| Author |
Message |
Michael A. Terrell
Guest
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 Posted:
Fri Dec 02, 2005 9:35 am Post subject:
Re: Use of Extension Cord |
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Peter Hucker wrote:
| Quote: |
On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 00:18:26 -0000, Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
Peter Hucker wrote:
It may be different over there, but over here they don't stick 6 year old kids in jail. And also 6 year old kids don't know right from wrong.
Here, either, but then a six year old would have trouble opening the
box in the first place. The covers have a spring loaded catch that takes
some strength to open, and they are mounterd right under the meters
which are at eye level, so a six year old would have trouble reaching
the latch.
I see.
They could still switch it off, unless thatwas padlocked too (which would defeat the purpose of having an easily accessible emergency cutoff).
They find other ways to get into trouble, and in my case i can see
the box from where I'm sitting so it would be rather foolish to even
try.
Got your uzi ready?
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Uzi? A baseball bat is more than enough to take care of some punk,
and I can take care of most of them with nothing more than my cane. I
scared the shit out of a punk who was threatening me when I showed him
my nice new "bank blade" Think of a machete with a four foot handle. I
cut a four inch thick branch out of a willow tree with one swing.
If I wanted a gun I would prefer to use my favorite military weapon,
the M-72 so I can lay down the LAW. ;-) Its too bad you can't get them
outside of the military.
| Quote: | And I was under the impression your country was more capitalist than ours.
That's why they have to have government controls! ;-)
Tell them to take control of Micro$oft!
|
You have that backwards. :(
--
?
Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
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Peter Hucker
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Dec 03, 2005 12:19 am Post subject:
Re: Use of Extension Cord |
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On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 06:24:55 -0000, Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
| Quote: | Peter Hucker wrote:
On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 00:18:26 -0000, Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
Peter Hucker wrote:
And I was under the impression your country was more capitalist than ours.
That's why they have to have government controls! ;-)
Tell them to take control of Micro$oft!
You have that backwards. :(
|
You want MS to control the government?
--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com
Why are there 5 syllables in the word "monosyllabic"? |
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Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Dec 03, 2005 9:35 am Post subject:
Re: Use of Extension Cord |
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John Fields wrote:
| Quote: | On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 14:57:48 -0000, "Peter Hucker" <no@spam.com
wrote:
On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 14:10:16 -0000, John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:
On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 22:28:45 -0000, "Peter Hucker" <no@spam.com
wrote:
On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 21:59:30 -0000, John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:
On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 17:50:44 -0000, "Peter Hucker" <no@spam.com
wrote:
Am I to assume here that US electrical cords are terrible compared to UK ones? All UK extension cords are rated at 13 amps (for 3kW devices) and have a 13 amp fuse in the plug so you cannot overload them. I assume in the US this would be 26 amps (ouch! THICK wire!).
---
In the US we have a variety of extension cords available, the
variety encompassing choices in both both wire size (AWG, BTW) and
length.
As such, we can choose what we need without being forced to buy an
extension cord with more copper in it than we need
Myself, and everyone I know, do not buy an extension cord then use it for one purpose for the rest of its life. They get moved around. You cannot predict what you will want to plug into it in the future. And they are so cheap you may aswell get the 13 amp ones.
---
That's just foolish. If I need a ten foot extension cord for a
floor lamp burning a 100 watt light bulb I certainly wouldn't need,
or want, a 13 amp monster with a fuse in it when #18 zip cord and a
15 amp breaker in the service panel would be perfectly fine for my
use.
And your lamp would stay there forever would it? And you'd never want to plug something else in next to the lamp? Do you never move anything around in your house?
---
Neither of those is to the point, which is that an extension cord
with a 13 amp fuse in it is very nearly the same as an outlet with a
15 amp breaker in the service panel.
---
Besides, what you stated above is not safe - you have a FIFTEEN amp breaker for a ONE amp bulb?!?!?
---
And a THIRTEEN amp fuse for a ONE amp bulb _is_ safe?
---
An how many amps can a #18 cord take?
---
#18 has a resistance of 6.385 milliohms per foot, so with 15 amps
flowing through it it'll drop:
E = IR = 15A * 0.006385 ohms = 0.0957V ~ 0.1V
per foot, and the power it'll dissipate will be
P = IE = 15A * 0.1V = 1.5 watt per foot,
hardly anything to get worried about, especially with thin
insulation.
---
and a fuse which,
at 13 amperes, will be largely useless except in the case of a gross
short at the load end of the cord.
It's not useless at all. It prevents the extension cord from overheating, that's what the fuse is for. The fuse in the equipment's plug stops its cable catching fire. To put a fuse of the full capacity of the wall outlet off in the fusebox is stupid, because you will most likely plug a device into that outlet with a low power consumption and a thin cord, which is now not protected.
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By the same token, if I plugged my 100 watt lamp into the wall with
your 13 amp fused monster extension cord, the thin wire in the lamp
won't be protected and could easily set fire to something if, for
some reason, 13 amperes was was allowed to flow through it for an
extended period of time. If you want _real_ protection, fuse the
lamp.
Of course the lamp is fused. All UK mains plugs have fuses, by LAW.
---
None of ours do, so I guess you're the pansies after all.
---
Here, in the US, we've opted for a circuit breaker in the service
panel which can be reset in case of an overload instead of a
sacrificial fuse in the extension cord which _must_ be replaced if
the extension cord is to be brought back to life.
Makes more sense to me...
Yes more modern houses here have circuit breakers instead of fuses in the fusebox, and people who are obsessed with safety, I just have fuses.
My point is the circuit breaker or fusebox fuse doesn't know what an overload is. It breaks at the rating of the outlet, not the appliance and it's cord.
---
And your 13A extension cord does essentially the same thing when
supplying a low-amperage appliance with a 13A supply.
Adding a 13A extension cord does not remove any protection which is already there by plugging the appliance in without an extension. The 13A fuse in the extension cord stops you plugging two 13A appliances into the end of it and melting the extension cord.
Check house insurance. Although the insurance company might
deem that kind of cause 'negligence' by the policy !
I don't think I've ever read any instructions, fineprint, terms and conditions, or policies in my life. I have more important and/or more interesting things to do with my time!
Like posting about your ignorance?
Ignorance of what?
---
What does your smug: "I don't think I've ever read any instructions,
fineprint, terms and conditions, or policies in my life. I have
more important and/or more interesting things to do with my time!"
sound like?
It sounds like I realise they are a waste of time. Instructions are for people who don't have a clue how something works.
---
It sounds to me like you're a conceited idiot. Instructions are
what you read in order to operate something properly, no matter how
much of a clue you think you might have.
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Ignorance of
How dangerous American electrical systems are?
They are more or less exactly how we used to do things. Now it's illegal here.
---
All that means is that you've taken a step "forward" into more
dangerous territory. We still have 240 V coming into every
household for use by high-power appliances (A/C, clothes dryers,
water heaters, electric ranges, and the like, but we also have the
transformer secondary's center tap coming in as well. That allows
us to use a much safer 120V for all our other needs. It's also
cheaper to make smaller appliances that run on 120V since, for
example, 120V transformer primaries need only be wound with half the
number of turns as a 240V transformer for the same output voltage.
I wasn't talking about voltage. I was talking about your location of fuses, see above.
---
You were talking about safety, and regardless of where the fuses are
located, 120V is inherently safer that 240 in case of a shock.
---
But since we're on voltage, it's a lot more convenient to have every outlet the same, I can plug anything into any socket.
---
All our 120V sockets are the same, so so can we. Our 120V sockets
are different from out 120V sockets for obvious reasons, but they're
all the same also, so that's not a problem either.
---
Just a minute, does that mean you can use a 240V appliance you bought over here when you go back to the US? I thought you were 110V only.
---
Probably 90-95% of the US is 120/240, so yes, of course we can. The
only problem is the difference in frequency, you being on 50Hz and
us being on 60, but that often turns out not to be a problem at all.
Unfortunately for you, if you buy 120V appliances here and take them
back with you you'll be out of luck unless you buy a 2:1 transformer
to run them on.
---
Another mistake can be plugging too many devices into the one extension
cord, not of adequate rating/size to carry the total amount of electric
current!
Er..... FUSE anyone? Don't tell me they have unfused extension cords in the US? And I thought you chose 110 volts for SAFETY......
---
Whatever the reason, I can guarantee that if you pinch across your
240 mains with both hands at the load end of your fused extension
cord and you take a hit across your chest and I do the same at the
end of my 120V unfused extension cord I'll have a better chance of
surviving the hit than you will.
Because you have circuit breakers. We do too. I don't as it's an old house and I haven't changed them. This has absolutely nothing to do with whether the extension cord is fused or not. If I removed the extension cord fuse, I would be no more likely to survive.
---
You don't have much of an attention span, do you?
You broached the subject of our choosing 120V for reasons of safety,
and I was pointing out that whether we did or not, 120V is
_inherently_ safer than 240V. The extension cord, circuit breaker
and all the rest of it have nothing to do with it, since the fact
remains that a 240V hit is harder than a 120V hit. Four times
harder for the same body resistance and same contact time if you
consider the power being dissipated in the body. Also, 240V will
cause much more violent muscle contraction, leading to the greater
likelihood of secondary injury.
The reason I mentioned the fuse is thatyou did - "end of your fused extension cord".
---
What are you, a child? At this point we're discussing safety and
whether a line is fused or not makes no difference in terms of being
shocked to death. Do you think that the 13 amp fuse in the
extension cord is going to blow before you're dead if you take a hit
across your chest?
---
Anyway 240V may be more dangerous, but we can have much thinner cables. And it ain't as dangerous as you make out anyway.
---
You can have cables with smaller diameter conductors for the same
load dissipation, but you need thicker insulation.
And, it's not "may be more dangerous", it's "_is_ more dangerous",
so stop trying to trivialize the difference.
---
All seems rather too obvious to ask? But I've seen some horrors!
I've been electrocuted 6 times at proper mains voltage (240, not your pansy 110), and I'm still alive.
---
Once should have been enough to keep the other five from happening
so, more than likely, there's a Darwin Award in your future...
Electrocution occurs when you have a weak heart.
---
No, electroction occurs when you are shocked to death as was pointed
out by another poster.
It's also entirely possible to have a fine heart but to die from
fibrillation caused by even a moderately weak shock.
Just doesn't happen. Are you suggesting I have an unusually strong heart?
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No, an unusually thick head.
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In fact statistics show that most injuries and deaths occuring from electrocution occur due to >secondary accidents.
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Then the cause of death wasn't electrocution.
Read the link I posted to the other pedant.
---
Why? I see that you like to play fast and loose and, when you make
a mistake, refuse to own up to it and, instead, cast aspersions on
who caught you. You're a dishonest little prick.
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Electric drill electrocutes you and you fall off your ladder, etc.
---
In that case the cause of death (if you weren't dead before you hit
the ground was a broken neck, a concussion, whatever. But _not_
electrocution.
The CAUSE of death was a faulty appliance.
---
No, the cause of death was a broken neck.
The reason for the accident was a faulty appliance. Big difference.
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If I pushed you off a ladder and you broke your neck, you seem to be saying it wouldn't be called murder.
---
That's a totally different situation and has nothing to do with what
we're discussing, but you inserted it in order to try to obfuscate
the fact that you were wrong. More bullshit diversionary tactics.
---
To belabor a point, since being shocked by 240V is a much more
physically dramatic event than being shocked by 120V, it's much more
likely that you'll be thrown off the ladder by a 240V drill than by
a 120V one, which bring us back to the _fact_ that 120V is safer
than 240V.
Who uses corded drills anyway?
---
More bullshit diversionary tactics.
_I_ use corded drills, outdoors, all the time and haven't been
electrocuted yet.
--
John Fields
Professional Circuit Designer
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May I ask a question here? The British fused plugs, are these the 2
cylindrical prongs about 1 inch apart with a ground tab? I've never
been to England to see what is really used but is the point of that tab
to be a safety ground? The plugs I've seen on equipment from the UK
don't connect the ground first but last. Or is it NOT for safety
purposes? American 3 wire connectors have a safety ground that connects
before the power and neutral get connected.
So far I have seen nothing about GFI outlets. Are those used in the UK
like in the US? Even old houses require retrofit to GFIs in the
kitchens and bathrooms when the house gets sold ( at least in
California ). Supposedly you can toss a lamp on a GFI circuit into the
bathtub and not kill the bather though I must cofess to being chicken
to give it an actual test. Anyway, carry on the debate.
Glenn Gundlach
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Michael A. Terrell
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Dec 03, 2005 4:32 pm Post subject:
Re: Use of Extension Cord |
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Peter Hucker wrote:
| Quote: |
You want MS to control the government?
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No, but it looks like its already too late. They already have too
much influence with the governments of too many countries.
--
?
Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida |
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Peter Hucker
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Dec 04, 2005 12:51 am Post subject:
Re: Use of Extension Cord |
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On Sat, 03 Dec 2005 06:16:36 -0000, <stratus46@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | May I ask a question here? The British fused plugs, are these the 2
cylindrical prongs about 1 inch apart with a ground tab? I've never
been to England to see what is really used but is the point of that tab
to be a safety ground? The plugs I've seen on equipment from the UK
don't connect the ground first but last. Or is it NOT for safety
purposes? American 3 wire connectors have a safety ground that connects
before the power and neutral get connected.
|
I think you're referring to the German ones. From what I can remember the plugs have two round pins, and the socket has an earth pin (which I believe is a little longer so contacts first).
You can put a German plug in a UK socket by inserting a screwdriver in the earth first! (The screwdriver is referred to as the "adapter")
UK plugs have square pins - all plugs have three pins, and the earth is longer to connect first (and also to open the safety shutters in the socket covering live and neutral).
| Quote: | So far I have seen nothing about GFI outlets. Are those used in the UK
like in the US? Even old houses require retrofit to GFIs in the
kitchens and bathrooms when the house gets sold ( at least in
California ).
|
I presume GFI is similar to RCD? RCD shuts off power if there is greater than 30mA difference between live and neutral currents (i.e. 30mA is flowing through you to ground. They're in all new houses (probably by law), but there is no law to say old houses must have them, even when sold. It's up to the owner if they want to make the house safer. The outlets look the same, all that's done is to swap the fusebox for a breaker box.
| Quote: | Supposedly you can toss a lamp on a GFI circuit into the
bathtub and not kill the bather though I must cofess to being chicken
to give it an actual test. Anyway, carry on the debate.
|
Not a nice way to be discovered after death either!
--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com
Inside every older person is a younger person wondering what the fuck happened. |
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John Fields
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Dec 04, 2005 1:35 am Post subject:
Re: Use of Extension Cord |
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On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 23:44:16 -0000, "Peter Hucker" <no@spam.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 23:18:05 -0000, John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:
On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 20:48:30 -0000, "Peter Hucker" <no@spam.com
wrote:
Glutton for punishment?
---
Sure... Yours.
Ain't me gettin' beat up...
Really? I'm not the one calling me a fucking wanker every 5 minutes.
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So because you're not calling yourself a fucking wanker you're not
getting beat up? LOL, you're even stupider than I thought, and I
thought that air conditioner diatribe of yours was the icing on the
cake! Keep it up, Hucker, and I won't have to flame you at all;
you'll be doing it yourself.
---
| Quote: | Whether you know it or not, your "passing comments" are little
insults designed to elicit no response, but to be continuously
absorbed by the insultee for the purpose of allowing you to have
your way with them as time goes by.
"Whether I know it or not"??? If I don't know it then I can't be doing it can I?\
---
Sure you can, you just do it subconsciously.
Why do you have a higher opinion of my subconscious than I do?
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I don't, I just recognize it for what it is and can see it trying to
work its sneakiness, even if you can't.
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| Quote: | Now that I've alerted
you to it, though, you ought to be able to see it happening. Or
not, you don't seem to be real gifted in the "insight" department.
Or I know you're talking a load of shite.
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That's what you'd like to try to convince yourself of in order to
keep from having to look yourself in the face and come to the
realization that the load of shit is _you_!!!
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| Quote: | Your limitations are not a god's.
There is no such thing as a god. What little respect I had for you has now gone.
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Respect from a twat like you I don't need.
That's good, cause I doubt you get respect from many people.
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If most people were like you and were sneaky liars, that might be
true. Fortunately, it's not, and I'm happy with the respect I get
from people _I_ respect and care about.
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| Quote: | What's the matter? you can't understand vague?
It wasn't "vague", it was American.
---
I wrote it, I made it vague, it was vague.
You just think it was. It's your favourite word since I've been "vague".
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Hey, asshole, _you_ were the one who didn't understand it, so either
I was being vague or your mental faculties are such that you can't
understand _not_ vague. Which is it?
---
| Quote: | You mean the freedom to get shot?
---
Yeah, and _to_ shoot.
That's why we're Americanos and you're not.
You mean idiots.
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No, not at all. We know the dangers associated with being unarmed
and have built out society around being ready for nasty surprises by
guaranteeing that we can retaliate to a threat on us with deadly
force, voluntarily. If that wasn't true we'd probably have one of
y'all calling the shots.
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| Quote: | Even you have to admit that there are lunatics in America.
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"Even" I??? I'd be the _first_ to declare it, but not to _admit_
it, since having lunatics here confers no guilt on _me_.
See, that's your little subconscious at work again, trying to throw
shit on me because you want to win this little debate and you figure
that if I buy into it you'll have an easier time of it. It ain't
gonna work.
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| Quote: | There are lunatics in any country.
You can't let any old Tom Dick or Harry own a shotgun.
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Sure we can. And we do. And the lunatics know that since any old
Tom, Dick, or Harry (_not_ Tom Dick or Harry) can own a shotgun as
well, the chances are pretty good that they'll eventually be blown
away as well if they want to play that game. If they don't, oh
well... they were lunatics anyway, and they won't be sorely missed
when they're gone.
What we _don't_ do is allow just anyone to legally carry around a
concealed handgun
---
| Quote: | That is the section where you are wrong. You are not required to create any heat for an AC to work, you just MOVE the heat.
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Think of it like this:
Let's say that you have a ton of water at 20C which you want to heat
to 30C and another ton of water at 20C which you want to cool to
10C. In either case, the work done on the water will be the same,
but in order to heat it up I only have to stick a resistor in the
water and send electrical current through it. In order to cool the
water down I have to remove the same amount of energy from the water
that I used to heat the other ton of water, but I don't have a magic
resistor which cools down and absorbs heat when I run current
through it.
What I _do_ have is a system which can remove the energy from the
water and cool it down, but only at the expense of having to use
more energy to cool the water than it took to heat it.
Look at it another way:
How efficient is a heater? 100%. That is, it turns _all_ of the
energy put into it into heat.
If an A/C system is, then, less than 100% efficient, (and we all
know it is) it's less efficient than a heater. Case closed unless
you wanna fuck around some more with your jive-ass bullshit.
---
| Quote: | Then you're looking up big words on wikipedia to sound good.
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Your lack of a vocabulary puts no limitations on me.
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| Quote: | I see Americans complaining about gas costs all the time.
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And we shouldn't?
You have little to complain about.
---
From your point of view, perhaps, but being the
less-than-industrious, lazy, badly educated person you profess to be
makes what I've worked hard to accomplish unimportant to you.
What has this to do with the price of gas?
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Nothing, but as usual you miss the point, which was that we have
every right to complain _about_ the price of gas if it seems
excessive to us. You poor dinks paying $20 a gallon are in even
worse shape than we are, so it's really lucky for you that
everything there is so close.
---
| Quote: | We have Medicare and Medicaid, and we have Social Security. We can
also buy medical insurance if we're so inclined. I do. Can't you?
I don't, I rely on the NHS, it's good enough for me.
My point was what are these emergencies if you have medical insurance?
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Who knows?
I might have to fly my Lear Jet up to Nova Scotia to see the total
eclipse of the sun, or get on the road to Mandalay, where the flying
fishes play, or... who knows???
---
| Quote: | ---
Do you mean the car is "write-off"?
If you insist. There is nothing else I could have meant so your moan is moot.
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Hardly a moan, I was merely inquiring because you've professed an
affinity for vagueness and I was trying to determine whether you had
an alternate meaning in mind or whether it was just a nerror.
---
| Quote: | The next few months??? Try "the next few lifetimes".
Really? How long do you think it takes to pay of £500?
|
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Depends on the interest rate and your monthly payment.
---
| Quote: | If you have
to do debt financing behind a credit card and pay it back over an
extended period of time then you're in such deep shit you'll
probably never be able to stop treading water just to keep from
drowning.
Funny, I have several credit cards, ranging from 2.9% to 6.9% interest.
|
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Monthly, on the unpaid balance?
---
| Quote: | I don't remember telling you I think the electricity board are arseholes.
---
Are they not part of the government?
Nope. Thatcher dissolved that malarky. Now we have competition.
|
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Sure you do.
ISTR that in another post you said that all your power comes from
the same place, and that you have the choice of billing agents for
what you use.
Sounds to me like one whore with a lot of pimps.
---
| Quote: | I hate to say it, but she (if you can call that thing a woman) actually did some good.
|
---
The dichotomy there is that you don't consider her fuckable, so you
don't want to give her credit for any good she might have done since
she offends your perception of what women should be: Beautiful,
subservient, and shaggable by you.
---
| Quote: | How the private power company makes their service efficient is none of my business. I just use the cheapest one.
|
---
More bullshit.
You want to play at being knowlegeable about why your system is the
best, but when push comes to shove all you can do is bleat about how
your shepherds know what's best for you, while in the same breath
you advocate the assassination of the line which made you great in
the first place.
That's just shameful.
---
| Quote: | Same old shit. Let the crown
You mean royalty? They're just figureheads. They eat a bit of tax and I'd love to have them all assassinated, but they aren't in power.
---
Assassinated??? Are you serious?
What use do they serve? Well maybe bringing in American tourists.
|
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They're your ties to your past and all of your successes prior to
your misadventures in America, where we had to choose sides and not
only cut the umbilical cord, but fight to keep from having it be
re-attached
---
| Quote: | No, I meant the Crown. It's the attitude of subservience to
authority that's been instilled in you all for centuries that makes
you not _want_ to challenge authority. Kind of like the Japanese.
Me, not challenge authority? That's exactly the opposite of what I'm like.
|
---
And yet, you won't even measure the diameter of the conductors
feeding electricity into your domicile?
---
| Quote: | Only two things are certain in life, death and taxes!
---
Taxes don't have to be...
I know, they can be fiddled.
|
---
Then why did you say they were certain?
---
| Quote: | No, we were talking about efficiency. In other words, If my service
is wired with #0 AWG and yours is wired with #4, for the same load
at the receptacle your system will waste more energy than mine
But how much more?
|
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It doesn't matter. What we're arguing is whether my system is
inherently more efficient than yours.
A simple measurement of the diameter of the conductors leading into
your domicile would suffice to answer the question, but you seem to
want to demur for the purpose of postponing the inevitable, which is
the determination that if the diameter of the conductors bringing
electricity into your hovel is smaller than the diameter of the
conductors bringing electricity into my palace, your system is
inherently more wasteful.
---
| Quote: | Considering the transformer is visible from my lounge window.
|
---
So, since you can see it, it's more efficient?
Mine's underground, as are all of my utilities, so it runs cooler
and costs less to run.
---
| Quote: | For all I know there may be a 200 amp wire in there,
but they don't allow us to use more than 80
as that's all they have allowed for in the transformers.
---
So measure it, pussy, and stop bitching about what they won't allow
you to do.
I'm not bitching about it - I told you 80 amps is plentiful.
|
---
Sure you are, no matter what excuse you're trying to dream up as a
dispensation for what you consume. With larger diameter wire your
resistive (and inductive) losses would be less and you'd be able to
make toast in less time instead of heating up the wires leading to
the toaster, and less time is fewer kilowatt hours, and fewer
kilowatt hours to get a job done is less waste.
---
| Quote: | Which has nothing to do with efficiency, which is what we're
discussing. Point is, with wiring on your end designed to support
80A max into your house, without burning it down, and wiring on my
end designed to support 200A with the same goal in mind, my wiring
is going to have less resistance than yours and will, therefore,
waste less electricity than yours.
Your reticense to divulge the diameter of your service wiring is
not, I suggest, due to your laziness, it's because you know that if
you post what it is you won't be able to sleaze out of admitting you
were wrong and you'll have to accept the ass-kicking you've been
receiving so far.
Nope, I'll measure it.
|
---
So do it. What is it?
---
| Quote: | How much power are you using at this precise moment?
|
---
To stay alive? About 100 watts
---
| Quote: | A hell of a lot more than a watt.
So what's the point in saving a watt? Why not try saving something more?
Change a lightbulb to an energy efficient one, turn the heating down a notch, etc.
Turning off an LED on a TV set ain't gonna save the world from this so called impending doom.
|
---
Take a look at the arable area of the earth and what it takes to
keep a human alive, (about 66 watts for a 2000 calorie intake) and
divide that by the number of arable acres it takes to keep one human
alive and you'll wind up with the number of humans that this planet
can support.
---
| Quote: | No, I didn't ask you to do that. You asked _me_ to give you that
information and I replied that you already had enough information,
along with the power factor data I also supplied, to figure it out
for yourself, and you can.
Well, that is, you _should_ be able to.
Just figure out what it costs to run it, full-bore, for an hour
without it shutting off.
|
---
Idiot, I gave you line voltage, starting and running current, and
power factor.
Can't figure it out?
Figures...
--
John Fields
Professional Circuit Designer |
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Jasen Betts
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Dec 04, 2005 9:35 am Post subject:
Re: Use of Extension Cord |
|
|
On 2005-12-03, John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:
| Quote: | That is the section where you are wrong. You are not required to create any heat for an AC to work, you just MOVE the heat.
---
Think of it like this:
Let's say that you have a ton of water at 20C which you want to heat
to 30C and another ton of water at 20C which you want to cool to
10C. In either case, the work done on the water will be the same,
but in order to heat it up I only have to stick a resistor in the
water and send electrical current through it. In order to cool the
water down I have to remove the same amount of energy from the water
that I used to heat the other ton of water, but I don't have a magic
resistor which cools down and absorbs heat when I run current
through it.
What I _do_ have is a system which can remove the energy from the
water and cool it down, but only at the expense of having to use
more energy to cool the water than it took to heat it.
Look at it another way:
How efficient is a heater? 100%. That is, it turns _all_ of the
energy put into it into heat.
|
| Quote: | If an A/C system is, then, less than 100% efficient, (and we all
know it is) it's less efficient than a heater. Case closed unless
you wanna fuck around some more with your jive-ass bullshit.
|
As a heater it's close to 100 percent efficient, (some of it's output is
noise, wind, vibration etc) but there's most of the energy that goes into it
is converted to heat.
On top of that heat there's also all the heat that's
being transported by it. so that's how heating efficiencies in excess of 100%
are achieved.
Bye.
Jasen |
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Peter Hucker
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Dec 04, 2005 4:45 pm Post subject:
Re: Use of Extension Cord |
|
|
On Sat, 03 Dec 2005 23:57:24 -0000, John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:
| Quote: | On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 23:44:16 -0000, "Peter Hucker" <no@spam.com
wrote:
On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 23:18:05 -0000, John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:
On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 20:48:30 -0000, "Peter Hucker" <no@spam.com
wrote:
Glutton for punishment?
---
Sure... Yours.
Ain't me gettin' beat up...
Really? I'm not the one calling me a fucking wanker every 5 minutes.
---
So because you're not calling yourself a fucking wanker you're not
getting beat up? LOL, you're even stupider than I thought, and I
thought that air conditioner diatribe of yours was the icing on the
cake! Keep it up, Hucker, and I won't have to flame you at all;
you'll be doing it yourself.
|
Stop your pedantic precision, you just look silly.
| Quote: | Whether you know it or not, your "passing comments" are little
insults designed to elicit no response, but to be continuously
absorbed by the insultee for the purpose of allowing you to have
your way with them as time goes by.
"Whether I know it or not"??? If I don't know it then I can't be doing it can I?\
---
Sure you can, you just do it subconsciously.
Why do you have a higher opinion of my subconscious than I do?
---
I don't, I just recognize it for what it is and can see it trying to
work its sneakiness, even if you can't.
|
You can't. You are a wanna-be psychiatrist.
| Quote: | Now that I've alerted
you to it, though, you ought to be able to see it happening. Or
not, you don't seem to be real gifted in the "insight" department.
Or I know you're talking a load of shite.
---
That's what you'd like to try to convince yourself of in order to
keep from having to look yourself in the face and come to the
realization that the load of shit is _you_!!!
|
Upgrade your couch.
| Quote: | Your limitations are not a god's.
There is no such thing as a god. What little respect I had for you has now gone.
---
Respect from a twat like you I don't need.
That's good, cause I doubt you get respect from many people.
---
If most people were like you and were sneaky liars, that might be
true. Fortunately, it's not, and I'm happy with the respect I get
from people _I_ respect and care about.
|
I suppose you can find freaks like you somewhere if you look hard enough.
| Quote: | What's the matter? you can't understand vague?
It wasn't "vague", it was American.
---
I wrote it, I made it vague, it was vague.
You just think it was. It's your favourite word since I've been "vague".
---
Hey, asshole, _you_ were the one who didn't understand it, so either
I was being vague or your mental faculties are such that you can't
understand _not_ vague. Which is it?
|
Neither. You were being American. I only speak English.
| Quote: | You mean the freedom to get shot?
---
Yeah, and _to_ shoot.
That's why we're Americanos and you're not.
You mean idiots.
---
No, not at all. We know the dangers associated with being unarmed
and have built out society around being ready for nasty surprises by
guaranteeing that we can retaliate to a threat on us with deadly
force, voluntarily. If that wasn't true we'd probably have one of
y'all calling the shots.
|
Oh and when some maniac points a gun at you and you point one back, you're sure that you will win are you? You're still living in the days of the wild west. Try growing up a little.
| Quote: | Even you have to admit that there are lunatics in America.
---
"Even" I??? I'd be the _first_ to declare it, but not to _admit_
it, since having lunatics here confers no guilt on _me_.
|
I never said you should feel guilty for other Americans being lunatics. Why do you keep reading things into what I say?
| Quote: | There are lunatics in any country.
You can't let any old Tom Dick or Harry own a shotgun.
---
Sure we can. And we do. And the lunatics know that since any old
Tom, Dick, or Harry (_not_ Tom Dick or Harry) can own a shotgun as
well, the chances are pretty good that they'll eventually be blown
away as well if they want to play that game. If they don't, oh
well... they were lunatics anyway, and they won't be sorely missed
when they're gone.
|
But how many innocent people will they kill before they get killed themselves?
| Quote: | That is the section where you are wrong. You are not required to create any heat for an AC to work, you just MOVE the heat.
---
Think of it like this:
Let's say that you have a ton of water at 20C which you want to heat
to 30C and another ton of water at 20C which you want to cool to
10C. In either case, the work done on the water will be the same,
but in order to heat it up I only have to stick a resistor in the
water and send electrical current through it. In order to cool the
water down I have to remove the same amount of energy from the water
that I used to heat the other ton of water, but I don't have a magic
resistor which cools down and absorbs heat when I run current
through it.
What I _do_ have is a system which can remove the energy from the
water and cool it down, but only at the expense of having to use
more energy to cool the water than it took to heat it.
Look at it another way:
How efficient is a heater? 100%. That is, it turns _all_ of the
energy put into it into heat.
If an A/C system is, then, less than 100% efficient, (and we all
know it is) it's less efficient than a heater. Case closed unless
you wanna fuck around some more with your jive-ass bullshit.
|
You're not understanding AC at all here. If (using arbitrary figures) you need to put in 1 kWh of energy into some water to heat it up, you also need to MOVE 1 kWh of energy out of the water to cool it back down. BUT, the energy used from the mains supply can be more OR less than the amount of heat moved, depending on how efficient the AC is. You are NOT creating that 1 kWh that is moving. You are taking it from the water and putting it outside, the energy consumed from the electricity supply is for the heat pump ONLY. In fact if you look at the SEER figures, you'll find that less than 1 kWh of electricity is required to move 1 kWh out of the water. You haven't created energy out of nothing. You've moved 1 kWh from the water to the air, and moved say 0.5 kWh from the electricity supply to the air. So it costs you half as much to cool the water as to heat it.
| Quote: | Then you're looking up big words on wikipedia to sound good.
---
Your lack of a vocabulary puts no limitations on me.
|
Your extra vocabulary mkes you look like a smartarse.
| Quote: | And we shouldn't?
You have little to complain about.
---
From your point of view, perhaps, but being the
less-than-industrious, lazy, badly educated person you profess to be
makes what I've worked hard to accomplish unimportant to you.
What has this to do with the price of gas?
---
Nothing, but as usual you miss the point, which was that we have
every right to complain _about_ the price of gas if it seems
excessive to us. You poor dinks paying $20 a gallon are in even
worse shape than we are, so it's really lucky for you that
everything there is so close.
|
The Americans complain more than we do about something which is less expensive. Don't you have something better to do with your lives? Moaning at a politician won't achieve much, they'll just carry on doing what they're doing. Sure you can vote the bastards out, but there aren't that many choices so you'll never get a decent lot in.
| Quote: | We have Medicare and Medicaid, and we have Social Security. We can
also buy medical insurance if we're so inclined. I do. Can't you?
I don't, I rely on the NHS, it's good enough for me.
My point was what are these emergencies if you have medical insurance?
---
Who knows?
I might have to fly my Lear Jet up to Nova Scotia to see the total
eclipse of the sun, or get on the road to Mandalay, where the flying
fishes play, or... who knows???
|
ROFL! Or rush to the shops cause your clothes don't match. [rolls eyes]
| Quote: | Do you mean the car is "write-off"?
If you insist. There is nothing else I could have meant so your moan is moot.
---
Hardly a moan, I was merely inquiring because you've professed an
affinity for vagueness and I was trying to determine whether you had
an alternate meaning in mind or whether it was just a nerror.
|
You were complaining about my incorrect grammar. Fair enough if I said something ambiguous, but that could not have been taken any other way. By the way that pun sucked.
| Quote: | The next few months??? Try "the next few lifetimes".
Really? How long do you think it takes to pay of £500?
---
Depends on the interest rate and your monthly payment.
|
My average interest rate is about 6%. Monthly payments are whatever I can afford.
| Quote: | If you have
to do debt financing behind a credit card and pay it back over an
extended period of time then you're in such deep shit you'll
probably never be able to stop treading water just to keep from
drowning.
Funny, I have several credit cards, ranging from 2.9% to 6.9% interest.
---
Monthly, on the unpaid balance?
|
No, the % value is yearly, but charged each month.
| Quote: | I don't remember telling you I think the electricity board are arseholes.
---
Are they not part of the government?
Nope. Thatcher dissolved that malarky. Now we have competition.
---
Sure you do.
ISTR that in another post you said that all your power comes from
the same place, and that you have the choice of billing agents for
what you use.
Sounds to me like one whore with a lot of pimps.
|
After reading some bumph from my new electricity company, it seems we have more competition than I thought. I pay money to company A, company A buys electricity from companies B C and D who run coal, nuclear, hydro, etc generators, all the power goes through the same cabling which is run by company E. I get to choose which of the 30 company As I use. And A gets to choose companies B C and D to get me the cheapest power so I don't go to another A.
| Quote: | I hate to say it, but she (if you can call that thing a woman) actually did some good.
---
The dichotomy there is that you don't consider her fuckable, so you
don't want to give her credit for any good she might have done since
she offends your perception of what women should be: Beautiful,
subservient, and shaggable by you.
|
Yes she's ugly as hell, but that is nothing to do with why I hate her. It's her extreme right wing attitude. If she had remained in power, we would probably have gone too far the other way. She would have removed all the social security stuff for example.
| Quote: | Same old shit. Let the crown
You mean royalty? They're just figureheads. They eat a bit of tax and I'd love to have them all assassinated, but they aren't in power.
---
Assassinated??? Are you serious?
What use do they serve? Well maybe bringing in American tourists.
---
They're your ties to your past and all of your successes prior to
your misadventures in America, where we had to choose sides and not
only cut the umbilical cord, but fight to keep from having it be
re-attached
|
The past is the past, now their only use is attracting tourists.
| Quote: | No, I meant the Crown. It's the attitude of subservience to
authority that's been instilled in you all for centuries that makes
you not _want_ to challenge authority. Kind of like the Japanese.
Me, not challenge authority? That's exactly the opposite of what I'm like.
---
And yet, you won't even measure the diameter of the conductors
feeding electricity into your domicile?
|
I told you I couldn't be bothered.
I also told you in the last post that I'd look when it wasn't the middle of the night.
Without tampering with the electricity board's protection fuse, I can only see the outer sheath. It's 14mm diameter (which contains live and neutral I think, as it goes into the main fuse carrier, then two wires come out to my meter then inside the house to the main distribution box). By the way it's 100A, not 80 as I've seen in every other house.
| Quote: | Only two things are certain in life, death and taxes!
---
Taxes don't have to be...
I know, they can be fiddled.
---
Then why did you say they were certain?
|
They're certain unless you break the law :-)
| Quote: | No, we were talking about efficiency. In other words, If my service
is wired with #0 AWG and yours is wired with #4, for the same load
at the receptacle your system will waste more energy than mine
But how much more?
---
It doesn't matter. What we're arguing is whether my system is
inherently more efficient than yours.
|
If it's 1% more efficient, then who cares? If it's 20% more efficient, then there's a big wastage over here, and something worth talking about.
| Quote: | Considering the transformer is visible from my lounge window.
---
So, since you can see it, it's more efficient?
|
I meant it's close by, hence a short length of wire to loose heat in.
| Quote: | Mine's underground, as are all of my utilities, so it runs cooler
and costs less to run.
|
I presume it's overground for access reasons.
| Quote: | How much power are you using at this precise moment?
---
To stay alive? About 100 watts
|
You know perfectly well what I meant. How much electricity is coming into your house at this precise moment?
| Quote: | A hell of a lot more than a watt.
So what's the point in saving a watt? Why not try saving something more?
Change a lightbulb to an energy efficient one, turn the heating down a notch, etc.
Turning off an LED on a TV set ain't gonna save the world from this so called impending doom.
---
Take a look at the arable area of the earth and what it takes to
keep a human alive, (about 66 watts
|
You said 100 up there.
| Quote: | for a 2000 calorie intake) and
divide that by the number of arable acres it takes to keep one human
alive and you'll wind up with the number of humans that this planet
can support.
|
But we don't want to be just alive. We want to watch telly. We want to eat cooked food. And so forth.
| Quote: | No, I didn't ask you to do that. You asked _me_ to give you that
information and I replied that you already had enough information,
along with the power factor data I also supplied, to figure it out
for yourself, and you can.
Well, that is, you _should_ be able to.
Just figure out what it costs to run it, full-bore, for an hour
without it shutting off.
---
Idiot, I gave you line voltage, starting and running current, and
power factor.
Can't figure it out?
Figures...
|
Those figures are probably about 50 messages further up, I can't be bothered hunting them down. Just get to your point.
--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com
Shotgun wedding: A case of wife or death. |
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John Fields
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Dec 04, 2005 5:35 pm Post subject:
Re: Use of Extension Cord |
|
|
On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 10:45:59 -0000, "Peter Hucker" <no@spam.com>
wrote nothing worth responding to.
Goodbye.
--
John Fields
Professional Circuit Designer |
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Peter Hucker
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Dec 04, 2005 5:35 pm Post subject:
Re: Use of Extension Cord |
|
|
On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 13:12:29 -0000, John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:
| Quote: | On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 10:45:59 -0000, "Peter Hucker" <no@spam.com
wrote nothing worth responding to.
Goodbye.
|
Translation:
I proved you wrong, so you ran away.
--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com
Acupuncture is a jab well done. |
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