UV lamp question for ozone generation...
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UV lamp question for ozone generation...
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Bob Masta
Guest
Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 7:24 pm    Post subject: Re: UV lamp question for ozone generation... Reply with quote
On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 12:12:41 -0500, Mark Jones <abuse@127.0.0.1>
wrote:

Quote:
Hmm, I wonder how O3 would do as a regenerator for CuCl etchant...

I've never heard of CuCl as an etchant, but for standard ferric
chloride etchant I've heard of people adding HCl to regenerate it.
I've never tried that, since I wasn't sure how to tell how much to
add (without etching test boards, etc). I assume there must be
an optimum pH involved.

However, there is definitely an optimum concentration for
ferric chloride itself. It often comes too concentrated
as shipped, and hardly etches at all until you dilute it
down to 1.30 specific gravity. Curiously, as the etchant
gets exhausted and action slows down, adding water will
speed it back up again and extend its life. At the lab
where I used to work, they used to do this a couple of
times before declaring it exhausted. After the initial
1.30 adjustement of the new batch, the extra rejuvenations
were done "by eye", so I can't tell you what SG they
brought it back to. I also don't know how much of the
slow-down might have been caused by evaporation in
the etching tanks and trays, so I don't know if the
subsequent water additions were just correcting for
evaporation, or actual chemical exhaustion.

But whatever, ferric chloride is pretty mysterious stuff.
We were all amazed to find that dilution made it more
active.

Best regards,


Bob Masta
dqatechATdaqartaDOTcom

D A Q A R T A
Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis
www.daqarta.com

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John Woodgate
Guest
Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 7:52 pm    Post subject: Re: UV lamp question for ozone generation... Reply with quote
I read in sci.electronics.design that Bob Masta <NoSpam@daqarta.com>
wrote (in <4210a3ed.1507973@news.itd.umich.edu>) about 'UV lamp question
for ozone generation...', on Mon, 14 Feb 2005:

Quote:
I've never heard of CuCl as an etchant,

It's actually cupric chloride, CuCl2. It isn't nearly as well known as
ferric chloride FeCl3, but it is quite widely used in industry.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk
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KILOWATT
Guest
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:33 am    Post subject: Re: UV lamp question for ozone generation... Reply with quote
Polarity needs to alternate. I've found that DC voltage is not very
efficient, as the one coming from flyback xformers. However i think that a
flyback can still be used if it doesn't include the HV diode.

--
Alain(alias:Kilowatt)
Montréal Québec
PS: 1000 excuses for errors or omissions,
i'm a "pure" french canadian! :-)
Come to visit me at: http://kilowatt.camarades.com
(If replying also by e-mail, remove
"no spam" from the adress.)



"peterken" <peter273@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:onQPd.11139$q87.679987@phobos.telenet-ops.be...
Quote:

"KILOWATT" <kilowatt"nospam"@softhome.net> wrote in message
news:ibDOd.25522$Ub4.1071748@news20.bellglobal.com...
Hi everyones...thanks to read. Please check the following link:


http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3872692720&fromMakeTrack=t
rue
With a proper enclosure, circulating fan, a timer circuit, and the item
descibed there, do you think that i would have all the components to
make
an
inexpensive but efficient Ozone generator? TIA

--
Alain(alias:Kilowatt)
Montréal Québec
PS: 1000 excuses for errors or omissions,
i'm a "pure" french canadian! :-)
Come to visit me at: http://kilowatt.camarades.com
(If replying also by e-mail, remove
"no spam" from the adress.)



There's a much simpler way :
- Use any old high voltage generator (strip a TV set or something), make
sure a voltage of minimum 2kV can be attained
- connect ground wire to a 'U' shaped metal bar with inside size of say
1/2"
- fix a very thin wire (preferrable wolfram, 0.001" or smaller) inside the
U-shape at equal distance from any side
(take care for the insulators at the opposite ends, so no flashing can
occur)
- connect this wire to the hot side of the transformer
- turn up the voltage until the wire starts glowing in the dark, a
'sizzing'
sound will be heard
==> ozon as much as you like

Beware, ozon is rather agressive !!



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peterken
Guest
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 6:10 am    Post subject: Re: UV lamp question for ozone generation... Reply with quote
Quote:
"KILOWATT" <kilowatt"nospam"@softhome.net> wrote in message
news:fW7Qd.6514$4I5.268311@news20.bellglobal.com...
Polarity needs to alternate. I've found that DC voltage is not very
efficient, as the one coming from flyback xformers. However i think that a
flyback can still be used if it doesn't include the HV diode.

--
Alain(alias:Kilowatt)
Montréal Québec
PS: 1000 excuses for errors or omissions,
i'm a "pure" french canadian! :-)
Come to visit me at: http://kilowatt.camarades.com
(If replying also by e-mail, remove
"no spam" from the adress.)



Correct, a real ac also doesn't 'foul up' the electrodes as much as dc does
Nevertheless, a positive dc on the wire is most stable but less efficient as
a negative dc
The ac combines both with the added advantage of cleanness

One *might* also use a flyback xformer (without built-in cascade) at it's
oscillation point, thus needing less input voltage and creating a nice sine
wave output
(actually did it more as once, during design of transfert electrodes in a
electrostatic printer)
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Fred Abse
Guest
Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 3:09 am    Post subject: Re: UV lamp question for ozone generation... Reply with quote
On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 20:27:29 +0000, John Woodgate wrote:

Quote:
Yes, prone to 'autonomous energetic disassembly'. (;-)

I once made some copper acetylide at school.

Nitrogen triiodide was good, too...

Amazing what you could get away with back then.

--
Then there's duct tape ...
(Garrison Keillor)
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Lord Garth
Guest
Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 3:17 am    Post subject: Re: UV lamp question for ozone generation... Reply with quote
"Fred Abse" <excretatauris@cerebrumconfus.it> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.02.16.21.03.19.860325@cerebrumconfus.it...
Quote:
On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 20:27:29 +0000, John Woodgate wrote:

Yes, prone to 'autonomous energetic disassembly'. (;-)

I once made some copper acetylide at school.

Nitrogen triiodide was good, too...

Amazing what you could get away with back then.

--
Then there's duct tape ...
(Garrison Keillor)


Hmm, I used to make ammonium tri-iodide in HS...
It worked well on the erasers with the expected pops,
but be careful.
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Bob Masta
Guest
Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 7:53 pm    Post subject: Re: UV lamp question for ozone generation... Reply with quote
On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 21:17:51 GMT, "Lord Garth" <LGarth@Tantalus.net>
wrote:

Quote:

"Fred Abse" <excretatauris@cerebrumconfus.it> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.02.16.21.03.19.860325@cerebrumconfus.it...
On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 20:27:29 +0000, John Woodgate wrote:

Yes, prone to 'autonomous energetic disassembly'. (;-)

I once made some copper acetylide at school.

Nitrogen triiodide was good, too...

Amazing what you could get away with back then.

--
Then there's duct tape ...
(Garrison Keillor)


Hmm, I used to make ammonium tri-iodide in HS...
It worked well on the erasers with the expected pops,
but be careful.


Indeed. On the last day of the semester in HS chemistry,
the instructor allowed my buddy and me to make some
after class. We were having a hard time getting the
precipitate to pass through the filter paper, so we hit
on the bright idea that maybe a little added water
would help wash out the clogs. Only trouble was that
we weren't paying attention to which faucet we used,
and got the "needle jet" by mistake. The jet hit the
funnel and sprayed stuff everywhere: in our hair,
on our shirts, and all over the counter. We wiped
everything up with paper towels and tossed them
in the wastebasket. Then, as things slowly dried
out, the fun began! Combing our hair or just rustling
our shirts was like little cap pistols going off. As
students drifted into the classroom to ask the
teacher about grades, we would sidle over to the
wastebasket and give it a kick... whatever parts
had dried by that moment went off with a BANG!

Highly educational....



Bob Masta
dqatechATdaqartaDOTcom

D A Q A R T A
Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis
www.daqarta.com
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Lord Garth
Guest
Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 8:44 pm    Post subject: Re: UV lamp question for ozone generation... Reply with quote
"Bob Masta" <NoSpam@daqarta.com> wrote in message
news:42149ffb.933311@news.itd.umich.edu...
Quote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 21:17:51 GMT, "Lord Garth" <LGarth@Tantalus.net
wrote:


"Fred Abse" <excretatauris@cerebrumconfus.it> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.02.16.21.03.19.860325@cerebrumconfus.it...
On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 20:27:29 +0000, John Woodgate wrote:

Yes, prone to 'autonomous energetic disassembly'. (;-)

I once made some copper acetylide at school.

Nitrogen triiodide was good, too...

Amazing what you could get away with back then.

--
Then there's duct tape ...
(Garrison Keillor)


Hmm, I used to make ammonium tri-iodide in HS...
It worked well on the erasers with the expected pops,
but be careful.


Indeed. On the last day of the semester in HS chemistry,
the instructor allowed my buddy and me to make some
after class. We were having a hard time getting the
precipitate to pass through the filter paper, so we hit
on the bright idea that maybe a little added water
would help wash out the clogs. Only trouble was that
we weren't paying attention to which faucet we used,
and got the "needle jet" by mistake. The jet hit the
funnel and sprayed stuff everywhere: in our hair,
on our shirts, and all over the counter. We wiped
everything up with paper towels and tossed them
in the wastebasket. Then, as things slowly dried
out, the fun began! Combing our hair or just rustling
our shirts was like little cap pistols going off. As
students drifted into the classroom to ask the
teacher about grades, we would sidle over to the
wastebasket and give it a kick... whatever parts
had dried by that moment went off with a BANG!

Highly educational....



Bob Masta
dqatechATdaqartaDOTcom

We would put it under the desk leg...I wonder if the iodine stains are still
there?
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Rich The Newsgropup Wacko
Guest
Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 3:37 am    Post subject: Re: UV lamp question for ozone generation... Reply with quote
On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 21:09:37 +0000, Fred Abse wrote:

Quote:
On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 20:27:29 +0000, John Woodgate wrote:

Yes, prone to 'autonomous energetic disassembly'. (;-)

I once made some copper acetylide at school.

Nitrogen triiodide was good, too...

Amazing what you could get away with back then.

We used to electrolyze water, and demonstrate "rapid exothermic
recombination". ;-)

I was trying to dissolve some sulfur in some CS2 once, and used
the logic that if you heat up the solute, it helps speed solution.
Until the CS2 reaches its flash point, of course. It's a weird
feeling, being engulfed in a ball of blue flame. =:-O

Cheers!
Rich
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Fred Abse
Guest
Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 12:38 am    Post subject: Re: UV lamp question for ozone generation... Reply with quote
On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 21:37:10 +0000, Rich The Newsgropup Wacko wrote:

Quote:
On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 21:09:37 +0000, Fred Abse wrote:

[quoted text muted]

We used to electrolyze water, and demonstrate "rapid exothermic
recombination". ;-)

I was trying to dissolve some sulfur in some CS2 once, and used the logic
that if you heat up the solute, it helps speed solution. Until the CS2
reaches its flash point, of course. It's a weird feeling, being engulfed
in a ball of blue flame. =:-O


Remember the refractive index experiment, using a hollow prism, filled
with carbon disulfide and monochromatic sodium light from a piece of salt
in a Bunsen flame a few inches away?

Don't spill the CS2!

--
Then there's duct tape ...
(Garrison Keillor)
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Rich Grise
Guest
Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 12:45 am    Post subject: Re: UV lamp question for ozone generation... Reply with quote
On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 18:38:57 +0000, Fred Abse wrote:

Quote:
On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 21:37:10 +0000, Rich The Newsgropup Wacko wrote:

On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 21:09:37 +0000, Fred Abse wrote:

[quoted text muted]

We used to electrolyze water, and demonstrate "rapid exothermic
recombination". ;-)

I was trying to dissolve some sulfur in some CS2 once, and used the logic
that if you heat up the solute, it helps speed solution. Until the CS2
reaches its flash point, of course. It's a weird feeling, being engulfed
in a ball of blue flame. =:-O


Remember the refractive index experiment, using a hollow prism, filled
with carbon disulfide and monochromatic sodium light from a piece of salt
in a Bunsen flame a few inches away?

Don't spill the CS2!

We didn't do that one, but I do remember a refractive index demo of some
liquid that has the same refractive index as glass. The prof. put a small
beaker inside a bigger beaker and poured this liquid into the big beaker,
and when the small beaker got covered up, it disappeared! I don't remember
if that was CS2 or not. )-;

Thanks,
Rich
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John Woodgate
Guest
Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 1:14 am    Post subject: Re: UV lamp question for ozone generation... Reply with quote
I read in sci.electronics.design that Fred Abse <excretatauris@cerebrumc
onfus.it> wrote (in <pan.2005.02.19.12.05.11.703230@cerebrumconfus.it>)
about 'UV lamp question for ozone generation...', on Sat, 19 Feb 2005:

Quote:
Remember the refractive index experiment, using a hollow prism, filled
with carbon disulfide and monochromatic sodium light from a piece of
salt in a Bunsen flame a few inches away?

No.
Quote:

Don't spill the CS2!

No. (;-)

That's what our year 6 chemistry teacher did, over one of us! We tended
to avoid him....
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk
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John Woodgate
Guest
Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 1:19 am    Post subject: Re: UV lamp question for ozone generation... Reply with quote
I read in sci.electronics.design that Rich Grise <richgrise@example.net>
wrote (in <pan.2005.02.19.18.45.24.751954@example.net>) about 'UV lamp
question for ozone generation...', on Sat, 19 Feb 2005:

Quote:
We didn't do that one, but I do remember a refractive index demo of some
liquid that has the same refractive index as glass. The prof. put a
small beaker inside a bigger beaker and poured this liquid into the big
beaker, and when the small beaker got covered up, it disappeared! I
don't remember if that was CS2 or not. )-;

No, in any case it's usually not sufficiently colourless. Spit! I can't
remember what the liquid actually is.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk
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Rich Grise
Guest
Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 2:44 am    Post subject: Re: UV lamp question for ozone generation... Reply with quote
On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 19:19:54 +0000, John Woodgate wrote:

Quote:
I read in sci.electronics.design that Rich Grise <richgrise@example.net
wrote (in <pan.2005.02.19.18.45.24.751954@example.net>) about 'UV lamp
question for ozone generation...', on Sat, 19 Feb 2005:

We didn't do that one, but I do remember a refractive index demo of some
liquid that has the same refractive index as glass. The prof. put a
small beaker inside a bigger beaker and poured this liquid into the big
beaker, and when the small beaker got covered up, it disappeared! I
don't remember if that was CS2 or not. )-;

No, in any case it's usually not sufficiently colourless. Spit! I can't
remember what the liquid actually is.

Imagine my surprise! Wesson oil! =:-O

http://physics.usc.edu/demolab/o/o1/o1_8.html

But, the one I saw, the liquid was colorless, and watery rather than oily.

Cheers!
Rich
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John Woodgate
Guest
Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 3:12 am    Post subject: Re: UV lamp question for ozone generation... Reply with quote
I read in sci.electronics.design that Rich Grise <richgrise@example.net>
wrote (in <pan.2005.02.19.20.44.28.8003@example.net>) about 'UV lamp
question for ozone generation...', on Sat, 19 Feb 2005:
Quote:
Imagine my surprise! Wesson oil! =:-O

http://physics.usc.edu/demolab/o/o1/o1_8.html

Well, there are undoubtedly several liquids that match different types
of glass.
Quote:

But, the one I saw, the liquid was colorless, and watery rather than
oily.

Yes, the one I have in mind is a specific compound, but it's not a
common organic reagent.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk
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