| Author |
Message |
xray
Guest
|
 Posted:
Sun Feb 13, 2005 3:10 am Post subject:
CuCl etching |
|
|
In early Jan there was a discussion here about using CuCl to etch PC
boards. Sorry, I lost the original thread.
Someone mentioned a web page about this. I think that was my page. My
site was in limbo at the time. I have finally gotten around to putting
up some pages in a new location.
Here's the page on CuCl etching...
http://www.xertech.net/Tech/CuCl_ech.html
This information is all copied from a book of the 1980's. I did contact
the author before posting. He goes into great detail on the process of
keeping the chemistry right.
All the pictures on this page are from the book. When I did my version,
I found some porous plastic tubing in an aquarium store. I ran a few
rows horizontally across the bottom of the tank as a bubbler. I adapted
an aquarium heater in a large test tube. The heater was adjusted to a
level that could cook fish, but all the parts were there, so the
conversion was pretty easy.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Tim Wescott
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Feb 13, 2005 3:26 am Post subject:
Re: CuCl etching |
|
|
xray wrote:
| Quote: | In early Jan there was a discussion here about using CuCl to etch PC
boards. Sorry, I lost the original thread.
Someone mentioned a web page about this. I think that was my page. My
site was in limbo at the time. I have finally gotten around to putting
up some pages in a new location.
Here's the page on CuCl etching...
http://www.xertech.net/Tech/CuCl_ech.html
This information is all copied from a book of the 1980's. I did contact
the author before posting. He goes into great detail on the process of
keeping the chemistry right.
All the pictures on this page are from the book. When I did my version,
I found some porous plastic tubing in an aquarium store. I ran a few
rows horizontally across the bottom of the tank as a bubbler. I adapted
an aquarium heater in a large test tube. The heater was adjusted to a
level that could cook fish, but all the parts were there, so the
conversion was pretty easy.
That is a cool page. I suspect that I will always be too lazy to |
actually etch boards (that's what quick-turn houses are for), but it's
good information if I ever decide to do so.
--
Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
richard mullens
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Feb 13, 2005 6:11 am Post subject:
Re: CuCl etching |
|
|
Tim Wescott wrote:
| Quote: | xray wrote:
In early Jan there was a discussion here about using CuCl to etch PC
boards. Sorry, I lost the original thread.
Someone mentioned a web page about this. I think that was my page. My
site was in limbo at the time. I have finally gotten around to putting
up some pages in a new location.
Here's the page on CuCl etching...
http://www.xertech.net/Tech/CuCl_ech.html
This information is all copied from a book of the 1980's. I did contact
the author before posting. He goes into great detail on the process of
keeping the chemistry right.
All the pictures on this page are from the book. When I did my version,
I found some porous plastic tubing in an aquarium store. I ran a few
rows horizontally across the bottom of the tank as a bubbler. I adapted
an aquarium heater in a large test tube. The heater was adjusted to a
level that could cook fish, but all the parts were there, so the
conversion was pretty easy.
That is a cool page. I suspect that I will always be too lazy to
actually etch boards (that's what quick-turn houses are for), but it's
good information if I ever decide to do so.
|
Interesting, What is more, when the cuprous chloride has been formed, you can bubble acetylene through the soultion to make
cuprous acetylide - explosive, but not as good as the silver variety.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mark Jones
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Feb 14, 2005 12:39 am Post subject:
Re: CuCl etching |
|
|
xray wrote:
| Quote: | In early Jan there was a discussion here about using CuCl to etch PC
boards. Sorry, I lost the original thread.
Someone mentioned a web page about this. I think that was my page. My
site was in limbo at the time. I have finally gotten around to putting
up some pages in a new location.
Here's the page on CuCl etching...
http://www.xertech.net/Tech/CuCl_ech.html
This information is all copied from a book of the 1980's. I did contact
the author before posting. He goes into great detail on the process of
keeping the chemistry right.
All the pictures on this page are from the book. When I did my version,
I found some porous plastic tubing in an aquarium store. I ran a few
rows horizontally across the bottom of the tank as a bubbler. I adapted
an aquarium heater in a large test tube. The heater was adjusted to a
level that could cook fish, but all the parts were there, so the
conversion was pretty easy.
|
Thanks for sharing. I think that was myself who commented in January. My design
is slowly coming along, but I'm still not sure of several things yet so it is up
in the air. So far it's looking like a five-division acrylic tank about
13"x10"x1" per tank - one for developer, etchant, stripper, tin plate, and
rinse. (Not necessarily in that order or same thickness, of course.) The hard
part has been figuring out a way to seal the etchant tank during bubbling so
etchant doesn't splatter all over the place or run or drip. Since HCl fumes are
so nasty, I also thought about piping the etchant air exhaust into a bubbler in
the rinse tank - hopefully counteracting the effects of developer and stripper
alkalinity on the rinse water anyways. It's a W.I.P.
I wanted to mention about disposal of excess CuCl - some peeps on sci.chemistry
and I figure that adding magnesium to (rejuvinated) CuCl should produce harmless
byproducts suitable for disposal. This has not been tested yet. A great place to
get bulk magnesium is eBay of course. Whenever I get a chance to test this, I'll
let us know the results.
Did you say CuCl wouldn't etch very fast for you? To make my initial batch I
took the H2O2/HCl reducer path and added some copper. This sat in a polyethylene
bottle next to my bathroom register (heater vent) for about a week, etching
happily whenever I'd throw in some copper. Half a gallon ate all three
conductors of a beefy 6' computer electrical cord and then some. It did seem to
be very slow, but of course the solution parameters was and still is nowhere
near the recommended. In hindsight, it would have been much simper to just buy
some CuO from eBay and mix it with HCl, done.
It's pretty much stopped etching now, but the color is not anywhere near
"olive-brown." It's more like a deep, slightly-opaque green, still in stark
contrast to the "almost-glow-in-the-dark" bright translucent green when it
started. I haven't been able to bubble it yet, and it still seems like the
density is far too low (compared to the viscosity of FeCl), but we'll see what
happens when it goes into the bubbler tank and gets some well-needed
rejuvination and calibration. :)
Regards,
Mark |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mark Jones
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Feb 14, 2005 12:48 am Post subject:
Re: Was: CuCl etching |
|
|
richard mullens wrote:
| Quote: | Tim Wescott wrote:
xray wrote:
In early Jan there was a discussion here about using CuCl to etch PC
boards. Sorry, I lost the original thread.
Someone mentioned a web page about this. I think that was my page. My
site was in limbo at the time. I have finally gotten around to putting
up some pages in a new location.
Here's the page on CuCl etching...
http://www.xertech.net/Tech/CuCl_ech.html
This information is all copied from a book of the 1980's. I did contact
the author before posting. He goes into great detail on the process of
keeping the chemistry right.
All the pictures on this page are from the book. When I did my version,
I found some porous plastic tubing in an aquarium store. I ran a few
rows horizontally across the bottom of the tank as a bubbler. I adapted
an aquarium heater in a large test tube. The heater was adjusted to a
level that could cook fish, but all the parts were there, so the
conversion was pretty easy.
That is a cool page. I suspect that I will always be too lazy to
actually etch boards (that's what quick-turn houses are for), but it's
good information if I ever decide to do so.
Interesting, What is more, when the cuprous chloride has been formed,
you can bubble acetylene through the soultion to make cuprous acetylide
- explosive, but not as good as the silver variety.
|
A much safer alternative is ammonium tri-iodide. Take a pitri dish, add a few
(read: one or two) iodine crystals, add just enough ammonia to cover. Ammonia in
this case is household ammonia - the pure stuff would make the result far too
unstable - breathing on it would set it off. Swirl gently, and after a few
minutes the iodine crystals will turn purple. When wet, it is harmless. But once
they dry, they become explosive. Apparently the molecules line up in very long
chains when drying and are easily broken by physical force, creating a miniature
atomic chain-reaction. The product of explosion is simple dis-assembly of the
structure - it leaves an ammonia-and-iodine-stain on whatever unlucky thing
touched it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
martin griffith
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Feb 14, 2005 1:06 am Post subject:
Re: Was: CuCl etching |
|
|
On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 13:48:46 -0500, in sci.electronics.design Mark
Jones <abuse@127.0.0.1> wrote:
| Quote: | A much safer alternative is ammonium tri-iodide. Take a pitri dish, add a few
(read: one or two) iodine crystals, add just enough ammonia to cover. Ammonia in
this case is household ammonia - the pure stuff would make the result far too
unstable - breathing on it would set it off. Swirl gently, and after a few
minutes the iodine crystals will turn purple. When wet, it is harmless. But once
they dry, they become explosive. Apparently the molecules line up in very long
chains when drying and are easily broken by physical force, creating a miniature
atomic chain-reaction. The product of explosion is simple dis-assembly of the
structure - it leaves an ammonia-and-iodine-stain on whatever unlucky thing
touched it.
|
Ah.... those were the days, when schools really taught chemistry.
martin
"Facts are stupid things.." -- Reagan, '88 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jim Thompson
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Feb 14, 2005 1:10 am Post subject:
Re: Was: CuCl etching |
|
|
On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 13:48:46 -0500, Mark Jones <abuse@127.0.0.1>
wrote:
| Quote: | richard mullens wrote:
Tim Wescott wrote:
xray wrote:
In early Jan there was a discussion here about using CuCl to etch PC
boards. Sorry, I lost the original thread.
Someone mentioned a web page about this. I think that was my page. My
site was in limbo at the time. I have finally gotten around to putting
up some pages in a new location.
Here's the page on CuCl etching...
http://www.xertech.net/Tech/CuCl_ech.html
This information is all copied from a book of the 1980's. I did contact
the author before posting. He goes into great detail on the process of
keeping the chemistry right.
All the pictures on this page are from the book. When I did my version,
I found some porous plastic tubing in an aquarium store. I ran a few
rows horizontally across the bottom of the tank as a bubbler. I adapted
an aquarium heater in a large test tube. The heater was adjusted to a
level that could cook fish, but all the parts were there, so the
conversion was pretty easy.
That is a cool page. I suspect that I will always be too lazy to
actually etch boards (that's what quick-turn houses are for), but it's
good information if I ever decide to do so.
Interesting, What is more, when the cuprous chloride has been formed,
you can bubble acetylene through the soultion to make cuprous acetylide
- explosive, but not as good as the silver variety.
A much safer alternative is ammonium tri-iodide. Take a pitri dish, add a few
(read: one or two) iodine crystals, add just enough ammonia to cover. Ammonia in
this case is household ammonia - the pure stuff would make the result far too
unstable - breathing on it would set it off. Swirl gently, and after a few
minutes the iodine crystals will turn purple. When wet, it is harmless. But once
they dry, they become explosive. Apparently the molecules line up in very long
chains when drying and are easily broken by physical force, creating a miniature
atomic chain-reaction. The product of explosion is simple dis-assembly of the
structure - it leaves an ammonia-and-iodine-stain on whatever unlucky thing
touched it.
|
I prefer fulminate of mercury myself (remember the movie "Mister
Roberts" ;-)
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
John Woodgate
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Feb 14, 2005 1:59 am Post subject:
Re: Was: CuCl etching |
|
|
I read in sci.electronics.design that Jim Thompson
<thegreatone@example.com> wrote (in <6f9v01p5a0ggbrouk56q31urco4i5747ui@
4ax.com>) about 'Was: CuCl etching', on Sun, 13 Feb 2005:
| Quote: | I prefer fulminate of mercury myself (remember the movie "Mister
Roberts" ;-)
|
That is not too surprising since it's a compound, mercuric isocyanate,
formed from mercury and *ethyl alcohol*, with a little help from nitric
acid.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
xray
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Feb 14, 2005 2:01 am Post subject:
Re: CuCl etching |
|
|
On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 13:39:23 -0500, Mark Jones <abuse@127.0.0.1> wrote:
| Quote: | The hard
part has been figuring out a way to seal the etchant tank during bubbling so
etchant doesn't splatter all over the place or run or drip. Since HCl fumes are
so nasty, I also thought about piping the etchant air exhaust into a bubbler in
the rinse tank - hopefully counteracting the effects of developer and stripper
alkalinity on the rinse water anyways. It's a W.I.P.
|
That is a problem. I never solved it. The HCl fumes are indeed nasty,
and heating the solution makes it worse. The bubbling tends to create an
aerosol of the solution too which can badly stain anything it contacts.
I have some plumbing in my batroom, where I tried this, that now has a
nice rust coating.
A tight cover and some kind of fume hood would definately be a good
idea.
| Quote: |
I wanted to mention about disposal of excess CuCl - some peeps on sci.chemistry
and I figure that adding magnesium to (rejuvinated) CuCl should produce harmless
byproducts suitable for disposal. This has not been tested yet. A great place to
get bulk magnesium is eBay of course. Whenever I get a chance to test this, I'll
let us know the results.
|
I guess you read the disposal idea from the book I copied? This was
mainly in reference to FeCl but I guess would be ok for CuCl too. He
talks about neutralizing it and then mixing it into concrete to make a
brick that will contain the chemicals. I thought that was one of the
best ideas I had heard.
| Quote: |
Did you say CuCl wouldn't etch very fast for you? To make my initial batch I
took the H2O2/HCl reducer path and added some copper.
|
Yes. I can't remember the times now but it seemed to take about twice as
long as I ecpected FeCl would. Maybe there was some problem with my
set-up, but I mixed the chemical per the article and tests showed acid
level and density to be about right. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
John Woodgate
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Feb 14, 2005 2:33 am Post subject:
Re: CuCl etching |
|
|
I read in sci.electronics.design that xray <notreally@hotmail.invalid>
wrote (in <ncbv019klscmti47b7ig2njncse1mt7tgr@4ax.com>) about 'CuCl
etching', on Sun, 13 Feb 2005:
| Quote: | That is a problem. I never solved it. The HCl fumes are indeed nasty,
and heating the solution makes it worse. The bubbling tends to create an
aerosol of the solution too which can badly stain anything it contacts.
I have some plumbing in my batroom, where I tried this, that now has a
nice rust coating.
A tight cover and some kind of fume hood would definately be a good
idea.
|
HCl vapour is very highly soluble in water. So you can absorb it in a
water bath to recover the acid. It's so soluble that you have to take
precautions to stop the water climbing up the input pipe after it. I kid
you not; it's called 'suck back'. What you do is to terminate the pipe
only JUST under the surface of the water, so if the water climbs up the
pipe the level in the bath drops and exposes the end of the pipe.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
richard mullens
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Feb 14, 2005 6:11 am Post subject:
Re: Was: CuCl etching |
|
|
John Woodgate wrote:
| Quote: | I read in sci.electronics.design that Jim Thompson
thegreatone@example.com> wrote (in <6f9v01p5a0ggbrouk56q31urco4i5747ui@
4ax.com>) about 'Was: CuCl etching', on Sun, 13 Feb 2005:
I prefer fulminate of mercury myself (remember the movie "Mister
Roberts" ;-)
That is not too surprising since it's a compound, mercuric isocyanate,
formed from mercury and *ethyl alcohol*, with a little help from nitric
acid.
|
Hg(ONC)2
"Mercury Fulminate is made by dissolving mercury in concentrated nitric acid and pouring the warm solution into alcohol, under
carefully defined conditions, in a roomy and suitable apparatus. After an initial period of quiescence a stormy reaction of a
complex nature sets in, and eventually mercury fulminate begins to separate in small grey needles. At the end of the reaction
the cooled mother-liquor is decanted and the fulminate collected on a filter and well washed with cold water. Large crystals
are removed by passing the product through a fine screen, and the product is washed again until it is quite free from acid. The
brownish-grey crystals obtained in this way are stored in linen bags under water. The density of the crystals is about 4.3 ..."
from Explosives by John Read, Pelican books 1942.
"Chandelon's process. 1 part by weight of mercury is dissolved in 10 parts of nitric acid (sp. gr. 1.4) at a gentle heat; the
solution at a temperature of about 55 degrees, is poured in a capacious flask (its capacity must be at least equal to six times
the volume of the liquid) containing 8.3 parts of alcohol (of sp.gr. 0.83). The flask is connected by a cork and tube with a
stoneware condenser to recover spirit.
In about a quarter of an hour the reaction commences with a slight formation of gas bubbles; very soon the liquid boils, and the
flask becomes filled with voluminous white vapour..."
from A dictionary of applied chemistry by TE Thorpe 1891 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
Memberlist
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in