect.
|
You just shot yourself in the foot.
--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com
Three Scousers and three Mancs are travelling by train to a football match in London.
At the station, the three Mancs each buy a ticket and watch as the three Scousers buy just one ticket between them.
"How are the three of you going to travel on only one ticket?" asks one of the Mancs.
"Watch and learn," answers one of the Scousers. They all board the train. The Mancs take their respective seats but all three Scousers cram into a toilet and close the door behind them.
Shortly after the train has departed, the conductor arrives to collect the tickets. He knocks on the toilet door and says, "Ticket please."
The door opens just a crack and a single arm emerges with a ticket in hand. The conductor takes it and moves on. The Mancs are mightily impressed by this, so after the game, they decide to copy the Scousers on the return trip and save some money.
When they get to the station, they buy a single ticket for the return trip...To their astonishment; the Scousers don't buy a ticket at all!!!
"How are you going to travel without a ticket?" asks one perplexed Mancunian. Watch and learn..." says one Scouser.
When they board the train the three Mancs cram into a toilet and soon after the three Scousers pile into another nearby.
The train departs. Shortly afterwards, one of the Scousers leaves the toilet and sneaks across to the toilet where the Mancs are hiding.
He knocks on the door and says, "Ticket please..." |
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|
|
John Fields
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Nov 21, 2005 5:35 pm Post subject:
Re: Use of Extension Cord |
|
|
On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 00:00:08 -0000, "Peter Hucker" <no@spam.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 22:05:51 -0000, Big Mouth Billy Bass <nannerbac@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 18:34:33 GMT, via
ZeKff.2099$wf.1280@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>, "Ralph Mowery"
rmowery28146@earthlink.net> spake thusly:
some are even 2
conductors without the ground.
That's a very common extension cord, and the most likely reason
consumers are advised against using them.
In the UK it would be illegal to sell such a cord.
|
---
But it's not, here.
What's your point?
---
| Quote: | It is, again, very common
for consumers to bypass safety grounds in their use of 'lektrizdy.
|
--
John Fields
Professional Circuit Designer |
|
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|
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