| Author |
Message |
Davis
Guest
|
 Posted:
Fri Sep 09, 2005 12:35 am Post subject:
EPROM Programming |
|
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Hi,
Looking a resources where I can learn about modifying the code (Hex) on
EPROMs. Any links to places I can learn to understand what I'm looking at.
I've been a programmer for over 10 years, but never tackled anything in this
area.
I have some older equipment I'm repairing and the system code is on a
MBM27256. I've loaded the EPROM into the reader software and can see the
data.
Also, is there such a software as a decompiler for BIN files that would
return the
data into Assembler or Zilog code for example?
Thanks
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Bill Janssen
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Sep 09, 2005 12:35 am Post subject:
Re: EPROM Programming |
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|
Davis wrote:
| Quote: | Hi,
Looking a resources where I can learn about modifying the code (Hex) on
EPROMs. Any links to places I can learn to understand what I'm looking at.
I've been a programmer for over 10 years, but never tackled anything in this
area.
I have some older equipment I'm repairing and the system code is on a
MBM27256. I've loaded the EPROM into the reader software and can see the
data.
Also, is there such a software as a decompiler for BIN files that would
return the
data into Assembler or Zilog code for example?
Thanks
Yes dis-assemblers are available. You have to know what processor you have |
so as to get the correct dis-assembler
Be advised that the first run of a dis-assembler will probably have many
errors.
You then have to go through the code and find those errors. If data is
mixed in
with the instructions things can get complicated.
Been there - done that.
Good luck
Bill K7NOM |
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Rich Webb
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Sep 09, 2005 6:57 am Post subject:
Re: EPROM Programming |
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|
On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 00:10:51 GMT, Bill Janssen <billj9@ieee.org> wrote:
[snip...snip...]
| Quote: | You then have to go through the code and find those errors. If data is
mixed in
with the instructions things can get complicated.
|
Especially if they've deliberately obscured things by having pieces of
the data run as legitimate machine language.
I also seem to recall a (possibly apocryphal) story of a ROM for an
early computer (an Apple?) that had instructions in interleaved reading
frames. Ah, those were the days ...
--
Rich Webb Norfolk, VA
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Alexander Peter
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:35 am Post subject:
Re: EPROM Programming |
|
|
Am Fri, 09 Sep 2005 01:57:58 GMT schrieb Rich Webb:
| Quote: | On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 00:10:51 GMT, Bill Janssen <billj9@ieee.org> wrote:
[snip...snip...]
You then have to go through the code and find those errors. If data is
mixed in
with the instructions things can get complicated.
Especially if they've deliberately obscured things by having pieces of
the data run as legitimate machine language.
I also seem to recall a (possibly apocryphal) story of a ROM for an
early computer (an Apple?) that had instructions in interleaved reading
frames. Ah, those were the days ...
|
On some machines address and data lines on the bus have been interchanged
to do some kind of "scrambling". This can also be a problem for a
disassembler.
You have to know if the connectio of the lines is comletely 1:1
Alexander |
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Dave Platt
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Sep 09, 2005 11:05 pm Post subject:
Re: EPROM Programming |
|
|
In article <glq1i1152uem9i0d50gqam2f0ikltke9ql@4ax.com>,
Rich Webb <bbew.ar@mapson.nozirev.ten> wrote:
| Quote: | Especially if they've deliberately obscured things by having pieces of
the data run as legitimate machine language.
I also seem to recall a (possibly apocryphal) story of a ROM for an
early computer (an Apple?) that had instructions in interleaved reading
frames. Ah, those were the days ...
|
I once disassembled the PROM for a Synertek KTM-3, a simple "terminal
emulator built into a keyboard". Standard PC-size keyboard, a serial
port connection on the back, and a monochrome-video output to go to a
monochrome monitor display.
It was implemented using a 6502 (if I recall correctly) architecture.
One of the oddities of this micro was that its memory bus interface
was driven during only one-half of each clock cycle. It's possible
for two micros to share the same bus (and thus share RAM and PROM) if
one of them has its clock line inverted.
That's just what the KTM-3 did... it had two 6502s, one to run the
terminal emulator code, and the other to act as the video encoder
(reading the data out of RAM, doing table lookups to construct the
scan lines, and shoving the resulting bits into a shift register which
clocked them out to create the video signal). The second 6502 had
some odd reordering and inversions done to its address and data lines,
so that its code was broken up into a few blocks of "data" in the PROM
image executed by the main (terminal emulator) 6502.
It worked. It also made my brain hurt.
--
Dave Platt <dplatt@radagast.org> AE6EO
Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads! |
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petrus bitbyter
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Sep 10, 2005 6:45 am Post subject:
Re: EPROM Programming |
|
|
"Davis" <nospam@nospam.com> schreef in bericht
news:gh4Ue.7607$4P5.5495@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
| Quote: | Hi,
Looking a resources where I can learn about modifying the code (Hex) on
EPROMs. Any links to places I can learn to understand what I'm looking
at.
I've been a programmer for over 10 years, but never tackled anything in
this
area.
I have some older equipment I'm repairing and the system code is on a
MBM27256. I've loaded the EPROM into the reader software and can see the
data.
Also, is there such a software as a decompiler for BIN files that would
return the
data into Assembler or Zilog code for example?
Thanks
|
Well... Such software is called a "Disassembler" or sometimes "Unassembler".
I wrote several of them over time. Having over 10 years programming
experience it should be the easy part for you. Although a little Googling
will make you find free disassmeblers for all of the old beasts. But what
about the hardware? Of course you need to know what processor you're dealing
with but some overview of the "system" may be necessary as well. If your
EPROM is straight forward connected with address- and databus it's easy but
you need to know. The same counts for the I/O-addresses and the hardware
they control. A hexdump will be handy to locate (ASCII)data in the code.
Running a disassembler is no problem. But the result. You will have several
hundreds or even thousends lines of assemblercode without comments, symbolic
names or other support. 32k assemblercode is quite a lot. The largest one I
ever fully disassembled was 4k of 8051 code and it took weeks to have it all
pointed out. (Including partial reverse engineering of the circuit,
especially the I/O). So I guess the hardware part will be the hard part for
you. Nevertheless succes.
petrus bitbyter |
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Davis
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Sep 12, 2005 12:16 am Post subject:
Re: EPROM Programming |
|
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| Quote: | But what about the hardware? Of course you need to know what processor
you're dealing
with but some overview of the "system" may be necessary as well. If your
EPROM is straight forward connected with address- and databus it's easy
but
you need to know. The same counts for the I/O-addresses and the hardware
they control. A hexdump will be handy to locate (ASCII)data in the code.
Running a disassembler is no problem. But the result. You will have
several
hundreds or even thousends lines of assemblercode without comments,
symbolic
names or other support. 32k assemblercode is quite a lot. The largest one
I
ever fully disassembled was 4k of 8051 code and it took weeks to have it
all
pointed out. (Including partial reverse engineering of the circuit,
especially the I/O). So I guess the hardware part will be the hard part
for
you. Nevertheless succes.
petrus bitbyter
|
Hi,
Thanks for all this advice. I was able to locate a specific Z80
disassembler. I extracted the EPROM and disassembled it. I now have the
listing. Here is the first 19 lines of 9110.
--------------------------------------------------
Z80 DISASSEMBLER LISTING
Line Addr Opcodes Label Instruction
--------------------------------------------------
0001 0000 3E 78 L1063: LD A,78H
0002 0002 D3 88 OUT (88H),A
0003 0004 C3 CE 0E JP L0001
0004 0007 00 NOP
0005 0008 08 EX AF,AF'
0006 0009 D9 L0591: EXX
0007 000A ED 40 IN B,(C)
0008 000C 7D L0594: LD A,L
0009 000D D3 98 OUT (98H),A
0010 000F 7C LD A,H
0011 0010 D3 9C OUT (9CH),A
0012 0012 23 INC HL
0013 0013 1B DEC DE
0014 0014 7A LD A,D
0015 0015 B3 OR E
0016 0016 D9 EXX
0017 0017 28 02 JR Z,L0002
0018 0019 08 EX AF,AF'
0019 001A C9 RET
It only has labels and code as you said. I do have a repair and theory
manual for the hardware. It contains
block diagrams and schematics. I guess that should help alot, but I have a
lot of studying and learning to do.
Thanks |
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John Robertson
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Sep 15, 2005 8:35 am Post subject:
Re: EPROM Programming |
|
|
On 2005-09-11 12:16:49 -0700, "Davis" <nospam@nospam.com> said:
| Quote: | But what about the hardware? Of course you need to know what processor
you're dealing
with but some overview of the "system" may be necessary as well. If your
EPROM is straight forward connected with address- and databus it's easy
but
you need to know. The same counts for the I/O-addresses and the hardware
they control. A hexdump will be handy to locate (ASCII)data in the code.
Running a disassembler is no problem. But the result. You will have
several
hundreds or even thousends lines of assemblercode without comments,
symbolic
names or other support. 32k assemblercode is quite a lot. The largest one
I
ever fully disassembled was 4k of 8051 code and it took weeks to have it
all
pointed out. (Including partial reverse engineering of the circuit,
especially the I/O). So I guess the hardware part will be the hard part
for
you. Nevertheless succes.
petrus bitbyter
Hi,
Thanks for all this advice. I was able to locate a specific Z80
disassembler. I extracted the EPROM and disassembled it. I now have the
listing. Here is the first 19 lines of 9110.
--------------------------------------------------
Z80 DISASSEMBLER LISTING
Line Addr Opcodes Label Instruction
--------------------------------------------------
0001 0000 3E 78 L1063: LD A,78H
0002 0002 D3 88 OUT (88H),A
0003 0004 C3 CE 0E JP L0001
0004 0007 00 NOP
0005 0008 08 EX AF,AF'
0006 0009 D9 L0591: EXX
0007 000A ED 40 IN B,(C)
0008 000C 7D L0594: LD A,L
0009 000D D3 98 OUT (98H),A
0010 000F 7C LD A,H
0011 0010 D3 9C OUT (9CH),A
0012 0012 23 INC HL
0013 0013 1B DEC DE
0014 0014 7A LD A,D
0015 0015 B3 OR E
0016 0016 D9 EXX
0017 0017 28 02 JR Z,L0002
0018 0019 08 EX AF,AF'
0019 001A C9 RET
It only has labels and code as you said. I do have a repair and theory
manual for the hardware. It contains
block diagrams and schematics. I guess that should help alot, but I have a
lot of studying and learning to do.
Thanks
|
I missed the front end of this conversation, but it looks like you are
trying to fix an old Z80 system. The best tool I know of for figuring
these out WITHOUT a schematic or memory map (or disassembling the
code!) is the Fluke series of Microprocessor testers. The original
Fluke 9010A with a Z80 pod has alearn function that will do a pretty
good job of identifying the ROM locations, RAM and I/O. You can then
use the probe to check chip selects and find out more the memory
layout. The later Fluke Series 90 Z80 Microprocessor Tester is a bit
easier to use than the original 9010, but it is rarer and not well
understood.
I support a tech tools mail list that you can join if you wish to
discuss using these Fluke (or other brands) of CPU test devices. We
mostly chat about the 9010A...but burners (Data I/O for example) and
other stuff fits in fine:
http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/techtoolslist
John :-#)#
--
(Please post followups or tech enquires to the newsgroup) John's
Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call
(604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they
just flip out." |
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