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John Woodgate
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 5:05 pm Post subject: Re: Elektor Electronics new website

I read in sci.electronics.design that Richard the Dreaded Libertarian
<eatmyshorts@doubleclick.net> wrote (in <pan.2005.02.21.09.14.12.772084@
doubleclick.net>) about 'Elektor Electronics new website', on Mon, 21
Feb 2005:

Quote:

On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 16:21:16 +1100, Franc Zabkar wrote:

On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 19:34:27 -0500, keith <krw@att.bizzzz> put finger
to keyboard and composed:

On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 20:59:53 +0000, Fred Abse wrote:

On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 13:18:46 -0500, keith wrote:

Nope. "Satisfied" smacks of "he's paid enough". i.e. communist

Other way round. The recipient satisfied with the payment that has been
agreed. That's bargaining. The basis of capitalism.

A perfect capitalist bargain is struck when neither party is
satisfied.

Bullshit. That is absolutely wrong. If you believe this to be true, then
someone has taught you an untruth, that could be a very dangerous thing
if it becomes popular.

It would be better stated as 'only just satisfied', i.e. neither (or
perhaps both) is/are gloating over fleecing the other.

A Scotsman bought a small item for a pound, and spent some time counting
the change. The shop assistant asked 'Is it right?' 'Nobbut just!' was
the dour reply.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

mc
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 8:47 pm Post subject: Re: Elektor Electronics new website

"John Woodgate" <jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote in message
news:sVn9btAICcGCFwHS@jmwa.demon.co.uk...

Quote:

A Scotsman bought a small item for a pound, and spent some time counting
the change. The shop assistant asked 'Is it right?' 'Nobbut just!' was
the dour reply.

For the Americans: That means "Just barely." :)

ted
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 9:11 pm Post subject: Re: Elektor Electronics new website

"Kryten" <kryten_droid_obfusticator@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:<iCeRd.3$xU5.0@newsfe1-win.ntli.net>...

Quote:

"john jardine" <john@jjdesigns.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:cv3mml$tbm$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...

I've never done it before but threw February's issue in the bin . Had
hoped
the exotically named Svetlana would be offering a similar vision for the
mag'.
Not so, (fishing mag out of rubbish) ...

Potentia. "Digital tool warns against system power failure"
Multiband OFDM Alliance. PHY 1.0 spec.
Medea+. MPUs fall foul of Moores Law.
Medea+. "European R+D.
Medea+. EU R+D cooperation.
Altium. Easy 32 bit processor for FPGA.
DiBcom. DVB-H mobile TV Silicon ***
Peregrine Semicon. Silicon on Sapphire.
PICMG (PCI) group. Advanced TCA compliant products.
ARC International. New 'platforms'.
Biotech wetware.
Future Electronics. ADCs (trivia).
Lattice semicon. FPGA digital screens.
LPRA. Patient care.

*** Most TLAs ever gathered in one place.

These and other paid for advertising 'puffs', made up most of what's now
become a trade mag'. The 'articles' were the usual, moronic, unreadable BS
written by marketing people. Svetlana's taken the advertising shilling yet
has the cheek to try and charge me £3.25.
I'll give her a couple more issues before I cancel the magazine.

Yes, these titles do sound like industrial press releases (which can be read
for free in the trade mags).

Mind you, I don't envy her position.

The readers are dwindling because there are fewer people interested in stuff
like amateur radio or making hi-fi. Professional outfits have got the
resources to develop sophisticated products.

The writers are dwindling because fewer of them have the time or inclination
to write for a pittance. After Hood died, there was only the lunatic fringe
left.

In the days when a radio was something you could make yourself, you could
fit an interesting article into a couple of pages and a circuit diagram.

These days you need reams of source code and a very long explanation!

On top of that, if anyone has a project they think others might be
interested in, they can publish it on the web themselves.

I think we need to write a list of what we want to read, then wonder who is
going to write it.

K.

Could you (and others here) list topics they would like to read about?

I've written about 15 articles for EW over the last 3 years, and have
had little feedback from readers (apart from the odd student wanting
help with their project)

Perhaps they are a)too boring b)too irrelevant c)too incomprehensible

I'd just like to know!!

Kryten
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 6:10 am Post subject: Re: Elektor Electronics new website

Quote:

That is an excellent question and I'd like a good time to think about it!
:-)

But yes, it is a hard job to think of good stuff.

For a long time, the main cool consumer electronic goods were stuff like TV
and hi-fi.
You could pack an interesting article in a couple of pages.
You didn't have to be a rocket scientist.

At some point, somebody noticed that an ordinary C64 had more processing
power than the computers in the Apollo spacecraft.

Nowadays my main cool consumer electronic goods include a hi-fi with similar
CPU speed as a C64, and a laptop with many thousands of times more
processing power and code than a C64.

It is a lot harder to write articles people would think "hey, cool, I'll try
that myself".
We had a chance of building a nice phono pre-amp.
We have much less chance of building a CD player chip or a 24-bit DAC and
oversampling filter.
Or a Windows-beating OS (unless you are Linus Torvalds).

The coolness threshold has risen so high that it takes a lot more effort to
put together decent offerings. Elektor need to have much more staff
producing more projects to do.

keith
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 6:10 am Post subject: Re: Elektor Electronics new website

On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 16:21:16 +1100, Franc Zabkar wrote:

Quote:

On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 19:34:27 -0500, keith <krw@att.bizzzz> put finger
to keyboard and composed:

On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 20:59:53 +0000, Fred Abse wrote:

On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 13:18:46 -0500, keith wrote:

Nope. "Satisfied" smacks of "he's paid enough". i.e. communist

Other way round. The recipient satisfied with the payment that has been
agreed. That's bargaining. The basis of capitalism.

A perfect capitalist bargain is struck when neither party is
satisfied.

Bullshit! If you truely believe this you're not worth doing business
with.

Quote:

Ok, so you're a Cossack, and not a commie. Russian hats, all the same.

Quote:

<yawn>

--
Keith

Franc Zabkar
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 6:10 am Post subject: Re: Elektor Electronics new website

On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 21:46:20 -0500, keith <krw@att.bizzzz> put finger
to keyboard and composed:

Quote:

On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 16:21:16 +1100, Franc Zabkar wrote:

On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 19:34:27 -0500, keith <krw@att.bizzzz> put finger
to keyboard and composed:

On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 20:59:53 +0000, Fred Abse wrote:

On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 13:18:46 -0500, keith wrote:

Nope. "Satisfied" smacks of "he's paid enough". i.e. communist

Other way round. The recipient satisfied with the payment that has been
agreed. That's bargaining. The basis of capitalism.

A perfect capitalist bargain is struck when neither party is
satisfied.

Bullshit! If you truely believe this you're not worth doing business
with.

This particular position can be viewed in many ways, each equally
valid. It's a bit like that proverbial half glass - you can see it as
half full, half empty, or twice as big as it needs to be. In this
particular case, if the employee were satisfied, then the employer
would be thinking, "damn, I could have screwed him down a little
more". OTOH, if the employer were happy, then the employee would be
thinking, "damn, I should have tried to screw more out of him". The
ideal bargain is reached when *neither* party is happy because it
follows that *both* would then be happy.

Quote:

But then you go on to say:

Maybe I should have said "overpaid"

Which is worthy of a Cossack hat.

Cossacks were *not* communists. In fact your glib remark does them a
gross disservice. During WW2 they fought on both sides, some to free
Russia from the existing tyranny of Stalin, others to protect Russia
from the impending tyranny of Hitler.

Ok, so you're a Cossack, and not a commie. Russian hats, all the same.

No, I'm none of the above. I'm just someone whose view of the world
extends beyond his own backyard.

Quote:

You are already well established in Usenet as an arrogant buffoon, but
this comment is a new low, even for you. Your original comment was
ignorant but forgiveable. A man of stature would have apologised and
moved on, but you are not such a man.

- Franc Zabkar
--
"Until the Gulf War, I thought Iraq was the past tense of Iran."
- attributed to some American stand-up comedian whose name I forget.

Please remove one 's' from my address when replying by email.

Dirk Bruere at Neopax
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 11:15 pm Post subject: Re: Elektor Electronics new website

Fred Abse wrote:

Quote:

On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 11:10:01 -0800, Winfield Hill wrote:

Fred Abse wrote...

[quoted text muted]

That's right. I guess it was your 'probably not "well paid"' comment
that set me off. Software engineers at IBM, Sun, Novell, Red Hat, HP,
Intel, CA, and Cisco, to mention a few places where massive Linux
programming is done, are probably quite well paid. Linux development is
serious business now.

Yes, I guess it all revolves around what one considers "well paid". Maybe
I should have said "overpaid"

He is well paid who is well satisfied ...

As I once joked with my boss, "...if you paid me twice as much I'd only have to

come in half the time."

--
Dirk

The Consensus:-
The political party for the new millenium
http://www.theconsensus.org

keith
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 6:10 am Post subject: Re: Elektor Electronics new website

On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 16:54:21 +1100, Franc Zabkar wrote:

Quote:

On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 21:46:20 -0500, keith <krw@att.bizzzz> put finger
to keyboard and composed:

On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 16:21:16 +1100, Franc Zabkar wrote:

On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 19:34:27 -0500, keith <krw@att.bizzzz> put finger
to keyboard and composed:

On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 20:59:53 +0000, Fred Abse wrote:

On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 13:18:46 -0500, keith wrote:

Nope. "Satisfied" smacks of "he's paid enough". i.e. communist

Other way round. The recipient satisfied with the payment that has been
agreed. That's bargaining. The basis of capitalism.

A perfect capitalist bargain is struck when neither party is
satisfied.

Bullshit! If you truely believe this you're not worth doing business
with.

This particular position can be viewed in many ways, each equally
valid. It's a bit like that proverbial half glass - you can see it as
half full, half empty, or twice as big as it needs to be. In this
particular case, if the employee were satisfied, then the employer
would be thinking, "damn, I could have screwed him down a little
more". OTOH, if the employer were happy, then the employee would be
thinking, "damn, I should have tried to screw more out of him". The
ideal bargain is reached when *neither* party is happy because it
follows that *both* would then be happy.

Nope. If you're not happy trading your dollar for a loaf of bread and the
baker isn't happy parting with his loaf of bread for a dollar, you have
no business doing business. You like your dollar too much and he likes
his bread too much. May you eat your dollar and he spend his bread.

Quote:

If you cannot get with a figure of speech, then you indeed are hopless, as
you have been every time we've crossed paths.

Quote:

See
http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Marina/6150/cos.html

After WW2 the British intentionally repatriated tens of thousands of
Cossack POWs and refugees (and many others) knowing that they would
all be butchered by Stalin (ref. "The Minister and the Massacre"
(1986) by Nikolai Tolstoy).

yawn

You are already well established in Usenet as an arrogant buffoon, but
this comment is a new low, even for you. Your original comment was
ignorant but forgiveable. A man of stature would have apologised and
moved on, but you are not such a man.

Perhaps I am arrogant, but you've proven to be a ignorant time we've
crossed paths. Apologise to human waste like you? FOr calling a
ruskie's hat a "cossack hat"? Please. Grow up Francis!

--
Keith

--
Keith

john jardine
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 6:10 am Post subject: Re: Elektor Electronics new website

"ted" <edaudio2000@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:c54bf83f.0502210711.4c77c375@posting.google.com...

[clip]

Quote:

Feedback, a dose of whingeing, even a mild rant. A pleasure!
It'd be easier though, if you givuzz summat to go at :)
Had a quick rummage through a few issues but couldn't spot a "Ted" or an
"Edward" (ah-ha an alias?, audio themes?). A title or two would help focus.

I can only speak for myself but I know it's difficult to list what's liable
to catch my attention in a magazine. E.g. nowadays I've little interest in
any audio subject but ... an article turned up by Doug' Self on
analogue-switching that I found really thought provoking. Capacitor quality,
held zilch interest until Cyril started going on about it. I'd no feeling
for sampling method until Ian Hickman wrote up his experience avalanching a
transistor.
I think it isn't the subject headings or topics that make or break a
magazine, it's the obvious knowledge, love of their subjects and level of
detail that some authors can introduce.
Writing style is of no consequence. I'm perfectly happy with pigdin English,
as long as the content is there, (newsgroups and the WWW can be a good
example of this).
As a kid, WW was beyond me but odd bits were of interest so I bought it. The
Reithian perspective still holds true and any new kids on the block should
expect to be able to do the same. But ... times have changed and Kryten
rightly notes that few people are now in a position to follow the subject.
Hence a lack of motivation for authors to promulgate their enthusiasms
amongst a wide readership. Last person out be sure to turn off the lights.

For me, a big no-no, is any magazine article designed to provide an
'overview' of some technical product or process or technique. Unfortunately
there seems more and more of this type of article turning up in the (pay
for) magazines.
Overviews are the easy bit and are not enough. Anyone can pitch the plot of
a new film or novel, the clever bit is putting it all together.
Yeah, great, OK, tell me about the USB2 setup but be sure to also tell me
all the exact, nitty-gritty hardware and software details, sufficient to
allow me to make use of it as engineer, rather than as consumer of
here-today-gone-tomorrow commercial pre-designed product and software. If it
takes 6 months to do so, then don't even bother trying. Just give me a
single paragaph taster. Instead, tell me in a few pages, some interesting
things about diodes and transistors and oscillators and op-amps and
resistors and stuff.
The radio amateurs have similar problems with commercial kit killing their
raison d'etre. A number of them adopted a QRP construction ethos. Maybe we
can do the same.
I'm pretty much repeating Kryten's comments but I've seen a number of mag's
go down over the past few years and all for these same reasons.
They seem to change EW editors every five minutes. What's sorely missing
from the mag' is some kind of continuity, like a monthly or even occasional,
Alastair Cooke style, Letter-from-the-trenches.
Maybe you can step onto the crease?.
regards
john

YD
Guest

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 4:44 pm Post subject: Re: Elektor Electronics new website

On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 15:00:42 +0000 (UTC), kensmith@green.rahul.net
(Ken Smith) wrote:

Quote:

In article <cv90p60sk9@drn.newsguy.com>,
Winfield Hill <hill_a@t_rowland-dotties-harvard-dot.s-edu> wrote:
[....]
Good point. But be careful, satisfaction doesn't buy homes or put
food on the table. Somehow I doubt that many Linux programmers are
"overpaid." There's lots of competition in that field.

Many Linux programmers work for free and are over paid at that :)

I have been surprised by the quality of the software that people develope
for free. This surprise has usually been in the positive direction. It
is a weird "business model" but I can see it becoming a major force in the
future. I have often written software for a specific task that could,
chances are, save others a few hours of time. There is no way I could
market such software and make a profit but if I had some way to easily
share it and the others had a fast way to find it, I would share it.

Try registering it at www.sourceforge.net. Don't know the internal
workings of it but I've found some nice apps there. Another place
might be www.nonags.com. If they're good and useful at least in the
limited community they're aimed at you may find some paid developments
coming your way.

- YD.

--
Remove HAT if replying by mail.

ted
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 5:37 pm Post subject: Re: Elektor Electronics new website

John, thanks for your comments

Quote:

Had a quick rummage through a few issues but couldn't spot a "Ted"
or an
"Edward" (ah-ha an alias?, audio themes?). A title or two would help
focus.

Try Eddy...):-)

Quote:

I can only speak for myself but I know it's difficult to list what's
liable
to catch my attention in a magazine. E.g. nowadays I've little
interest in
any audio subject but ... an article turned up by Doug' Self on
analogue-switching that I found really thought provoking. Capacitor
quality,
held zilch interest until Cyril started going on about it. I'd no
feeling
for sampling method until Ian Hickman wrote up his experience
avalanching a
transistor.
These guys are incredibly knowledgeable about their fields, and

whatever they write about makes interesting

reading, even if you are not too interested in the subject. The
downside is that there aren't that many people

around willing to put so much effort and get paid very little for it.
Once upon a time maybe, but not

nowadays...So the first problem is the lack of quality writers..

Quote:

I think it isn't the subject headings or topics that make or break a
magazine, it's the obvious knowledge, love of their subjects and
level of
detail that some authors can introduce.
Exactly

Quote:

times have changed and Kryten rightly notes that few people are now
in a position to follow the subject. Hence a lack of motivation
for authors to promulgate their enthusiasms amongst a wide
readership.

Agree. Nowadays "instant satisfaction" is the name of the game. The
common way for engineers to get to know a new

technology such as Bluetooth, is to buy a ready made module and use it
off the shelf. If you try to explain how

it all works in any detail, you lose your audience. Also, new
technology products are not only complex to

understand, but also pretty boring to describe. Part of the reason is
that they are designed by consortiums who

complicate the product and their functions no end.

Quote:

For me, a big no-no, is any magazine article designed to provide an
'overview' of some technical product or process or technique.
Unfortunately
there seems more and more of this type of article turning up in the
(pay
for) magazines. Overviews are the easy bit and are not enough.
Mainly it is because it is copied from some other already existing

text. To write a decently descriptive article

on say how IEE802 works, you need several weeks research: decyphering
the standards, decoding the undocumented

bits, emailing people for information etc. Not far from the amount of
work needed for an MSc Thesis...

Quote:

They seem to change EW editors every five minutes.
I think the main reason is that they are trying to increase

circulation figures (about 10-12k at present I guess)

The audience is there, cOnsidering the IEE has over 120k members. I
just don't know how these mags can be made

attractive to them.

Quote:

What's sorely missing
from the mag' is some kind of continuity, like a monthly or even
occasional,
Alastair Cooke style, Letter-from-the-trenches.
Maybe you can step onto the crease?.
There is something there. When I get the New Scientist, the first

thing I turn to is the "back page" In one of

the mags (Television I think) there used to be a column "a day in the
life of a service engineer" First thing I

used to read, quite readable it was too..

John Woodgate
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 6:14 pm Post subject: Re: Elektor Electronics new website

I read in sci.electronics.design that ted <edaudio2000@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote (in <c54bf83f.0502240337.65a478b1@posting.google.com>) about
'Elektor Electronics new website', on Thu, 24 Feb 2005:

Quote:

In one of

the mags (Television I think) there used to be a column "a day in the
life of a service engineer" First thing I

used to read, quite readable it was too..

You mean 'What a Life!' by Donald Bullock? It's still there, but not
always at the back.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

Kryten
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 7:21 pm Post subject: Re: Elektor Electronics new website

"ted" <edaudio2000@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:c54bf83f.0502240337.65a478b1@posting.google.com...

Quote:

So the first problem is the lack of quality writers.

I suspect that the population of good writers has not gone down too much.

However, if they are smart enough to write such articles they can also spot
that the payment divided by number of hours is less than minimum wage.

Quote:

They seem to change EW editors every five minutes.
I think the main reason is that they are trying to increase
circulation figures (about 10-12k at present I guess)

I suspect there is no "they" to change editors,
total staff is unlikely to be more than the editor and a p.a.

Maybe people take on the business, find out how hard it is to fill the
magazine, then sell the business on a.s.a.p.

Svetlana has correctly observed that selling babble like the
magnetoaetherial tunnel and the Catt blather is not a viable long term
option. Selling trade press releases may not be either, since these are
given away in the free trade papers.

Maybe the readership has declined so far that there isn't enough money to
pay enough to entice people to write. Even if a staff of just two paid
themselves a modest 20K each, they'd need to make £4 on each of 10K mags
sold.

Perhaps we should ask the Audit Bureau of Circulation what the actual figure
is.

K.

John Woodgate
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 2:38 am Post subject: Re: Elektor Electronics new website

I read in sci.electronics.design that Kryten <kryten_droid_obfusticator@
ntlworld.com> wrote (in <KxkTd.221$D_.53@newsfe5-gui.ntli.net>) about
'Elektor Electronics new website', on Thu, 24 Feb 2005:

Quote:

I suspect there is no "they" to change editors,
total staff is unlikely to be more than the editor and a p.a.

There are a few more than that: about six on the masthead, including a
'Publishing Director' who is the real boss.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk

Kryten
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 6:10 am Post subject: Re: Elektor Electronics new website

"John Woodgate" <jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote in message
news:GDTkG3KHtjHCFwaB@jmwa.demon.co.uk...

Quote:

There are a few more than that: about six on the masthead, including a
'Publishing Director' who is the real boss.

How many do practical work, and how many are just named because they own the
business?

I once worked at an engineering company with a managing director, financial
director (his wife), a sales director, a secretary, a one engineer (me).
Never work for a company with more people directing than doing...

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