| Author |
Message |
Rich Grise
Guest
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 Posted:
Fri Sep 16, 2005 11:59 pm Post subject:
Re: PiezoElectric Spark Ignitor |
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On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 13:37:40 +0100, John Woodgate wrote:
| Quote: | I read in alt.binaries.schematics.electronic that buck rojerz
inorbit@outerspace.org> wrote (in <Xns96D035FBF74A7ou812@216.168.3.44>)
about 'PiezoElectric Spark Ignitor', on Tue, 13 Sep 2005:
Why do I leave the "a" out at times?? Because this is recreational
typing and it really doesn't matter all that much, in here.
I believe the 'a' SHOULD be left out, for euphony. I see no reason,
except pedantry, to slavishly preserve the whole prefix when it results
in the vowel combination 'ao'.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohm
They even leave the extra 'o' in 'kiloohm'. That's silly. I've never
heard anyone say "kilo-ohm".
Cheers!
Rich
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Rich Grise
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Sep 17, 2005 12:00 am Post subject:
Re: PiezoElectric Spark Ignitor |
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On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 19:32:51 +0100, John Woodgate wrote:
| Quote: | I read in alt.binaries.schematics.electronic that St. John Smythe
UndisclosedRecipient@privacy.net> wrote (in
dg74g2$v8j$3@n4vu2.n4vu.com>) about 'PiezoElectric Spark Ignitor', on
Tue, 13 Sep 2005:
John Woodgate wrote:
I believe the 'a' SHOULD be left out, for euphony. I see no reason,
except pedantry, to slavishly preserve the whole prefix when it results
in the vowel combination 'ao'.
I agree about the spoken form, but disagree about the written form.
We will have to ask IEC TC25 for an official ruling. Expect the answer
later this century. Much later.
Kibis, anyone?
|
Isn't that dog food?
Thanks,
Rich |
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Rich Grise
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Sep 17, 2005 12:15 am Post subject:
Re: PiezoElectric Spark Ignitor |
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On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 03:14:35 -0700, Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the Dark
| Quote: | "John Woodgate" <jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote in message
I read in alt.binaries.schematics.electronic that "Watson A.Name -
....
I may be able to find a few low value, high voltage capacitors in my
junk box, or from an old TV set. I wonder if a 3kV capacitor is
enough, since it is going to load down the output of the piezo
element.
Don't.
Like I was saying above, I think I can scrounge up enough 3 or 4kV caps
to put several in series, and get the capacitance down to 10pF or so.
These are usually tested to twice their rated value, so if two 3kVs are
in series, they should be able to handle over 10kV, not that they would
ever have to, tho.
|
What? You want to miss out on the fun of making your own glass HV
cap? Lessee - say your window glass is 1/8" thick, then from
C = 0.224 * (K * S * (N-1)) / d , where
C = pf
K = 7.5 for glass
S = area, sq. in
N = # plates
d = spacing, .125 for this example
(ref: http://www.kilowattclassroom.com/Archive/CapXC.pdf )
so, lessee... start with 2 plates, 1 sq.in. ...
C = 0.224 *(7.5 * 1 * 1) / .125 = 13.44 pf per sq. in. of plate. If you
use the foil from a gum wrapper, having peeled it off the wax paper,
you could probably stick it to the glass by just warming it up. :-)
Have Fun!
Rich
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Watson A.Name - \"Watt Su
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Sep 17, 2005 12:35 am Post subject:
Re: PiezoElectric Spark Ignitor |
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"Rich Grise" <rich@example.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.09.16.19.01.46.689006@example.net...
| Quote: | On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 13:37:40 +0100, John Woodgate wrote:
I read in alt.binaries.schematics.electronic that buck rojerz
inorbit@outerspace.org> wrote (in
Xns96D035FBF74A7ou812@216.168.3.44>)
about 'PiezoElectric Spark Ignitor', on Tue, 13 Sep 2005:
Why do I leave the "a" out at times?? Because this is
recreational
typing and it really doesn't matter all that much, in here.
I believe the 'a' SHOULD be left out, for euphony. I see no reason,
except pedantry, to slavishly preserve the whole prefix when it
results
in the vowel combination 'ao'.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohm
They even leave the extra 'o' in 'kiloohm'. That's silly. I've never
heard anyone say "kilo-ohm".
|
I believe the authoritative source for this info in the U.S. is NIST,
which is in agreement with the rest of the world. Go here, and after
brushing up on the prefixes (and while there, brush up on the prefixes
for binary multiples, last paragraph), go to Rules and Style
Conventions.
http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/index.html
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Watson A.Name - \"Watt Su
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Sep 17, 2005 12:35 am Post subject:
Re: PiezoElectric Spark Ignitor |
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"Rich Grise" <rich@example.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.09.16.19.02.20.845567@example.net...
| Quote: | On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 19:32:51 +0100, John Woodgate wrote:
I read in alt.binaries.schematics.electronic that St. John Smythe
UndisclosedRecipient@privacy.net> wrote (in
dg74g2$v8j$3@n4vu2.n4vu.com>) about 'PiezoElectric Spark Ignitor',
on
Tue, 13 Sep 2005:
John Woodgate wrote:
I believe the 'a' SHOULD be left out, for euphony. I see no
reason,
except pedantry, to slavishly preserve the whole prefix when it
results
in the vowel combination 'ao'.
I agree about the spoken form, but disagree about the written form.
We will have to ask IEC TC25 for an official ruling. Expect the
answer
later this century. Much later.
Kibis, anyone?
Isn't that dog food?
Thanks,
Rich
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Er, no. Check this out. http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html |
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Watson A.Name - \"Watt Su
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Sep 17, 2005 12:35 am Post subject:
Re: PiezoElectric Spark Ignitor |
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"Rich Grise" <rich@example.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.09.16.19.16.48.784291@example.net...
| Quote: | On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 03:14:35 -0700, Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the
Dark
"John Woodgate" <jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote in message
I read in alt.binaries.schematics.electronic that "Watson A.Name -
...
I may be able to find a few low value, high voltage capacitors in
my
junk box, or from an old TV set. I wonder if a 3kV capacitor is
enough, since it is going to load down the output of the piezo
element.
Don't.
Like I was saying above, I think I can scrounge up enough 3 or 4kV
caps
to put several in series, and get the capacitance down to 10pF or
so.
These are usually tested to twice their rated value, so if two 3kVs
are
in series, they should be able to handle over 10kV, not that they
would
ever have to, tho.
What? You want to miss out on the fun of making your own glass HV
cap? Lessee - say your window glass is 1/8" thick, then from
C = 0.224 * (K * S * (N-1)) / d , where
C = pf
K = 7.5 for glass
S = area, sq. in
N = # plates
d = spacing, .125 for this example
(ref: http://www.kilowattclassroom.com/Archive/CapXC.pdf )
so, lessee... start with 2 plates, 1 sq.in. ...
C = 0.224 *(7.5 * 1 * 1) / .125 = 13.44 pf per sq. in. of plate. If
you
use the foil from a gum wrapper, having peeled it off the wax paper,
you could probably stick it to the glass by just warming it up. :-)
Have Fun!
Rich
|
Just like you, Rich! A baling wire and bubble gum solution!
Thanks for the reference. I may do that. Soon as I can find a piece of
broken glass and get it about the right size and thickness, without
stabbing myself with it. :-/
How did they, centuries ago, get the foil and stuff to stick to the
inside and outside of those Leyden jars? :-? |
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John Woodgate
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Sep 17, 2005 12:35 am Post subject:
Re: PiezoElectric Spark Ignitor |
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I read in alt.binaries.schematics.electronic that "Watson A.Name -
\"Watt Sun, the Dark Remover\"" <NOSPAM@dslextreme.com> wrote (in
<11imccaposanud5@corp.supernews.com>) about 'PiezoElectric Spark
Ignitor', on Fri, 16 Sep 2005:
| Quote: | How did they, centuries ago, get the foil and stuff to stick to the
inside and outside of those Leyden jars? :-?
|
Egg white.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
If everything has been designed, a god designed evolution by natural selection.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk |
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St. John Smythe
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Sep 17, 2005 12:35 am Post subject:
Re: PiezoElectric Spark Ignitor |
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Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the Dark Remover" wrote:
| Quote: | How did they, centuries ago, get the foil and stuff to stick to the
inside and outside of those Leyden jars? :-?
|
How about, the same way Antonio Stradivari got his violins to hold
together?
--
St. John |
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Watson A.Name - \"Watt Su
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Sep 17, 2005 12:35 am Post subject:
Re: PiezoElectric Spark Ignitor |
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"John Woodgate" <jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote in message
news:0IQXVylJQzKDFwQW@jmwa.demon.co.uk...
| Quote: | I read in alt.binaries.schematics.electronic that "Watson A.Name -
\"Watt Sun, the Dark Remover\"" <NOSPAM@dslextreme.com> wrote (in
11imccaposanud5@corp.supernews.com>) about 'PiezoElectric Spark
Ignitor', on Fri, 16 Sep 2005:
How did they, centuries ago, get the foil and stuff to stick to the
inside and outside of those Leyden jars? :-?
Egg white.
|
Reminds me of that verrrry old tricky (verbal) question:
How do you spell 'JOKE'?
How do you spell 'POKE'?
How do you spell the white of an egg?
Many if not most people immediately say 'YOLK'!
and then find that they screwed up when they're told it's spelled
'albumen'.
Some vandals threw raw eggs at the wall of a neighbor's house on
Halloween, and after it dried it was very difficult to get off. Someone
once told me that they used to use it as the binder in paint.
I'm wondering how egg white can dry when it's covered up with aluminum
foil. Maybe it doesn't need to.
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Watson A.Name - \"Watt Su
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Sep 17, 2005 12:35 am Post subject:
Re: PiezoElectric Spark Ignitor |
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"St. John Smythe" <UndisclosedRecipient@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:dgfcbe$ueb$1@n4vu2.n4vu.com...
| Quote: | Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the Dark Remover" wrote:
How did they, centuries ago, get the foil and stuff to stick to the
inside and outside of those Leyden jars? :-?
How about, the same way Antonio Stradivari got his violins to hold
together?
|
I've read that the secret to his violin making was in the shellac he
made. But I don't know about the glue. Horsehide glue, I would
imagine.
A ham I once knew put up cupboards in his garage with wood glue, and
years later (when he moved out) when he took them down, in some places
the wood separated not on the glue line, but pulled out chunks of
splinters. So the bond can be very strong if the joint is thin.
Yeah, here's a URL that verifies that it's hide glue.
http://www.centrum.is/hansi/construction/.index.html
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Jasen Betts
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Sep 17, 2005 12:35 am Post subject:
Re: PiezoElectric Spark Ignitor |
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On 2005-09-07, NunYa Bidness <nunyabidness@nunyabidness.org> wrote:
| Quote: | On Thu, 8 Sep 2005 00:42:55 +1200, Jasen Betts
jasen-b@free.net.nospam.nz> Gave us:
the sensation of the spark is less than the kick from the spring.
You must have had a "dead" one then. I have had some that pack quite
a bite. They do wear out as the pile accumulates fractures.
|
The good electrostatic igniters like like used for lighting gas flames are
operated by a lever mechanism and can pack quite a punch, the cheap ones
in disposable lighters work with a sort of spring-loaded pile-driver
and often the plastic parts of the mechanism fail. and the shock of the
hammer hitting the piezo element isn't real good for that part either.
barbecue igniters are much more powerful than the disposable lighter ones too
--
Bye.
Jasen |
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John Woodgate
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Sep 17, 2005 3:02 am Post subject:
Re: PiezoElectric Spark Ignitor |
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I read in alt.binaries.schematics.electronic that St. John Smythe
<UndisclosedRecipient@privacy.net> wrote (in
<dgfcbe$ueb$1@n4vu2.n4vu.com>) about 'PiezoElectric Spark Ignitor', on
Fri, 16 Sep 2005:
| Quote: | Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the Dark Remover" wrote:
How did they, centuries ago, get the foil and stuff to stick to the
inside and outside of those Leyden jars? :-?
How about, the same way Antonio Stradivari got his violins to hold
together?
Boiled horse? |
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
If everything has been designed, a god designed evolution by natural selection.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk |
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buck rojerz
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Sep 17, 2005 7:48 am Post subject:
Re: PiezoElectric Spark Ignitor |
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NunYa Bidness <nunyabidness@nunyabidness.org> wrote in
news:6k0li1pq9hg6ghu3f08fmrf0u1u0m053ma@4ax.com:
| Quote: | On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 23:25:44 -0000, buck rojerz
inorbit@outerspace.org> Gave us:
NunYa Bidness <nunyabidness@nunyabidness.org> wrote in
news:kdhfi115jhbd05j6rgl1vs90e02sf0glnv@4ax.com:
On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 12:18:18 -0000, buck rojerz
inorbit@outerspace.org> Gave us:
NunYa Bidness <nunyabidness@nunyabidness.org> wrote in
news:e0nai1dlln0b91fu68nscsia8jnv9gpsf8@4ax.com:
On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 09:13:54 -0000, buck rojerz
inorbit@outerspace.org> Gave us:
"Watson A.Name - \"Watt Sun, the Dark Remover\""
NOSPAM@dslextreme.com
wrote in news:11i6roieq5kio70@corp.supernews.com:
"buck rojerz" <inorbit@outerspace.org> wrote in message
news:Xns96CD9B594E5BEou812@216.168.3.44...
"Watson A.Name - \"Watt Sun, the Dark Remover\""
NOSPAM@dslextreme.com
wrote in news:11i4n83h66shh8f@corp.supernews.com:
"amdxjunk" <nojunk@knology> wrote in message
news:8b22f$4320228b$18d6b479$7914@KNOLOGY.NET...
Hi Watson,
Why don't you start by loading it with 1Meg
resistor in series with a 1k resistor. Measure the voltage
across
the
1k.
Then do the same with a 100,000k and a 100 ohm. With the
info
gathered
you
can find the internal resistance of the piezo device. I
think you
will
find
it is very high.
You might use 10 100,000k resistors to make your 1Meg, to
keep
the
voltage
low across the resistor.
I think you have a bit of a problem with nomenclature here.
Ten 100,000K resistors is a gigaohnm. But thank you for the
ideas.
I don't know if your calculator is busted or what. Last time I
looked,
10 X 100,000 is 1,000,000. That is 1 million -or- 1 megohm...
not 1 Gigohm.
1 Gigohm is 1000 Megohms -or- 1000 X 100,000.
1 Gigohm is 1 billion ohms.
When you multiply "10s", all you have to do is add up the zeros
from
each
factor and you have your "powers of 10".
:)
You had best be going back up above and rereading what's there.
It's _not_ 100,000. It says 100,000k
^
Big difference! And it's not a typo, 'cause it says that value
_twice_!!
And as for your statement above - I quote
"> 1 Gigohm is 1000 Megohms -or- 1000 X 100,000."
You had better review that one, too!
Yes, I sure screwed up for certain. Kause I missed it big time.
But... 1000 Megohms is 1 Gigohm, though... is it not?
Doesn't Giga=billion?
Did I goof there too? :\
ALL steps are in multiples of 1000
Just like capacitors are in steps of 1000
1.0 = 1
1.0k = 1,000
1.0M = 1,000,000
1.0G = 1,000,000,000
Since I see you do catch the "a" occasionally why do you leave
it
out at times? It is Megaohm, not Megohm. It is Gigabyte and
Gigaohm, not Gigohm. "Meg" and "Gig" are not valid prefixes.
Perhaps... only in conversation.
I guess I really goofed now... here I thought this was an
electronics group and now I find out it is really an English grammer
and spelling group.
My bad. :(
P.S. Why do I leave the "a" out at times?? Because this is
recreational typing and it really doesn't matter all that much, in
here.
Everyone knows what I meant. Even you.
Perhaps you have a need to feel superior. Well, it looks as though
you are.
Thanks for noticing, though.
Well, Chucko. When you enter a technical group asking for
technical
assistance, then fall on your face miserably, then THINK that you
fixed YOUR problem, yet sport evidence of still being FUCKED UP,
that's what you get.
You weren't typing recreationally. That is how you have referred
to
it often. The correction I provided was not grammatical, dolt.
Well... it was recreational for me.
You are correct about me being "F***ed up". That is a given.
Your response was in no way disappointing. (also a given) After all,
it is your way.
I need all the help I can get. It's a privilege to have you here, to
point out our shortcomings. Otherwise, we might never know.
Thank you, for making my final point for me.
:)
Did you see the show on HBO about "The Ice Man"?
That dude is cold.
|
Nope, didn't see it.
| Quote: |
I'm just an asshole. :-]
|
If you say so. I have always felt that honesty is the best policy.
buck |
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Rich Grise
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Sep 20, 2005 12:35 am Post subject:
Re: PiezoElectric Spark Ignitor |
|
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On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 14:02:08 -0700, Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the Dark
Remover" wrote:
On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 14:02:08 -0700, Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the Dark
| Quote: | How did they, centuries ago, get the foil and stuff to stick to the
inside and outside of those Leyden jars? :-?
|
Well, keeping in mind that it was probably tin foil, they probably
just formed it to the surface and it just stays where it's put, at
least on the inside.
On the outside, of course, they used duct tape. ;-P
Cheers!
Rich |
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Watson A.Name - \"Watt Su
Guest
|
| Posted:
Tue Sep 20, 2005 8:04 am Post subject:
Re: PiezoElectric Spark Ignitor |
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"Rich Grise" <rich@example.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.09.19.22.25.02.600758@example.net...
| Quote: | On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 14:02:08 -0700, Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the
Dark
Remover" wrote:
On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 14:02:08 -0700, Watson A.Name - "Watt Sun, the
Dark
How did they, centuries ago, get the foil and stuff to stick to the
inside and outside of those Leyden jars? :-?
Well, keeping in mind that it was probably tin foil, they probably
just formed it to the surface and it just stays where it's put, at
least on the inside.
On the outside, of course, they used duct tape. ;-P
Cheers!
Rich
|
Everyone knows, Rich, that in France and thereabouts, they don't make
tape out of ducks, they _eat_ ducks. ;-) |
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