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Steven O.
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 Posted:
Tue Sep 27, 2005 6:44 am Post subject:
EE Professors -- Textbook recommendation needed, please! |
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Background: I am posting this inquiry on behalf of a slightly
overworked EE professor at the local community college. I am
currently taking a distance learning class on circuit fundamentals,
and the professor is planning to offer a distance learning class on
basic transistor and amplifier theory in the near future -- as soon as
this Spring, if possible. Among the holdups is that she needs to find
the right textbook, ASAP. (And for my part, I am hoping to take the
class this Spring, which is why I am helping her in her textbook
hunt!)
Obviously, she needs a decent textbook in basic transistor and
amplifier theory, something at roughly the level of "Electronic
Devices" by Floyd (Prentice Hall).
The kicker, however, is this: The way she runs her distance learning
classes, she wants to be able to give her students fairly detailed
solutions to all the homework problems, and she doesn't always have
time to work out all those solutions herself (she is running multiple
distance learning classes). Therefore -- she needs a textbook where
the publisher will provide, to faculty members, detailed, worked
solutions to the homework problems in the text, preferably in
electronic form (such as .pdf), so she can send these solutions out to
the students.
The way my current class is working is, we first try to work the
homework problems on our own; but then compare our own efforts to the
solved solutions (sorry, I guess that phrasing is redundant), both so
we can see if we've done it correctly; and so if we have not done the
problem correctly, we can learn how to do it right. For this class on
circuits, we are using "Engineering Circuit Analysis" by Hayt, and
apparently they do provide her with the solutions in .pdf form, so she
can send them to us. Apparently, she has so far been unable to find a
similar text for transistor theory and applications.
I've checked the Web site for "Electronic Devices" by Floyd myself --
I happened to pick up the text a few years ago -- and I cannot tell
from that site whether or not the publisher provides detailed
solutions for the HW problems at all, let alone provides them in .pdf
format or similar.
Anyway, bottom line: I (we, actually) appreciate any recommendation
for a good sophomore/junior level textbook on transistor theory/basic
applications, plus appropriate related topics -- basics of op-amps,
oscillators, you probably know what else applies -- where the
publisher will provide, to the instructor, .pdf or similar files with
detailed, worked-out solutions to the homework problems presented in
the textbook.
Please be kind enough to send leads my way, via this newsgroup or the
e-mail (slightly mangled, below), and I will forward them to the
professor.
Thanks!
Steve O.
steveqdr useThatFirstPartJustAsIs AATT RemoveSpamProtectPhrase Yahoo
DDOOTT Ccoomm
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Joerg
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Sep 27, 2005 7:00 am Post subject:
Re: EE Professors -- Textbook recommendation needed, please! |
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Hello Steven,
If I'd have to start out again I would certainly pick Horowitz, Hill:
"The Art of Electronics". Winfield Hill is actually an active
participant in this newsgroup (sci.electronics.design).
A source that might help in distance learning would be MIT. AFAIK they
placed most if not all of their courses online. But I have no idea how
this can be handled from a copyright point of view. Best would be to
talk to them about it.
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com |
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Winfield Hill
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Sep 27, 2005 7:38 am Post subject:
Re: EE Professors -- Textbook recommendation needed, please! |
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Joerg wrote...
| Quote: |
Hello Steven,
If I'd have to start out again I would certainly pick Horowitz, Hill:
"The Art of Electronics". Winfield Hill is actually an active
participant in this newsgroup (sci.electronics.design).
|
Thanks for the recommendation, but I'm not sure our book is "rote"
enough for community-college students. That's because we provide
masses of information, and it may not be clear to a distance-learning
student what he's responsible for. Our reference-book approach is to
blame for that. We do offer a set of solutions for teachers, however.
| Quote: | A source that might help in distance learning would be MIT. AFAIK they
placed most if not all of their courses online. But I have no idea how
this can be handled from a copyright point of view. Best would be to
talk to them about it.
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Depends on the course, so far as I can tell. Many other places have
also put various course notes online. Some are very good indeed.
--
Thanks,
- Win
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RST Engineering (jw)
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Sep 27, 2005 8:35 am Post subject:
Re: EE Professors -- Textbook recommendation needed, please! |
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"Steven O." <null@null.com> wrote in message
news:sv7hj158m94a4qsgbrcr84098l94g0ubl3@4ax.com...
| Quote: | Background: I am posting this inquiry on behalf of a slightly
overworked EE professor at the local community college.
|
So are all of us overworked EE professors at the community college level.
Comes with the territory. If she doesn't understand that now, god help her
in the years to come.
| Quote: |
The kicker, however, is this: The way she runs her distance learning
classes, she wants to be able to give her students fairly detailed
solutions to all the homework problems, and she doesn't always have
time to work out all those solutions herself (she is running multiple
distance learning classes). Therefore -- she needs a textbook where
the publisher will provide, to faculty members, detailed, worked
solutions to the homework problems in the text, preferably in
electronic form (such as .pdf), so she can send these solutions out to
the students.
|
The first time you offer an on-line course, you had best be prepared to
spend five to ten times the time you spend in a B&M (bricks and mortar)
class setting the sucker up and doing all the detailed explanations that you
can do in the classroom with chalkboard. You don't have that luxury on
line.
The upside to that is that once you have the course "canned" it is about ten
percent of the work of a B&M class for years to come.
If your instructor doesn't understand this, gently inform her of the way the
real world works.
Jim |
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Joerg
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Sep 27, 2005 8:35 am Post subject:
Re: EE Professors -- Textbook recommendation needed, please! |
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Hello Winfield,
| Quote: | Thanks for the recommendation, but I'm not sure our book is "rote"
enough for community-college students. That's because we provide
masses of information, and it may not be clear to a distance-learning
student what he's responsible for. ...
|
True, but if I were a professor that book would be mandatory to have.
Especially distance-learners can easily lose track of reality since they
don't get involved in labs and stuff like that. So they need to build
things with their own hands.
I am less and less enthused about the quality of recent grads. Many of
them can't even solder, let alone design anything at transistor level.
Some weren't even able to understand my module specs although I am not
too bad in writing that kind of prose. It can't be so bad because even
mechanical engineers tend to understand it. Then again those are folks
in their 40's to 60's.
There is much talk about age discimination and I am sure it happens. But
for some reason all the engineers I hired were over 35 and some much
above that. Sometimes it's similar with techs. The best guy I ever
worked with was around 75. After retiring he went onto his wife's nerves
too much and she made him go back to work again.
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com |
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Fred Bloggs
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Richard
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Sep 27, 2005 4:35 pm Post subject:
Re: EE Professors -- Textbook recommendation needed, please! |
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Steven,
One option is Introductory Electronic Devices and Circuits by Paynter
(Prentice Hall). The companion site is at
http://wps.prenhall.com/chet_paynter_introduct_6.
Your professor should check with professors at other colleges that offer
distance learning in the EE field. They may be her best source for textbook
recommendations and to educate her about what is required to set up a useful
distance learning course and the virtual labs that may go with it. Among
others, Old Dominion University (Norfolk, VA) offers several distance
learning courses.
Richard |
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Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Sep 28, 2005 12:35 am Post subject:
Re: EE Professors -- Textbook recommendation needed, please! |
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Joerg, I can relate to the accuracy of your post.
When I worked at Raytheon, whenever a tough software challenge
confronted us, our top sofware consultant was a guy approaching 80
years old! He was paid the "big bucks" because he could invariably
resolve the problem. That was back around 1980 before the Internet even
existed (except for ARPA).
Now I am approaching 70, been retired for almost 10 years and my
telephone rings nearly off-the-hook with calls from my previous
employers.
Raytheon, in particular, shot themselves in the foot by laying-off off
many of their higher paid employees after the age of 50 to save money.
What the financial guys in the company overlooked was the fact that
most of the employees laid off were the only people qualified by their
experience to write technical proposals to the government, in turn
costing the firm millions of dollars in lost business. They also lost
site of the fact that these guys that were laid off were the only
employees with sufficient experience and knowledge to make their
systems function properly.
As a consequence of this extremely poor management decision, Raytheon's
once robust Equipment Divison no longer exists, and hence they
extensively rely on former employees hired as consultants to satisfy
their continuing corporate responsibilities to the federal government
and defence department.
These reponsibilities include --
The SPS-49 radar system
The ROTHR over-the-horizon radar system
The Tomahawk missile system
The HAWK missile system
The Patriot missile system
.... and numerous other programs.
Since the newly hired college graduates are clearly no up to the
challenge, what in the heck are company's like Lockheed-Martin and
Raytheon going to do when old farts like myself die?
I'm no mental giant, but back when I was in college we had a CO-OP
program that required us to work in industry for half of the year. When
we returned to classes, our experiences in the field were discussed and
we were advised of what we had done wrong, plus what we had done
correctly. This prepared us for entry into the real world.
Unfortunately such college programs are rare today and largely limited
to the very top technological oriented institutions.
'Nuff said....
Harry C. |
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Jim Thompson
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Sep 28, 2005 12:35 am Post subject:
Re: EE Professors -- Textbook recommendation needed, please! |
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On 27 Sep 2005 12:46:50 -0700, hhc314@yahoo.com wrote:
| Quote: | Joerg, I can relate to the accuracy of your post.
When I worked at Raytheon, whenever a tough software challenge
confronted us, our top sofware consultant was a guy approaching 80
years old! He was paid the "big bucks" because he could invariably
resolve the problem. That was back around 1980 before the Internet even
existed (except for ARPA).
Now I am approaching 70, been retired for almost 10 years and my
telephone rings nearly off-the-hook with calls from my previous
employers.
Raytheon, in particular, shot themselves in the foot by laying-off off
many of their higher paid employees after the age of 50 to save money.
What the financial guys in the company overlooked was the fact that
most of the employees laid off were the only people qualified by their
experience to write technical proposals to the government, in turn
costing the firm millions of dollars in lost business. They also lost
site of the fact that these guys that were laid off were the only
employees with sufficient experience and knowledge to make their
systems function properly.
As a consequence of this extremely poor management decision, Raytheon's
once robust Equipment Divison no longer exists, and hence they
extensively rely on former employees hired as consultants to satisfy
their continuing corporate responsibilities to the federal government
and defence department.
These reponsibilities include --
The SPS-49 radar system
The ROTHR over-the-horizon radar system
The Tomahawk missile system
The HAWK missile system
The Patriot missile system
... and numerous other programs.
Since the newly hired college graduates are clearly no up to the
challenge, what in the heck are company's like Lockheed-Martin and
Raytheon going to do when old farts like myself die?
I'm no mental giant, but back when I was in college we had a CO-OP
program that required us to work in industry for half of the year. When
we returned to classes, our experiences in the field were discussed and
we were advised of what we had done wrong, plus what we had done
correctly. This prepared us for entry into the real world.
Unfortunately such college programs are rare today and largely limited
to the very top technological oriented institutions.
'Nuff said....
Harry C.
|
Make as much money as we can until we die ?:-)
I don't think I could really retire, I'd go bonkers with the
inactivity.
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food. |
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Joerg
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Sep 28, 2005 12:35 am Post subject:
Re: EE Professors -- Textbook recommendation needed, please! |
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Hello Harry,
| Quote: | I'm no mental giant, but back when I was in college we had a CO-OP
program that required us to work in industry for half of the year. ...
|
That is exactly one of the points. I got my degree in Europe and CO-OP
was and AFAIK still is a mandatory part of the curriculum. You had to
complete the first 3 months before mid-term or they would not allow you
to sit for any further exams. The other 3 months had to be completed
before they'd give you the degree. Very simple, not enough CO-OP time,
no degree.
They also would not assist in finding those jobs. We had to do that on
our own.
But the real knowledge came as a hobbyist, by building stuff. Lots of
stuff. I didn't learn the Smith Chart as a student but by actually
needing it. Then there were lots of jobs and this has hit me in my
grades. After ten hours of wrestling with some control circuitry I often
just couldn't bring myself to study another five hours. Then again, what
good does it do to graduate with top grades and not have the foggiest
idea of how to make an AGC amp with transistors and for under $1 in parts?
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com |
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John Woodgate
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Sep 28, 2005 1:42 am Post subject:
Re: EE Professors -- Textbook recommendation needed, please! |
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I read in sci.electronics.design that Joerg
<notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote (in
<72i_e.722$Y_5.32@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>) about 'EE Professors --
Textbook recommendation needed, please!', on Tue, 27 Sep 2005:
| Quote: | Then again, what good does it do to graduate with top grades and not
have the foggiest idea of how to make an AGC amp with transistors and
for under $1 in parts?
|
I often wonder. I sorted out the electronics for two fellow-students,
one of whom got a First. I built lots of audio stuff and FM receivers.
Although it wasn't compulsory, I did 7 weeks in production engineering
between first and second years (incidentally saving them $$$ for
screened cabins by turning the AM radio alignment stations through 90
degrees to eliminate the fluorescent lamp interference), and then 8
weeks in design engineering between second and third years. When I went
back for a full-time job, I knew two of the interview board and I'd
worked for both of them.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
If everything has been designed, a god designed evolution by natural selection.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk |
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Fred Bloggs
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Sep 28, 2005 2:08 pm Post subject:
Re: EE Professors -- Textbook recommendation needed, please! |
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hhc314@yahoo.com wrote:
| Quote: | Since the newly hired college graduates are clearly no up to the
challenge, ...
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That's the same thing *your* seniors were saying about you in the 60's
and 70's... |
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Chris
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:01 pm Post subject:
Re: EE Professors -- Textbook recommendation needed, please! |
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Steven O. wrote:
<snip>
| Quote: | I've checked the Web site for "Electronic Devices" by Floyd myself --
I happened to pick up the text a few years ago -- and I cannot tell
from that site whether or not the publisher provides detailed
solutions for the HW problems at all, let alone provides them in .pdf
format or similar.
snip
Thanks!
Steve O.
|
Hi, Steve. Floyd is a good two-semester junior college-level textbook.
If you and the instructor are otherwise happy with the book, I'd
recommend using the Prentice Hall Rep Locator on the website to get in
touch with the customer service rep for her school and department. She
can get all kinds of information on how the textbook, lab manual,
Multisim, the instructor text, CD-ROMs, website and other teaching
materials can be integrated into her online course.
Usually, with multimedia extravaganza courses like this, other
resources are available from the publisher which haven't been included
for one reason or another. Sometimes, these can be pried loose before,
but not after, the course textbook decision has been made.
So, put the publisher customer service rep to work, and see what
Prentice-Hall can do to sell the text to the professor. After all,
that's what the CSR is paid to do.
Good luck
Chris |
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Tim Shoppa
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:35 pm Post subject:
Re: EE Professors -- Textbook recommendation needed, please! |
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Joerg wrote:
| Quote: | I am less and less enthused about the quality of recent grads. Many of
them can't even solder, let alone design anything at transistor level.
Some weren't even able to understand my module specs although I am not
too bad in writing that kind of prose. It can't be so bad because even
mechanical engineers tend to understand it. Then again those are folks
in their 40's to 60's.
|
Having been in academia at the time (not EE, but a sideways field where
I got to teach EE students) I can tell you that the blame can squarely
be laid on VLSI technology in the 80's/early 90's. All the young
professors
being hired at the time did nothing but VLSI, and all the students
pretty
much wanted to do nothing but VLSI, because that was where the big
bucks
were and admittedly that was where most of the excitement was.
It's hard to put your "hands on" those microscopic transistors so
instead
the students learned computer-based layout tools for their last couple
years
before graduating. Most of the ones I knew poo-pooed their first
couple
years where they actually had labs where they put parts together and
watched
traces on scopes - they only wanted to connect the dots on CRT's, to
them
that was electronics.
Tim. |
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tim gorman
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Sep 29, 2005 12:35 am Post subject:
Re: EE Professors -- Textbook recommendation needed, please! |
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Fred Bloggs wrote:
| Quote: |
hhc314@yahoo.com wrote:
Since the newly hired college graduates are clearly no up to the
challenge, ...
That's the same thing *your* seniors were saying about you in the 60's
and 70's...
|
No, I know two people who worked at Raytheon. Harry was exactly right. Both
of these people were hired back by Raytheon as consultants to rescue the
programs they were working on but in both cases it was way too late. One
project was for the FAA. Makes me really shy about flying any more.
tim |
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